So if winning is all that matters...

[keggerz]

Then why does Sanchez get so much sh1t? EDIT: Flacco for that matter too.

 

Heard on Mike and Mike today (but found on twitter too) that he is one of just 5 QBs with 30+ wins in 1st 3 yrs(including playoffs)

 

Mark Sanchez joins Dan Marino, Joe Flacco, Ben Roethlisberger &Matt Ryan as only QBs in SB era to have 30+ wins in 1st 3 yrs as starter #nyj

 

So is it fair to say that it isn't always about winning,and that expectations have something to do with it too?

Or is it because Sanchez plays on a team with a top D, and therefore he doesn't get nor deserve the credit that a guy like Tebow is getting?

 

Or is there something else?

Edited December 6, 2011 by keggerz

[bostonsoxandy]

Winning is all that matters but Sanchez hasn't really won either, although it's extremely unfair to expect a Super Bowl in a player's first couple of years in the league, Rex Ryan and his big mouth put that expectation on the team. Anything less than a Super Bowl is a failure, Rex Ryan has stated that himself. So when a team fails it's only natural for fans/the media to ask why, why has this team failed?

 

Sanchez seems like the person to blame because the Jets D is top notch, the WRs have done their thing, and the running game has been good the last 2 years (not this year though), and a good QB is the player that impacts the game the most now. He has shrunk in big games this year in my opinion (the games against the Pats, Broncos, and Ravens stick out to me).

 

But I think the big point is they haven't won a Super Bowl. The expectation isn't to make the playoffs, isn't to win a playoff game, isn't to reach the Super Bowl, it is to win the Super Bowl.

[rattsass]

So is it fair to say that it isn't always about winning,and that expectations have something to do with it too?

Or is it because Sanchez plays on a team with a top D, and therefore he doesn't get nor deserve the credit that a guy like Tebow is getting?

 

Or is there something else?

I think part of it is that Sanchez was maybe overrated and expectations too high coming out of college. Everybody considered this guy a lock as an NFL QB. Whereas with Tebow, few if any real football people really thought he would translate to the pro game, especially with so many flaws still present in his game. Well, most of those flaws are still there, yet the guy manages to win games despite his limitations. So Tebow is put in an elevated position. He is overacheiving (as always) while Sanchez is perceived to be underacheiving despite his teams winning record. Expectations count for a lot. Absolutely.

[keggerz]

Winning is all that matters but Sanchez hasn't really won either, although it's extremely unfair to expect a Super Bowl in a player's first couple of years in the league, Rex Ryan and his big mouth put that expectation on the team. Anything less than a Super Bowl is a failure, Rex Ryan has stated that himself. So when a team fails it's only natural for fans/the media to ask why, why has this team failed?

 

Sanchez seems like the person to blame because the Jets D is top notch, the WRs have done their thing, and the running game has been good the last 2 years (not this year though), and a good QB is the player that impacts the game the most now. He has shrunk in big games this year in my opinion (the games against the Pats, Broncos, and Ravens stick out to me).

 

But I think the big point is they haven't won a Super Bowl. The expectation isn't to make the playoffs, isn't to win a playoff game, isn't to reach the Super Bowl, it is to win the Super Bowl.

so the criteria is different then ....I have heard talk that if not for Rodgers that Tebow should get consideration for MVP if he gets the Broncos to the playoffs

[keggerz]

I think part of it is that Sanchez was maybe overrated and expectations too high coming out of college. Everybody considered this guy a lock as an NFL QB. Whereas with Tebow, few if any real football people really thought he would translate to the pro game, especially with so many flaws still present in his game. Well, most of those flaws are still there, yet the guy manages to win games despite his limitations. So Tebow is put in an elevated position. He is overacheiving (as always) while Sanchez is perceived to be underacheiving despite his teams winning record. Expectations count for a lot. Absolutely.

So the measuring stick isn't wins, got it.

[coordi88]

Career NFL statistics as of Week 13, 2011

Pass attempts 1,276

Pass completions 703

Percentage 55.1

TD–INT 48-44

Passing Yards 8,413

Passer rating 73.6

 

the jets could clearly have won more games the last 3 years with a slightly better QB..

 

Career NFL statistics as of Week 9, 2011

TD-INT 30-31

Passing yards 5,540

QB Rating 75.7

 

tavaris jackson....

[electricrelish]

I need Mike Tolbert to get me 6 points in a PPR league. Let's go Tolbert!

[isleseeya]

its how you win and how much you contribute to your team winning that separates the great qb's from the average or even above average qbs

 

Are jets winning because of sanchez or ravens because of flacco ?

 

are packers winning because of rodgers and broncos winning because of tebow ?

 

I think that is the difference and why sanchez is getting heat and flack

Edited December 6, 2011 by isleseeya

[keggerz]

Career NFL statistics as of Week 13, 2011

Pass attempts 1,276

Pass completions 703

Percentage 55.1

TD–INT 48-44

Passing Yards 8,413

Passer rating 73.6

 

the jets could clearly have won more games the last 3 years with a slightly better QB..

 

Career NFL statistics as of Week 9, 2011

TD-INT 30-31

Passing yards 5,540

QB Rating 75.7

 

tavaris jackson....

So wins do matter...wait, no they don't????

[keggerz]

its how you win and how much you contribute to your team winning that separates the great qb's from the average or even above average qbs

 

Are jets winning because of sanchez or ravens because of flacco ?

 

are packers winning because of rodgers and broncos winning because of tebow ?

 

I think that is the difference and why sanchez is getting heat and flack

So you are saying a win isn't a win, but what is important is how you win? Got it.

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redsk...nXVO_story.html

 

Mark Sanchez led his 10th career fourth-quarter or overtime comeback victory and his second in two weeks.

