Scott Walker gets mic checked

[Pope Flick]

Let's see here...

 

Video uploaded by IOccupyFor

 

At :55 they mention Insulted the 99%

 

At 1:13 they mention the billionaire Koch Brothers

 

At 1:25 mention Corporations and bought off politicians (if this is about unions then I assume unions don't have anything to do with buying off politicians??)

 

At 2:34 they mention the arrest of 300 people at occupy Chicago

 

At 3:08 they mention the benefit of the 1%

 

nope nothing at all to do with OWS - why would anyone think that????

 

Half your exampleas are not relevant. And this fight with Walker was going on for months before OwS was even a thought. So no, working in a couple of catchy current slogans to their chants does not make this an OWS event.

[gbpfan1231]

Half your exampleas are not relevant. And this fight with Walker was going on for months before OwS was even a thought. So no, working in a couple of catchy current slogans to their chants does not make this an OWS event.

Umm slow much?

 

I never said it was a OWS event - I don't think anybody did.

 

you said it had nothing to do with OWS - you even BP'd it with all caps.

 

So I guess where they actually mention Occupy Chicago then that means it has NOTHING to do with OWS?????

[WaterMan]

I didn't see any hippies or Guy Fawkes masks there or signs.

 

Looks like a union protest to me, especially the "union busting" chant.

[bpwallace49]

"The overwhelming number" of school districts reported their staff stayed the same or grew after the 2011-’13 state budget

Scott Walker on Tuesday, November 15th, 2011 in a radio interview

 

Walker says ‘overwhelming number’ of Wisconsin school districts’ staffs grew or stayed the same after 2011-2013 state budget

 

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As opponents push to recall him, Gov. Scott Walker is working to douse criticism of major cuts in school aid approved in his 2011-2013 budget.

 

In the wake of media coverage of a survey of school districts that showed a net drop of 3,400 education staff spread across more than 350 local districts, he laid out his own view of the numbers. Not every district lost staff, but the cumulative effect was a 5 percent reduction overall.

 

On that point, Walker noted a majority of staff cuts came from just a few large urban districts -- including ones that couldn’t or didn’t take advantage of the change that eliminated collective bargaining with teachers’ unions over health and pension costs. Critics responded that those few districts educate a big share of public school kids.

 

Taking on the survey, Walker went further in a Nov. 15, 2011, interview on WTMJ-AM (620). Host Charlie Sykes asked Walker if his budget had resulted in "significant educational cutbacks in school districts across the state."

 

Walker responded: "No. This is myth vs. reality. You saw a rush to judgment when some folks put that information out. The media wanted to believe that … at least the more liberal biased media wanted to believe that so they immediately assumed it was true."

 

He concluded: "If you actually look at this, it shows just the opposite. It shows the overwhelming number of districts saw that staffing was the same or greater, that there were the same or fewer cuts than before, and in the few areas where they did see significant reductions in staffing, it was places like Milwaukee, Kenosha and Janesville..."

 

We’re working on several statements related to the survey.

 

Here’s our question for today: Did the survey -- done by the Wisconsin Association of School District Administrators and analyzed by the state Department of Public Instruction -- show the "overwhelming number of districts" escaped a drop in staff?

 

Let’s start with this note: Walker doesn’t dispute the data in the survey filled out by more than 80% of public school districts -- just the way it was used. In fact, he uses the same data to make opposing points.

 

In the survey, "staff" referred not only to teachers, but to teachers aides, support staff and administrators.

 

Walker argues the raw data actually show a large number of districts where more new staff was hired than was laid off or dismissed by contract non-renewal.

 

We crunched the numbers and he’s right by that method of accounting: More than eight in 10 districts surveyed showed no net loss of staff, and most had gains.

 

There’s a big footnote, however.

 

You won’t find Walker’s numbers cited in the survey’s summary, because the survey calculated the staffing changes using a number -- a critical one -- Walker leaves out: retirements of staff.

 

In all, more than 4,700 school employees retired in the last year -- a level many school officials attribute to Walker’s own budget’s push to force them to pay more for pensions and health care.

 

For each district, the survey arrived at a staff loss or gain by adding up all the staff departures (retirements, layoffs, contract non-renewals) and subtracting the new hires.

 

The survey showed Racine schools, for instance, reported a net drop of 100 staff, mostly teachers aides. But by Walker’s method, Racine shows a net gain of 14, according to our calculations.

 

The reason for the difference: Walker doesn’t count the 114 retirements in the district.

