yo mama Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Lawyers are more like sentient guns. They have the ability to sniff $$ and go after it. Agreed. Capitalism is horrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yo mama Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 I'm not saying lawyers and judges have run amok with their power. But, if you take a look at the previous occupations of many of the congressmen and senators, well, there ya go. Good law makers should be trained in the law, much like good doctors should be trained in medicine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caddyman Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 I live in California, and my response to this is: she did? What the f you talking about? A former housekeeper for Meg Whitman claims the Republican governor candidate knew she was an illegal immigrant but continued to employ her, according to her attorney Gloria Allred. Allred said Whitman caused the worker to “feel exploited, disrespected, humiliated, and emotionally and financially abused.” The worker alleges Whitman knew she was here illegally but did not act on it until she decided to run for governor last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 As an interesting and somewhat related aside, Ron Paul was on the Diane Rehm show earlier this week. He, as many of you may know, is in favor of getting many of many regulatory agencies, and expressed the idea that protecting against corporate malfeasance before the fact does not work. What I found terribly interesting was that, under his system, lawsuits would provide the mechanism whereby businesses that participated in fraud/illegality would be punished. well, our system IS set up to be more regulated through the courts than through administrative bureaucracies, at least relative to other developed nations. in a lot of ways, this is a good thing from a libertarian perspective like ron paul's. the gripe I think paul, and a lot of other people have with lawyers is their disproportionate influence as a lobbying special interest. a lot of areas where the law could be streamlined and simplified, it isn't, because doing so would mean less chum in the water for the sharks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbpfan1231 Posted May 6, 2011 Author Share Posted May 6, 2011 I live in California, and my response to this is: she did? What the f you talking about? I did not say that the influence was right or wrong. You serioulsy don't think the lawyering up with Allred did not have an influence on that election. Did the numbers for Whitman not tank soon after Allred press conference? That story was pretty big news - how could it not influence the election??? I could be wrong but it sure seems like Allred's news conference took a toll on Whitman's poll numbers???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpwallace49 Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 I did not say that the influence was right or wrong. You serioulsy don't think the lawyering up with Allred did not have an influence on that election. Did the numbers for Whitman not tank soon after Allred press conference? That story was pretty big news - how could it not influence the election??? I could be wrong but it sure seems like Allred's news conference took a toll on Whitman's poll numbers???? Then maybe she shouldnt hire illegals ? Problem solved . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbpfan1231 Posted May 6, 2011 Author Share Posted May 6, 2011 Then maybe she shouldnt hire illegals ? Problem solved . . Maybe true - that is exactly why I said the influence could be right or wrong. I am not arguing Whitman was right or wrong with what she did - all I am saying is that the fact that Gloria Allred was involved had an influence on that election. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbpfan1231 Posted May 6, 2011 Author Share Posted May 6, 2011 Perhaps its not that lawyers and judges are gaining power, but that Americans are having more disputes (which they themselves are unwilling or unable to resolve themselves.) Good point - that did not cross my mind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpwallace49 Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Maybe true - that is exactly why I said the influence could be right or wrong. I am not arguing Whitman was right or wrong with what she did - all I am saying is that the fact that Gloria Allred was involved had an influence on that election. Dude it is cause and effect . . .Whitman CAUSED the lawyers to get involved by her behavior . . . . it wasnt like the lawyers did this for fun. You aregue about how judges and lawyers have power . . . when cases are brought to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furd Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 (edited) So does having a doctorate mean you are not a doctor? Counseler, I would stipulate that having a law degree does in fact make you a lawyer. However it is possible to be a lawyer without actively practicing law. I disagree. I recognize that you could comb through a variety of references and pick a definition that supports your position. This one sounds about right to me [although many lawyers don't see the inside of a courtroom after they are sworn in]: One whose profession is to give legal advice and assistance to clients and represent them in court or in other legal matters. IMO, having a law degree it means that you graduated from a law school. You get one of those, then you get to take a bar exam. You pass one of those, you're a lot closer to being a lawyer. Trust me (and I think Beaumont and yo mama will back me up on this) law school provides little or no instruction about actually practicing law. You get that elsewhere, such as through a law clerk/summer associate position or internship. Edited May 6, 2011 by Furd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEC=UGA Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 I disagree. I recognize that you could comb through a variety of references a pick a definition that supports your position. This one sounds about right to me [although many lawyers don't see the inside of a courtroom after they are sworn in]: IMO, having a law degree it means that you graduated from a law school. You get one of those, then you get to take a bar exam. You pass one of those, you're a lot closer to being a lawyer. Trust me (and I think Beaumont and yo mama will back me up on this) law school provides little or no instruction about actually practicing law. You get that elsewhere, such as through a law clerk position or summer internship. Or 40 to life.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbpfan1231 Posted May 6, 2011 Author Share Posted May 6, 2011 I disagree. I recognize that you could comb through a variety of references a pick a definition that supports your position. This one sounds about right to me [although many lawyers don't see the inside of a courtroom after they are sworn in]: IMO, having a law degree it means that you graduated from a law school. You get one of those, then you get to take a bar exam. You pass one of those, you're a lot closer to being a lawyer. Trust me (and I think Beaumont and yo mama will back me up on this) law school provides little or no instruction about actually practicing law. You get that elsewhere, such as through a law clerk position or summer internship. This I agree with - can you now sue BP for saying someting wrong about your profession? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 well, our system IS set up to be more regulated through the courts than through administrative bureaucracies, at least relative to other developed nations. in a lot of ways, this is a good thing from a libertarian perspective like ron paul's. the gripe I think paul, and a lot of other people have with lawyers is their disproportionate influence as a lobbying special interest. a lot of areas where the law could be streamlined and simplified, it isn't, because doing so would mean less chum in the water for the sharks. This is true and one prime example is taxation. Resistance to tax reform / simplification is led by lawyers and accounting companies for no better reason than it would reduce the need for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEC=UGA Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 This is true and one prime example is taxation. Resistance to tax reform / simplification is led by lawyers and accounting companies for no better reason than it would reduce the need for them. Dude it DRIVES ME CRAZY whenever you guys bring up taxes in here!