detlef Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 It's about freaking time. Who knows what kind of soldier a kid will be. Who knows whether they'll crack under situations that most of us are fortunate that we will never have to endure. Maybe they just wanted to serve their country but could never come to grips with killing another person. But is all the macho BS worth denying his/her family a simple letter of condolence? That's shameful and I'm glad someone had enough dignity to put an end to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 Suicides are taking our soldiers just as fast as IEDs if not faster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrunt Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 It's about freaking time. Who knows what kind of soldier a kid will be. Who knows whether they'll crack under situations that most of us are fortunate that we will never have to endure. Maybe they just wanted to serve their country but could never come to grips with killing another person. But is all the macho BS worth denying his/her family a simple letter of condolence? That's shameful and I'm glad someone had enough dignity to put an end to it. Suicides do unfortunately happen a lot in the military. It rarely has anything to do with not being able to come to grips with killing another person, at least not in the Marines.. If that were case, then it doesn't explain why suicides occur even after veterans return home. The amount of stress military veterans endure in a combat tour -- for such an extended amount of time 24/7 -- is more than some people can handle. It's difficult for me to explain how that stress impacts us in the miliary; we all react to it differently. That's likely why Marine Corps recruit training is so difficult. Training the mind and body to deal with such pressure is a daunting task. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duchess Jack Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 Suicides do unfortunately happen a lot in the military. It rarely has anything to do with not being able to come to grips with killing another person, at least not in the Marines.. If that were case, then it doesn't explain why suicides occur even after veterans return home. I don't understand - are you suggesting that the fact that a soldier might have killed somebody goes away once they get home, are out of a war zone and have time to think about it? I must be misreading your point here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrunt Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 I don't understand - are you suggesting that the fact that a soldier might have killed somebody goes away once they get home, are out of a war zone and have time to think about it? I must be misreading your point here. What about the soldiers who commit suicide that haven't killed anyone? Granted, there might be a small percentage of suicides that are a result of this - but I'm willing to suggest most are not. I'm relating the stress to the suicides, not the act doing your job. Have you read any studies about the affects of long-term exposure to extremely high stress environments on the human brain? That's where things interesting, but in a not so positive way... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted September 30, 2011 Author Share Posted September 30, 2011 What about the soldiers who commit suicide that haven't killed anyone? Granted, there might be a small percentage of suicides that are a result of this - but I'm willing to suggest most are not. I'm relating the stress to the suicides, not the act doing your job. Have you read any studies about the affects of long-term exposure to extremely high stress environments on the human brain? That's where things interesting, but in a not so positive way... For the record, I was just throwing out reasons at random. Not implying that was the main reason or anything. To avoid turning this into an argument about why, specifically, soldiers kill themselves, I will say that I'm sure there are many reasons and I don't pretend to know what is the most common one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duchess Jack Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 What about the soldiers who commit suicide that haven't killed anyone? Granted, there might be a small percentage of suicides that are a result of this - but I'm willing to suggest most are not. I'm relating the stress to the suicides, not the act doing your job. Have you read any studies about the affects of long-term exposure to extremely high stress environments on the human brain? That's where things interesting, but in a not so positive way... No I haven't but I can certainly buy into just about anything that being in a war-zone for a long period of time might do to a person mentally. I know - that unless I was defending my home turf - that I would have a hard time dealing with it. I mean, I guess I would have a hard time dealing with it any way, but you get what I mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrunt Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 For the record, I was just throwing out reasons at random. Not implying that was the main reason or anything. To avoid turning this into an argument about why, specifically, soldiers kill themselves, I will say that I'm sure there are many reasons and I don't pretend to know what is the most common one. I don't want to make it an argument either; I think you're on the right track as there are probably numerous reasons why these happen. It's an unfortunate tragedy, and I wish there was an easy solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted September 30, 2011 Author Share Posted September 30, 2011 I'm just deeply saddened by the fact that we've had a policy of not showing the families the courtesy of a letter of condolence. Such a small gesture, and the kid did die in service of his/her country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrunt Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 No I haven't but I can certainly buy into just about anything that being in a war-zone for a long period of time might do to a person mentally. I know - that unless I was defending my home turf - that I would have a hard time dealing with it. I mean, I guess I would have a hard time dealing with it any way, but you get what I mean. Trust me - even if in the situation having to defend your own home turf, the stress of combat doesn't change based on where you are. You would still have a hard