 

When we analyzed the survey results using the complete statistics used to calculate the staff change, we found the opposite of Walker’s conclusion: Three out of four districts reported a net loss of staff, including all four categories of staff.

 

A reduction in teachers drove that result: Nearly two out of three districts (63 percent) reported a net loss of teachers. That trend was much less pronounced in the other categories: for teachers aides, 38 percent of districts saw reductions, we found. For support staff, 31 percent saw a loss. For administrators, 21 percent reported a loss.

 

Walker spokesman Cullen Werwie said the governor excluded retirements because a teacher can retire for any number of reasons unrelated to budgets.

 

True, but the same claim could be made about new hires -- something Walker includes. Indeed, new hires were often necessitated by the retirements. Pulling out just one of the categories unravels any attempt to get at what actually is happening.

 

"We would have had to lay off way more teachers" if 28 hadn’t retired, said Burlington Area School District Superintendent David Moyer. The district rehired 20, according to the survey.

 

Most new hires in the Muskego-Norway district were replacing teachers who retired, said Superintendent Joe Schroeder. Retirements tripled over the previous year.

 

Werwie, the governor’s spokesman, said that ultimately Walker’s counting method shows "new teachers had an easier time getting a job in Wisconsin."

 

That seems like a safe statement, but it’s a different point than saying most districts had the same staffing or greater.

 

Werwie also argued that "staffing" should be judged by broader measures such as class size. It’s possible, he said, for class sizes to hold steady even if staff is reduced because the budget granted freedom from various work rules. In Kaukauna, for instance, the district required educators to teach six hours a day instead of five, as the Journal Sentinel reported.

 

It’s true that very large majorities of districts reported no increase in class sizes -- 74 percent in grades kindergarten to three, and 66 percent in grades 4-6, for example.

 

We think Werwie’s point about judging "staffing" by what happened to class sizes has some merit. Increases or decreases in class size can result from changes in teacher staffing.

 

But enrollment and other factors can affect class size too.

 

In the end, it’s a really a broader topic than the one in front of us on the breadth of the staffing cuts. In any event, Walker’s reference to staffing levels of "the same or greater" makes it clear he was quantifying staffing, not discussing class size.

 

Our conclusion

 

Walker referred to school survey results, saying "the overwhelming number of districts saw that staffing was the same or greater."

 

But he cherry-picked figures in his favor, leaving out a key factor -- retirements -- that formed the basis of the survey’s conclusions on overall staffing reductions. When they are included, the survey actually shows the opposite of what he said.

 

We rate his statement False.

Just a fun Scott Walker update . .

[SEC=UGA]

Just a fun Scott Walker update . .

 

I want the actual survey, can someone find it... I tried the WASDA web page but they are evidently hiding it... As is Walker's office.

[CowboyGal2011]

Walker referred to school survey results, saying "the overwhelming number of districts saw that staffing was the same or greater."

 

But he cherry-picked figures in his favor, leaving out a key factor -- retirements -- that formed the basis of the survey’s conclusions on overall staffing reductions. When they are included, the survey actually shows the opposite of what he said.

 

Oh the horrors.

[Yukon Cornelius]

over 300,000 signatures in 12 days.... should be a fun spring

[Yukon Cornelius]

I want the actual survey, can someone find it... I tried the WASDA web page but they are evidently hiding it... As is Walker's office.

 

try this one

[tosberg34]

over 300,000 signatures in 12 days.... should be a fun spring

 

Just like you thought it was a fun spring earlier this year when you thought you were going to stop the budget repair bill from sailing thru....(fail)

 

Or when you though it was going to be fun getting Sloppy Kloppy elected to the WI SC...(fail)

 

Or when you though it was going to be fun recalling ALL the republicans and take back the Senate....(fail)

 

You're right. Should be a fun spring - I look forward to victory again (if the recall does happen).

[gbpfan1231]

over 300,000 signatures in 12 days.... should be a fun spring

How many times have you signed it?

 

Lots of crap going on collecting signatures - schools having signature sheets left out on counters like Girl Scout cookie sign up sheets - Illegal

 

Police having sign up sheets out with nobody supervising signatures and when police notified it was illegal nothing was done until notifying the chief

 

Signatures in malls - illegal

 

Classy liberals all over the state.

 

Also heard that one liberal support group is advocating that people sign multiple times - govt acct board has already said it is not their job to look for duplicate signatures.

 

This thing is going to be a complete mess - know what that means? Time and money.

