whyme23 Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 Go back and read the post. He said, where Hightower was being drafted, he had upside, but now that he's going in the 4th he doesn't. And that, Benson or Addai picked 1 and 2 rounds later than Hightower did, by virtue of where they were going. That is not to say that one prefers those two players to Hightower all things being equal (though that could certainly be the case), but rather that you'll gladly take them a round or two later than it seems like Hightower's new price dictates. I mean, one or two rounds at that stage in the draft is still a pretty big deal. That's really it. And this has nothing to do with anyone's cred around here and everything to do with the fact that he's making perfect sense in this case. I understand what you're saying....but he predicted Addai and Benson will easily outscore Hightower by a wide margin. To me that makes no sense and is baseless. If you want to argue their value based on draft position and say Addai or Benson are better choices then I fully respect that point. That wasn't what he said at all. To say they are both WAY better than Hightower and will easily outscore him, that's a bit of a stretch. To me they are fairly equal risk-wise and Hightower has more upside which warrants taking him a few picks earlier. You can't say one of those 3 will easily outscore the other based on anything but a hunch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEC=UGA Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 Yeah Shanahan hasn't produced any 1,000 yard backs you're right, Terrell Davis sucked. C'mon man Mike Anderson and Olandis Gary were scrubs and rushed for over 1,000 yards in his system. Hightower is entering his 4th season in the league how is that nothing but downside? He had 10 rushing TDs his rookie year and has improved his YPC every season. He continues to get better and should have his best season yet this year. He's always shared time with other backs that doesn't mean he can't be productive. This is the first time he is the #1 RB, the way I see it there is nothing but upside. Stop being a hater and come up with a real argument. The next time you talk smack about a former UGA RB, I'm gonna beat you silly... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 I understand what you're saying....but he predicted Addai and Benson will easily outscore Hightower by a wide margin. No he didn't. At least nowhere near as emphatically as you're claiming. Here's a tip: Exaggerating what the person you're debating said makes it much easier to make your point, but it doesn't really hold up when one can easily go back and look it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whyme23 Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 The next time you talk smack about a former UGA RB, I'm gonna beat you silly... Haha I was being sarcastic...sorry guess that didn't come across. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delusions of grandeur Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 I understand what you're saying....but he predicted Addai and Benson will easily outscore Hightower by a wide margin. To me that makes no sense and is baseless. If you want to argue their value based on draft position and say Addai or Benson are better choices then I fully respect that point. That wasn't what he said at all. To say they are both WAY better than Hightower and will easily outscore him, that's a bit of a stretch. To me they are fairly equal risk-wise and Hightower has more upside which warrants taking him a few picks earlier. You can't say one of those 3 will easily outscore the other based on anything but a hunch. Try reading that again, because your argument is starting to sound alot more baseless. I'd say it is a bold prediction to say any Shanahan back would outscore either of those guys. Hightower HAD upside where he was being drafted. Now he has nothing but downside. Horrible pick in the 4th in my less than humble opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delusions of grandeur Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 (edited) Here's a tip: Exaggerating what the person you're debating said makes it much easier to make your point, but it doesn't really hold up when one can easily go back and look it up. I disagree :broncobilly: Edited August 29, 2011 by delusions of granduer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Ernie McCracken Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 Right, the specific question was regarding a 'TOP 5' player. If I think a guy is a top 5 at his position, I will draft him several rounds early EVERY SINGLE TIME without hesitation. Exceptional people don't follow the same laws or rules that everyone else does - that's why we're exceptional. That still doesn't equate to me not trying to find value in late rounds. For being a 'scientist' you sure make large un-verifiable leaps from A to Z. I'm curious Brentastic if you fellow league members on these boards. I'm not sure of Hightower should be drafted as RB2 or RB3 but if I was as high on him as you are, I'd try to mask my enthusiasm and try to steal him a bit later than I feel he's values and a bit before his ADP or general trend. He's certainly on my list along with Helu as the O-line has looked solid. When the line is blocking well the backside pusuers are ideally on the ground and you saw that consistently against Baltimore. The key for will be balancing upside and value. Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whyme23 Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 (edited) Try reading that again, because your argument is starting to sound alot more baseless. DIRECT QUOTE "And they will both outscore Hightower this year, probably by a wide margin, just like Tolbert and several others drafted after Timmy at this point. " Maybe YOU should go back and read again....seems pretty clear to me he was saying both backs will without a doubt be better (nothing based on draft position or value). Nothing exaggerated there. Edited August 29, 2011 by whyme23 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rattsass Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 All valid points, rattass just throws out statements and can't back any of them up so it's nice to see real football knowledge. I'm sorry, sometimes I give people here more credit than due. I thought it was common knowledge that Hightower was a fumbler and Shanny has the quick hook. I mean ,some things are so engrained in my head I just assume others know the facts as well. Will compensate in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delfamdelfam Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 No he didn't. At least nowhere near as emphatically as you're claiming. Here's a tip: Exaggerating what the person you're debating said makes it much easier to make your point, but it doesn't really hold up when one can easily go back and look it up. how is it over exaggerating, here is the quote: "And they will both outscore Hightower this year, probably by a wide margin, just like Tolbert and several others drafted after Timmy at this point. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delusions of grandeur Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 Good lord I have to stop responding to these trolls... You win dude, Hightower is going to be the next Clinton Portis, and you should draft him in the 2nd or 3rd to make sure you get him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 how is it over exaggerating, here is the quote:"And they will both outscore Hightower this year, probably by a wide margin, just like Tolbert and several others drafted after Timmy at this point. " I don't read that as "will easily outscore by a wide margin". He's not even saying they "easily" outscore them, let alone easily by a large margin. Whatever, I've spent enough time defending something I didn't even say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whyme23 Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 Good lord I have to stop responding to these trolls... You win dude, Hightower is going to be the next Clinton Portis, and you should draft him in the 2nd or 3rd to make sure you get him. Yeah that's what I thought, made you look foolish for calling me out and being completely wrong. Learn to read next time buddy. Never said he would be the next Portis, just that he has more upside than Addai and Benson and is worth taking ahead of them. To me he is a really solid #3 RB and possibly a decent/low end #2. I find it hard to believe Addai and Benson will probably outscore him by a wide margin but go ahead and take them ahead of Hightower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whyme23 Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 I don't read that as "will easily outscore by a wide margin". He's not even saying they "easily" outscore them, let alone easily by a large margin. Whatever, I've spent enough time defending something I didn't even say. He said "they will both outscore Hightower this year".....to me that sounds like he is really confident they will. To go on to say they will probably outscore him "by a wide margin" further emphasized the point. But I guess everybody interprets things differently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rattsass Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 (edited) Wow, people are REALLY gettting pumped about this guy. They would lay down their lives for Hightower if necessary to defend his honor. I've been wrong plenty, but I can't imagine I will ever be crucified for advising against drafting Hightower in the 4th round, regardless of what history unfurls before us this season. This ain't my first rodeo whyme. Edited August 29, 2011 by rattsass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delusions of grandeur Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 Yeah that's what I thought, made you look foolish for calling me out and being completely wrong. Learn to read next time buddy. Enjoy your stay at the Huddle. Too bad you probably won't be with us for very long at this rate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whyme23 Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 Wow, people are REALLY gettting pumped about this guy. They would lay down their lives for Hightower if necessary to defend his honor. I've been wrong plenty, but I can't imagine I will ever be crucified for advising against drafting Hightower in the 4th round, regardless of what history unfurls before us this season. This ain't my first rodeo whyme. I was never arguing that taking Hightower in the 4th was a good idea. My whole issue was based on you stating Addai and Benson would outscore him this season like it was an unquestioned fact. For you to go on to say they will probably outscore him by a wide margin is nothing more than a shot in the dark. I was not disputing your "value/draft position" argument at all. I took Hightower in the 6th round as my #3 RB, I would not have taken him in the 4th. Having said that I think he has more value than Benson and Addai but we can agree to disagree on that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rattsass Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 I was never arguing that taking Hightower in the 4th was a good idea. My whole issue was based on you stating Addai and Benson would outscore him this season like it was an unquestioned fact. For you to go on to say they will probably outscore him by a wide margin is nothing more than a shot in the dark. I was not disputing your "value/draft position" argument at all. I took Hightower in the 6th round as my #3 RB, I would not have taken him in the 4th. Having said that I think he has more value than Benson and Addai but we can agree to disagree on that one. Okay, you want some rationale? Hightower's upside is probably no more than either of the guys I mentioned. Yes? I mean, he isn't an every down back. But with the uncertainty concerning Hightower (you can convince yourself the situation is settled and Hightower is going to get 80% of the carries but we don't know that) the downside with Hightower is TREMENDOUS. If you are taking a shot with Hightower in that area, you probably are going to be depending on him to fill your RB2. You think he has #1 upside but he does not. He does however have the risk of losing carries to Torain who has been conveniently injured throughout the preseason and the rookie Helu. Shanny drafted Helu. And he brought Torain with him when he came to Washington. And if Hightower puts it on the carpet twice in a game (and he will) he will be done for the day. Or the month. Or the year. Russian roulette. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whyme23 Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 Okay, you want some rationale? Hightower's upside is probably no more than either of the guys I mentioned. Yes? I mean, he isn't an every down back. But with the uncertainty concerning Hightower (you can convince yourself the situation is settled and Hightower is going to get 80% of the carries but we don't know that) the downside with Hightower is TREMENDOUS. If you are taking a shot with Hightower in that area, you probably are going to be depending on him to fill your RB2. You think he has #1 upside but he does not. He does however have the risk of losing carries to Torain who has been conveniently injured throughout the preseason and the rookie Helu. Shanny drafted Helu. And he brought Torain with him when he came to Washington. And if Hightower puts it on the carpet twice in a game (and he will) he will be done for the day. Or the month. Or the year. Russian roulette. I know he won't get 80% of the carries, nobody really does anymore. He will get the majority of the carries on a good running team though. He has the edge over Helu because he can pass block and I wouldn't expect Torain to stay healthy. To me that is definitely worth a flyer for your #3 RB. The fumbles issue is probably the biggest concern but if he can control that he has the potential to be a good pick. Again, not a 4th rounder I agree but if he falls and you have the choice between him, Addai and Benson to me it's a no brainer. Addai and Benson are clearly past their prime. Hightower is just entering his....I'll go with the upside pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rattsass Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 I know he won't get 80% of the carries, nobody really does anymore. He will get the majority of the carries on a good running team though. He has the edge over Helu because he can pass block and I wouldn't expect Torain to stay healthy. To me that is definitely worth a flyer for your #3 RB. The fumbles issue is probably the biggest concern but if he can control that he has the potential to be a good pick. Again, not a 4th rounder I agree but if he falls and you have the choice between him, Addai and Benson to me it's a no brainer. Addai and Benson are clearly past their prime. Hightower is just entering his....I'll go with the upside pick. It may be a no-brainer if it fits into ones particular draft strategy I suppose. I drafted those guys when I did because I had assembled a killer WR corps and I didn't need any "funny business" from my RBs. I wasn't looking for upside, I was looking for stability. Every pick in a draft doesn't necessarily have to be an upside pick. You have to pick your spots. I would have been willing to roll with Hightower where he started in the 7th round or later. That's where he belongs. He doesn't belong in the 4th round but I couldn't be more thrilled personally because that just facilitates my own draft plan. So it's all good. Someone has to pay all that prize money I am going to win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rattsass Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 ...and furthermore, if we are talking upside? Cedric Benson has been a top 20 back even in PPR leagues over the last 2 years. Addai was ranked #7 in '09. Manning has a bad neck. Are they really going to put the inexperienced rook in there to block for him? Benson and Addai drafted out of the top 20 backs this year. Maybe I am going to the well one too many times. Maybe not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whyme23 Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 It may be a no-brainer if it fits into ones particular draft strategy I suppose. I drafted those guys when I did because I had assembled a killer WR corps and I didn't need any "funny business" from my RBs. I wasn't looking for upside, I was looking for stability. Every pick in a draft doesn't necessarily have to be an upside pick. You have to pick your spots. I would have been willing to roll with Hightower where he started in the 7th round or later. That's where he belongs. He doesn't belong in the 4th round but I couldn't be more thrilled personally because that just facilitates my own draft plan. So it's all good. Someone has to pay all that prize money I am going to win. Agreed, all depends on your strategy. In a 12 team league I'll take him in the mid-6th round every time though, I was looking for more upside in that spot given my team. Basically he is my primary flex option and can serve as a solid bye week replacement. I wouldn't take him as my RB2 but I think he is a higher end RB3 in a 12-teamer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whyme23 Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 (edited) ...and furthermore, if we are talking upside? Cedric Benson has been a top 20 back even in PPR leagues over the last 2 years. Addai was ranked #7 in '09. Manning has a bad neck. Are they really going to put the inexperienced rook in there to block for him? Benson and Addai drafted out of the top 20 backs this year. Maybe I am going to the well one too many times. Maybe not. Addai was hurt almost the entire season last year and has been injury prone for awhile now, he has exactly 2 runs in his entire career of 30 yards or more. Not much upside there. Benson on the other has been more consistent. I think the Bengals will be the worst team in football though and don't expect much out of that offense with a rookie QB and WR (plus 4 games against Pitt and Balt isn't very favorable). I'll admit the Redskins probably won't be very good either but Shanahan will find a way to run the ball and whoever gets the most carries will have a productive season. Guess it depends on your risk tolerance and who fits best in your team. Edited August 29, 2011 by whyme23 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTSuper7 Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 (edited) This thread is going to be a fantastic thread to bump about a month into the season when Hightower is either: A. Averaging over 100 total yards and 1 TD through 4 games. or B. Riding pine after fumbling twice in week 2. Edited August 29, 2011 by MTSuper7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whyme23 Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 (edited) Yeah Benson was just sentenced to 20 days in jail too, guess he's spending the bye week with Bubba. Edited August 29, 2011 by whyme23 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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