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpwallace49 Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 IMO, having a law degree it means that you graduated from a law school. You get one of those, then you get to take a bar exam. You pass one of those, you're a lot closer to being a lawyer. Trust me (and I think Beaumont and yo mama will back me up on this) law school provides little or no instruction about actually practicing law. You get that elsewhere, such as through a law clerk/summer associate position or internship. Hmm . . considering in some states if you graduate from a state school you donot have to take the bar exam, do they count as lawyers? I still refer back to the doctorate comparison. if you get a JD . . which is the equivalent of a MD. and MD means you are a doctor, even if you dont practice medicine, you are still a doctor. a JD means you are a lawyer, even if you dont practice law. You therefore can dispense legal advice and represent them legally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Having a law degree doesn't mean that you're a lawyer. Good law makers should be trained in the law hmm, so all the lawyer-politicians are "trained in the law" (good thing), but they're not "lawyers" (bad thing). heads I win, tails you lose! no wonder these guys are so good at convincing people to vote for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpwallace49 Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Trust me (and I think Beaumont and yo mama will back me up on this) law school provides little or no instruction about actually practicing law. You get that elsewhere, such as through a law clerk/summer associate position or internship. I also disagree here . . there are many "mock trial" classes where you hone your skills to practice law. That is akin to saying you graduate from medical school yet never practiced on a cadaver for gross anatomy. law clerking (at least 1st year) and internships are glorified paralegal research work for the most part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 I also disagree here . . there are many "mock trial" classes where you hone your skills to practice law. That is akin to saying you graduate from medical school yet never practiced on a cadaver for gross anatomy. law clerking (at least 1st year) and internships are glorified paralegal research work for the most part. I would say Furd is mostly right. most of practicing law is day to day experiential stuff they can't really teach you in law school. what they CAN teach you in law school is, 1) what the law is, and 2) how to "think like a lawyer", i.e., how to lie convincingly and with a clean conscience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yo mama Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 hmm, so all the lawyer-politicians are "trained in the law" (good thing), but they're not "lawyers" (bad thing). heads I win, tails you lose! no wonder these guys are so good at convincing people to vote for them. Says the guy who didn't finish law school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pope Flick Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 I did not say that the influence was right or wrong. You serioulsy don't think the lawyering up with Allred did not have an influence on that election. Did the numbers for Whitman not tank soon after Allred press conference? That story was pretty big news - how could it not influence the election??? I could be wrong but it sure seems like Allred's news conference took a toll on Whitman's poll numbers???? You're giving it far, far too much credit. Besides, it was what Whitman did not any lawyer that ultimately got her in trouble regarding this. But in the end she was going against Brown and his establishment that has been in place for over 30 years. Plus most Americans don't like millionaires who think they can buy a higher office. You want to blame Allred for a woman who's never held public office prior to running for governor losing a race? Whatever, that's a poor example to your "theory" and ignores many other factors that caused her to lose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furd Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 I also disagree here . . there are many "mock trial" classes where you hone your skills to practice law. That is akin to saying you graduate from medical school yet never practiced on a cadaver for gross anatomy. I can't say that I really understand what you are trying to say. Although that doesn't stop me from suspecting that you don't know what you are talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpwallace49 Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 I can't say that I really understand what you are trying to say. Although that doesn't stop me from suspecting that you don't know what you are talking about. How do you define this. Trust me (and I think Beaumont and yo mama will back me up on this) law school provides little or no instruction about actually practicing law. You get that elsewhere, such as through a law clerk/summer associate position or internship I am really looking forward what you define as little to no instruction about practicing law" TIA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpwallace49 Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 furd . . . isnt an internship/clerkship no different than a residency program for a doctor? It doesnt change the fact that they are in fact . . . . DOCTORS. Just like a law degree would classify you as a lawyer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furd Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 I am really looking forward what you define as little to no instruction about practicing law" TIA furd . . . isnt an internship/clerkship no different than a residency program for a doctor? It doesnt change the fact that they are in fact . . . . DOCTORS. Just like a law degree would classify you as a lawyer. I'll try to be brief. I'm a lawyer. People (called clients) come to me for a variety of problems, for which (I hope) they pay me. I represent them. I have a duty to them . If I make a mistake, I may have to answer to them. Its my livelihood. Its called the practice of law. A policitican with a law degree is a politician. A meat cutter with a law degree is meat cutter. A law degree is merely an opening to becoming a lawyer. One still has to pass a bar exam. One still has to become admitted to the bar. And then there is the thing about practicing. If your only exposure to the law was recieved in law school, you would have no real idea of how to practice law. You probably have little or no understanding of the local court rules or laws unique to the state in which the school is located. No understanding as to how the local courts work. No idea of how to set up a practice. No idea as to how to bill clients. Zip. A person with a medical degree isn't a doctor. They are just getting started. After getting the degree, they have an internship. They have residency. They need to get a license. And, of course, they must practice. There is little or no similarlty between/among a summer associates or law clerk position and an medical internship/residency. The former are voluntary part-time, often short term positions, while the latter are mandatory full time positions (4 years required). I guess that it boils down to this: If you want to call someone with a law degree that doesn't practice law a lawyer, go right ahead. It sure doesn't make any sense to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 be all that as it may....what percentage of politicians with law degrees never practiced law? I'd bet the number is fairly slim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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