[bpwallace49]

This thing is going to be a complete mess - know what that means? Time and money.

 

But at least Walker has created jobs that will offset the hugh upwelling of disgust for him right?

 

 

Oh . . . wait . . . .

[gbpfan1231]

But at least Walker has created jobs that will offset the hugh upwelling of disgust for him right?

 

 

Oh . . . wait . . . .

You are absolutely correct. He has not created jobs and if he does not then like I said before he should be voted out - NOT VIA RECALL!!!!!

[SEC=UGA]

try this one

 

Thank you.

 

Scott Walker is twisting numbers. He has no defense for this...

 

Now, there is potentially an extenuating circumstance that has skewed the numbers to show a reduction in teachers and staff: They did not anticipate the high number of retirements thus they did not hire enough new teachers to replace those unforeseen retirements.

 

This is corroborated in the paragraph below the table that states: " There was a large replacement effect on teaching staff.6 Retirements between the 2010-11 and 2011-12 school years were roughly 2.5 times greater than in prior years according

to Employee Trust Funds (ETF) data."

 

Further.... I'm not too horribly worried that the Children of WI are getting screwed when I see student/teacher ratios like this:

"For context the median student teacher ratio in Wisconsin increased from 13.27 in 2010-11 to 13.53 in 2011-12. That means there are more students for fewer teachers. This confirms the reports by responding districts of increasing class sizes."

 

Finally, we are in an economic downturn and expenses need to be cut, we all have to take the brunt of this unfortunate situation. If the state can save millions of dollars while increasing class sizes by .26 percentage points, I'm probably okay with that. I'm even more okay with that when I see that the reason for the decrease in teacher size is due to retirement (these people have pensions and are not "jobless") rather than through absolute attrition. Also, how can you guys complain too much, there were 5,649 new hires... I'm guessing a lot of these new hires were younger people who currently have a historically high unemployment rate.

 

Effectively what we have here are people toward the end of their careers retiring, at very high rates, being replaced by new hires, energized young people, at seemingly very high rates as well. All the while class sizes increased so marginally as to allow for an additional 1/4 of a student per teacher.

[WaterMan]

Sounds dandy, but you forget to mention that these new hires are being asked to do more work for less pay/benefits.

[SEC=UGA]

Sounds dandy, but you forget to mention that these new hires are being asked to do more work for less pay/benefits.

 

Yeah, so are 80%+ of private sector workers...

 

I know, I know, "think of the children..." Unfortunately, I'm an unsympathetic a-hole, that's just how I roll.

[WaterMan]

Yeah, so are 80%+ of private sector workers...

 

I agree.

[gbpfan1231]

Thank you.

 

Scott Walker is twisting numbers. He has no defense for this...

 

Now, there is potentially an extenuating circumstance that has skewed the numbers to show a reduction in teachers and staff: They did not anticipate the high number of retirements thus they did not hire enough new teachers to replace those unforeseen retirements.

 

This is corroborated in the paragraph below the table that states: " There was a large replacement effect on teaching staff.6 Retirements between the 2010-11 and 2011-12 school years were roughly 2.5 times greater than in prior years according

to Employee Trust Funds (ETF) data."

 

Further.... I'm not too horribly worried that the Children of WI are getting screwed when I see student/teacher ratios like this:

"For context the median student teacher ratio in Wisconsin increased from 13.27 in 2010-11 to 13.53 in 2011-12. That means there are more students for fewer teachers. This confirms the reports by responding districts of increasing class sizes."

 

Finally, we are in an economic downturn and expenses need to be cut, we all have to take the brunt of this unfortunate situation. If the state can save millions of dollars while increasing class sizes by .26 percentage points, I'm probably okay with that. I'm even more okay with that when I see that the reason for the decrease in teacher size is due to retirement (these people have pensions and are not "jobless") rather than through absolute attrition. Also, how can you guys complain too much, there were 5,649 new hires... I'm guessing a lot of these new hires were younger people who currently have a historically high unemployment rate.

 

Effectively what we have here are people toward the end of their careers retiring, at very high rates, being replaced by new hires, energized young people, at seemingly very high rates as well. All the while class sizes increased so marginally as to allow for an additional 1/4 of a student per teacher.

Exactly. I also think that the new class size of 13.53 favors pretty well when compared to the rest of the US??

 

I agree Walker is twisting the numbers. Another thing to give him bad press - not smart.

 

But - why is Walker getting blamed for teachers who CHOOSE to retire? These teachers were not forced to retire so why did they? Did they do it for personal reasons? What happened to doing it all for the children??