time dealing with it, whichever or wherever the situation it might be. It's not like in sports where 'home field' offers an advantage to being less stressful. Think of it this way, which of these two scenarios would be stressful: overcoming a situation where you must use your 2nd amendment rights to protect your home from an invasion, or conducting house-to-house operations in urban warfare? To make both scenarios even in time under stress, we could assume both are long-term happenings, and you would be protecting yourself not just from a home invasion but a long-term war on our own turf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeeR Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 Note there are still some exclusions about sending letters for military members. Kind of a slippery slope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrunt Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 I'm just deeply saddened by the fact that we've had a policy of not showing the families the courtesy of a letter of condolence. Such a small gesture, and the kid did die in service of his/her country. I wonder if this study had anything to do with the recent change of policy: In 2009, "the U.S. Army and the National Institute of Mental Health have announced a partnership to study suicide and mental health among those in the Army. The $50 million study will be the largest-ever on the subject." Although there is a lot of waste and fraud in government spending on various "studies," this might be a situation where the $50 million spent made a positive impact -- if in fact results from the study are one of the many the reasons for changing the policy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duchess Jack Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 Trust me - even if in the situation having to defend your own home turf, the stress of combat doesn't change based on where you are. You would still have a hard time dealing with it, whichever or wherever the situation it might be. It's not like in sports where 'home field' offers an advantage to being less stressful. I think that I mentioned that I'd have a hard time dealing either way. Not that it matters. I just think that there would be less guilt, more conviction and more understanding of who is good and who is bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrunt Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 (edited) I think that I mentioned that I'd have a hard time dealing either way. Not that it matters. I just think that there would be less guilt, more conviction and more understanding of who is good and who is bad. It's not like the military gets sent to a country and starts blasting everyone in site. America is not an imperialist nation - imperialist nations don't invade a country, make it secure, and then give it back to its citizens in the form of a more civilized democracy. Imperialist nations invade, takeover and likely wipeout whoever they are invading without any intention of giving the land or freedoms back. But this is probably where we could begin arguing, so I'll end it there. The point is, it's pretty obvious who is good and who is bad. The bad people have weapons and/or are aiming guns at you and want to kill you, the good guys are standing, sitting or laying next to you trying to make the bad person (enemy) die for their country and not the other way around. Edited September 30, 2011 by TheGrunt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duchess Jack Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 (edited) But this is probably where we could begin arguing, so I'll end it there. '' I understand what you are getting at but there is a big difference in defending your home from invaders and going to somebody else's home, where the people you are shooting at the the people you are looking to help all look the same. There is also something to fighting because your government tells you to and fighting to protect you family. I understand that our army goes to war to protect America, but that is slightly different. For all the left and right BS that is always going on around here, I think that we can all agree that the government sucks and is full of scumbags and if they are giving the orders to fight.... well..... eta: sorry for the hijacking detlef Edited September 30, 2011 by Duchess Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrunt Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 '' I understand what you are getting at but there is a big difference in defending your home from invaders and going to somebody else's home, where the people you are shooting at the the people you are looking to help all look the same. There is also something to fighting because your government tells you to and fighting to protect you family. I understand that our army goes to war to protect America, but that is slightly different. For all the left and right BS that is always going on around here, I think that we can all agree that the government sucks and is full of scumbags and if they are giving the orders to fight.... well..... eta: sorry for the hijacking detlef In some cases, you are definitely right. It's politicians that decide who and when we go to war with, and the military -- as it should -- follows orders. It's part of the job. I like to think that politicians are not making these decisions out of malice intent; no sane person would send the U.S. Military to war simply because they want to. But yeah, I also think government accountability is lost... Politicians can make the dumbest decisions that lose lives, money, and sometimes a country without any repercussions for bad choices. This goes for both corrupt democrats and republicans - I'm not sure why America has allowed such a lack of accountability by our politicians for so many decades. We just look the other way, forget about it, and wait for media reports on the next I'll-informed decision to be released. That is, if the media even reports on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 very glad to hear the families will get letters now:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 I think this will help families cope a little with their loss. I expect the letter to read about how much the government appreciates each person's service and details on burial and any compensation they will receive, whether that is the soldier's last check or life insurance, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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