Edited December 6, 2011 by keggerz

[electricrelish]

I need Mike Tolbert to get me 6 points in a PPR league. Let's go Tolbert!

 

Sorry, I posted this in the wrong thread, but I still got it! Yippie!

[delusions of grandeur]

Hasn't it been brought up here before that Trent Dilfer got cut after winning a Superbowl?

 

That pretty much sums it up, and explains why Tebow still has doubters after winning games... Just because you're winning, doesn't mean you couldn't do better with an upgrade if you're not winning the Superbowl every year.

 

I mean, it's an interesting discussion, but the eye-ball test will always tell you things the wins and stats don't necessarily tell you.... And it's pretty clear that there are a number of times that Sanchez hasn't met the eyeball test of being a franchise QB...

 

I think it's really that simple, when we're talking about a team game (no matter how QB-driven it might be, it's not the only way to win).

[coordi88]

tebow is the figure head of a team that was in dire straights

 

sanchez is the figure head of a team that has had SB expectations

 

in these postions, tebow has performed better while winning. sanchez has not performed while winning

 

so depends on the situation clearly

[isleseeya]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redsk...nXVO_story.html

 

Trent dilfer got props for winning a SB once

 

and I am not killing Sanchez ...i am saying that Jets win because of defense primarily and Ravens do same plus their running game

 

saints and Packers and now Broncos are winning more often because of their QB

 

Teams win for different reasons ...The teams that win primarily because of their QB will have their QB likely stand out and in most cases be praised as great QB's

 

teams that do not win majority of the time because of their qb will likely have qb's that get criticized more

[keggerz]

Hasn't it been brought up here before that Trent Dilfer got cut after winning a Superbowl?

 

That pretty much sums it up, and explains why Tebow still has doubters after winning games... Just because you're winning, doesn't mean you couldn't do better with an upgrade if you're not winning the Superbowl every year.

 

I mean, it's an interesting discussion, but the eye-ball test will always tell you things the wins and stats don't necessarily tell you.... And it's pretty clear that there are a number of times that Sanchez hasn't met the eyeball test of being a franchise QB...

 

I think it's really that simple, when we're talking about a team game (no matter how QB-driven it might be, it's not the only way to win).

By me actually.

 

as for the rest of your post, the Tebow "backers" won't agree with the stats and such..win win win

[keggerz]

tebow is the figure head of a team that was in dire straights

 

sanchez is the figure head of a team that has had SB expectations

 

in these postions, tebow has performed better while winning. sanchez has not performed while winning

 

so depends on the situation clearly

so winning isn't all that matters? Got it.

[darin3]

Simple: They're winning in spite of Sanchez, not because of him.

 

/thread

[keggerz]

Trent dilfer got props for winning a SB once

 

and I am not killing Sanchez ...i am saying that Jets win because of defense primarily and Ravens do same plus their running game

 

saints and Packers and now Broncos are winning more often because of their QB

 

Teams win for different reasons ...The teams that win primarily because of their QB will have their QB likely stand out and in most cases be praised as great QB's

 

teams that do not win majority of the time because of their qb will likely have qb's that get criticized more

I get it, Sanchez and Flacco are just cogs in their teams and their wins are diminished because of it..but Tebow, his wins are golden. Got it.

[electricrelish]

Hasn't it been brought up here before that Trent Dilfer got cut after winning a Superbowl?

 

And the Ravens never won a SB again.

[keggerz]

Simple: They're winning in spite of Sanchez, not because of him.

 

/thread

Sanchez has 10 4th quarter or OT wins...take those away and the Jets record the last 3 yrs goes from 31-19 .620 Win % to 21-29 .420 Win %

 

I am thinking about starting a petition to have Winning% renamed Tebow %

[isleseeya]

I get it, Sanchez and Flacco are just cogs in their teams and their wins are diminished because of it..but Tebow, his wins are golden. Got it.

 

Tebow wins have been golden ...but its a 7 game body of work ... we can keep him or take him out of the argument as it does not matter to me

 

if we are looking at players who have played a number of seasons in this argument / analogy ( and i think that is what should be used since sanchez has a body of work to look at since has played a number of seasons ) , then i would use Rodgers since he contributes mightily and CONSISTENTLY to his teams wins and Sanchez does not

 

If this a Tebow bashing thread , lets name it that ...and i would be out since i am not bashing him ..i respect him and like his style and heart

Edited December 6, 2011 by isleseeya

[darin3]

Sanchez has 10 4th quarter or OT wins...take those away and the Jets record the last 3 yrs goes from 31-19 .620 Win % to 21-29 .420 Win %

 

I am thinking about starting a petition to have Winning% renamed Tebow %

Wrong. The JETS have 10 4th quarter or OT wins. Are you trying to tell us that Sanchez played by himself - on both sides of the ball - in all those spectacular wins?

[isleseeya]

Wrong. The JETS have 10 4th quarter or OT wins. Are you trying to tell us that Sanchez played by himself - on both sides of the ball - in all those spectacular wins?

 

[keggerz]

Wrong. The JETS have 10 4th quarter or OT wins. Are you trying to tell us that Sanchez played by himself - on both sides of the ball - in all those spectacular wins?

QB is the only position in the NFL that gets credit for Wins and Loses.

Edited December 6, 2011 by keggerz

[delusions of grandeur]

By me actually.

 

as for the rest of your post, the Tebow "backers" won't agree with the stats and such..win win win

Ah, I should have realized what you were getting at, with you being the IDP guy here....

 

In that case, I change my answer. Sanchez is just a winner who makes all the guys around him better. It's clearly his play that's rallied the great defensive play. If we could all have such a tremendous leader, then surely our teams would play to the same level.