[Ursa Majoris]

But - why is Walker getting blamed for teachers who CHOOSE to retire? These teachers were not forced to retire so why did they? Did they do it for personal reasons? What happened to doing it all for the children??

I would guess that they retired now so that they could get the maximum benefit out of their pensions. They have perhaps calculated that staying on will result in a diminished pension plus they will have made increased contributions for said pensions.

 

It's not unlike people retiring at 62 to grab SS as soon as they can, rather than wait until years later for an increased amount.

[gbpfan1231]

I would guess that they retired now so that they could get the maximum benefit out of their pensions. They have perhaps calculated that staying on will result in a diminished pension plus they will have made increased contributions for said pensions.

 

It's not unlike people retiring at 62 to grab SS as soon as they can, rather than wait until years later for an increased amount.

Exactly - they have figured what they think is right for themselves and they made that choice - to blame Walker is wrong.

 

If they would not have retired they would not have lost anything and would still be collecting a paycheck and still be entitled to the same pension. Granted they would be putting some of their own money in to get this pension (like we all do). Also - what seems to be forgotten is that these people would not have to be paying union dues so that helps offset it.

 

It is just a way to blame Walker for something that these people chose to do on their own because it was thought to be the right thing to do for their OWN self interest and again makes you wonder why they kept saying it was all about the children. It was not.

[bpwallace49]

Exactly - they have figured what they think is right for themselves and they made that choice - to blame Walker is wrong.

 

If they would not have retired they would not have lost anything and would still be collecting a paycheck and still be entitled to the same pension. Granted they would be putting some of their own money in to get this pension (like we all do). Also - what seems to be forgotten is that these people would not have to be paying union dues so that helps offset it.

 

It is just a way to blame Walker for something that these people chose to do on their own because it was thought to be the right thing to do for their OWN self interest and again makes you wonder why they kept saying it was all about the children. It was not.

 

Um . . . this was all Walker's idea, so for people to blame Walker seems pretty damn correct. If your boss told you that you were getting a pay cut, then you shouldnt be holding your boss responsible?

 

And you might want to think about getting off the "its all about the children" bandwagon. There are teachers on this board, and purposefully belitting them just makes you look foolish and small-minded.

 

Have a great day!

[gbpfan1231]

Um . . . this was all Walker's idea, so for people to blame Walker seems pretty damn correct. If your boss told you that you were getting a pay cut, then you shouldnt be holding your boss responsible?

 

And you might want to think about getting off the "its all about the children" bandwagon. There are teachers on this board, and purposefully belitting them just makes you look foolish and small-minded.

 

Have a great day!

Give me a frickin break.

 

Yes there are teachers and I would think they were adults and can handle it - nice try and they were the first people to be saying it is all about the kids - typical hypocrisy.

 

If I have a sweet pension deal at work and my company does not have the money to pay the bills and to get the finances back in line they freeze wages or ask that employees kick in more for benefits (which has happened to the company I work for for the last 2 years) and because of that I CHOOSE to retire I would not blame my boss or my company.

[bpwallace49]

Give me a frickin break.

 

Yes there are teachers and I would think they were adults and can handle it - nice try and they were the first people to be saying it is all about the kids - typical hypocrisy.

 

If I have a sweet pension deal at work and my company does not have the money to pay the bills and to get the finances back in line they freeze wages or ask that employees kick in more for benefits (which has happened to the company I work for for the last 2 years) and because of that I CHOOSE to retire I would not blame my boss or my company.

 

So the direct reason of you retiring . . . the freezing of pension/decrease in salary . . you would not attribute to your boss? Even if your boss was making the same wage he was making before? Riiiiiiiiight . . .

 

If the teachers here are adults then why are you trying to belittle them? Why not treat them like adults?

 

[gbpfan1231]

So the direct reason of you retiring . . . the freezing of pension/decrease in salary . . you would not attribute to your boss? Even if your boss was making the same wage he was making before? Riiiiiiiiight . . .

 

If the teachers here are adults then why are you trying to belittle them? Why not treat them like adults?

 

I realize that the direct reason that my company is freezing wages and having employees kick in more is because of the economy and the finances of the company. I don't lay blame on others for my decisions.

 

I am not belittling anybody - there have been hundreds of worse things said on this message board than "It is all for the kids" but you want to jump all over that and cry about it. You don't ever belittle anyone with your condascending remarks?? Nope ok for you but leave the teachers alone.