stevegrab Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Um no...Vince Young had many of the flaws Tebow has. His supporters did the same crap. Oh he is a winner. That is all you heard. Usually that stuff catches up to you. There are not very many shiatty qbs that were just winners over a long period of time. One season, maybe. But for the long haul...hard to find them. Most of these types of running qbs have the same type of argument involving them. Their detractors say they can't pass and that it will catch up to them. Their supporters say they are winners and they will continue to grow. Guys like Vick, Sanchez, Young...they have not won squat. So until one of these flawed and argued about qbs wins the big game then they are still not anything special. I would wager plenty that TRebow does not win a Super Bowl. Same for Sanchez, Young, and Vick. Not happening. So by your logic Marino never proved anything because he never won the big game. And Dilfer was a great QB because he did. No, I'm not saying that Vick, Young, Sanchez or Tebow have proven anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 So by your logic Marino never proved anything because he never won the big game. And Dilfer was a great QB because he did. No, I'm not saying that Vick, Young, Sanchez or Tebow have proven anything. But Marino didn't have his shortcomings as a QB explained away because "he's a winner". That's the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Um no...Vince Young had many of the flaws Tebow has. His supporters did the same crap. Oh he is a winner. That is all you heard. Usually that stuff catches up to you. There are not very many shiatty qbs that were just winners over a long period of time. One season, maybe. But for the long haul...hard to find them. Most of these types of running qbs have the same type of argument involving them. Their detractors say they can't pass and that it will catch up to them. Their supporters say they are winners and they will continue to grow. Guys like Vick, Sanchez, Young...they have not won squat. So until one of these flawed and argued about qbs wins the big game then they are still not anything special. I would wager plenty that TRebow does not win a Super Bowl. Same for Sanchez, Young, and Vick. Not happening. I am of the opinion that vince young would have been a very effective QB in this league if he weren't a head case. as far as passer rating, probably not, but as far as leading the team to wins, yes. one thing to be somewhat thankful for I guess, at least the tebow phenomenon is largely removing the race angle from the age-old "can a running QB be effective in the NFL" debate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 But Marino didn't have his shortcomings as a QB explained away because "he's a winner". That's the difference. Not sure if you're agreeing or disagreeing with me. And I was probably off base as well, since the posts were all about QBs that have issues and are not perceived to be good by many people. And Marino didn't have those shortcomings that these guys being discussed have. It just bugs me when people throw out the "if you haven't want the big game" stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Vick didn't win a superbowl, but good luck finding a QB who is going to break some of his records. Some will never be broken because he was the first to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Vick didn't win a superbowl, but good luck finding a QB who is going to break some of his records. Some will never be broken because he was the first to do so. I'm knew here (posting) but recognize you as the biggest Vick supporter on the board. So maybe you're just but. Care to tell us what some of those records are which will never be broken. If the record is "first QB to..." then yeah, those can't be broken. Otherwise I'm not aware of any meaningful records that he holds which are unbreakable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Vick didn't win a superbowl, but good luck finding a QB who is going to break some of his records. Some will never be broken because he was the first to do so. what records would those be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Not sure if you're agreeing or disagreeing with me. And I was probably off base as well, since the posts were all about QBs that have issues and are not perceived to be good by many people. And Marino didn't have those shortcomings that these guys being discussed have. It just bugs me when people throw out the "if you haven't want the big game" stuff. I agree, but I think the point is, and fairly so, "if you haven't won the big game, then forgive me if I don't excuse your shortcomings as a QB because 'you're a winner'". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 what records would those be? Kind of wondering about that myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh 0ne Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 (edited) what records would those be? Aside from killing more dogs than any other NFL player, there are a few: - After the 2010 NFL season ended, Vick set the record for the most rushing yards by a Quarterback with 4,948 rushing yards. - On November 15, 2010, Vick became the first player in NFL history with 300 passing yards, 50 rushing yards, four passing touchdowns and two rushing touchdowns in a game. Vick also became the first player in NFL history to have three passing touchdowns and two rushing touchdowns in the first half of a game. - In 2006, Vick became the only quarterback in NFL history to rush for over 1,000 yards during the regular season. - In 2006, Vick set the NFL record for most yards per carry in a season with 8.4. - Vick (1,039 yards) and Dunn (1,140) became the first QB/RB tandem in NFL history to each go over the 1,000-yard rushing mark in the same season. They became the fourth set of teammates in league history to each have 1,000 or more yards. - Made his third Pro Bowl in 2005 as he passed for 2,412 yards and 16 touchdowns in addition to leading all NFL quarterbacks with 597 rushing yards and six scores. - Named to the second Pro Bowl of his career after leading the Falcons to their third division title in team history and breaking numerous NFL and team records in 2004. - Set an NFL postseason record for a quarterback with 119 rushing yards in the 2004 NFC Divisional playoff win against the Rams. - Became the first quarterback to throw for more than 250 yards and rush for over 100 yards in the same game in Denver (October 31, 2004). From wikipedia. Edited December 6, 2011 by Hugh 0ne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 so basically, 1000 yards rushing in a year and 5000 (and counting) for a career. those hardly strike me as unbreakable records. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 so basically, 1000 yards rushing in a year and 5000 (and counting) for a career. those hardly strike me as unbreakable records. Newton is on pace for 700 this year and Tebow has 468 in 7+ games, so yeah, I'd say the 1000 yards in a season is not exactly Cal's Iron-man streak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caddyman Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 I agree, but I think the point is, and fairly so, "if you haven't won the big game, then forgive me if I don't excuse your shortcomings as a QB because 'you're a winner'". Thanks...again. Never did I say if you did not win a big game you suck. Also, I never said if you won one you are great. It is not as black and white as that. Some of these guys are dense. You have to watch every word you type. It's getting old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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