HowboutthemCowboys Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 isn't that redundant? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raider.Nation Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 I still don't get how DD is considered a top 15 back.... If DD isn't top 15, than Westy most certainly isn't! I'm a huge Westy fan but come on dude. Davis puts up a ton more rushing yardage and TD's rushing than Westbrook, and is easily the 3rd or 4th best RB rec'ing out of the backfield. Only behind Westbrook, and Lamont IMHO. Westy in a PPR league would be ranked as high as say 5-7 (tops), which is right where Dom is on average in a PPR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawks21 Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 (edited) he'll get a #3 corner.....this corner can not match up with him....it's a mismatch.... and they won't always technically line up up at the line....he'll line up sort of in the H-back position.. I agree with this theory, although it isn't what I see on the field. I'm not a native or homer, but B-West is my favorite player in the NFL to watch, and I've owned him his whole career in my daynasty league, so I have watched him and broken him down excessively, especially this past season with the sunday pass. The thing is, they typically line him up in the backfield and send him in motion. Early in his career, a linebacker or safety would follow him out there, he'd do a simple comeback or out, be wide open, and dance down the field. Either that or he would just lazily flare to some space and be a check-down that could make plays. After he started out so strong this past season, teams were waiting for this and had their best DB, often a corner, waiting to shadow his every move. Donovan would stare and stare at him and he couldn't get open in time so Donovan would end up in trouble. My main point is that Westbrook isn't going to get any mismatches anymore. Teams know he's their best player, and adjust accordingly. He is one of those guys that can still make plays, but moving him to the slot isn't going to do a whole lot. Also, I don't recall EVER seeing him line-up as an H-back. They do some crazy stuff with him, so I'm sure it happens sometimes, but it isn't a part of their base gameplan. As far as Moats, and using him to run while using Westbrook to catch.....everything I have read seems to be stating that Westbrook has been promised more carries, and a shot to be a runner, instead of a glorified third down back. Moats is just a backup, period. Edited July 2, 2006 by Seahawks21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted July 2, 2006 Author Share Posted July 2, 2006 If DD isn't top 15, than Westy most certainly isn't! I'm a huge Westy fan but come on dude. Davis puts up a ton more rushing yardage and TD's rushing than Westbrook, and is easily the 3rd or 4th best RB rec'ing out of the backfield. Only behind Westbrook, and Lamont IMHO. Westy in a PPR league would be ranked as high as say 5-7 (tops), which is right where Dom is on average in a PPR. his knee has retarded......he's not even worth a top 20 pick to me because his wheels will fall off.... people knock Westy for being "injury prone"...but DD is worse.....even in 2003, Westy got hurt in week 17....he played the whole fantasy season anyways..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted July 2, 2006 Author Share Posted July 2, 2006 I agree with this theory, although it isn't what I see on the field. I'm not a native or homer, but B-West is my favorite player in the NFL to watch, and I've owned him his whole career in my daynasty league, so I have watched him and broken him down excessively, especially this past season with the sunday pass. The thing is, they typically line him up in the backfield and send him in motion. Early in his career, a linebacker or safety would follow him out there, he'd do a simple comeback or out, be wide open, and dance down the field. Either that or he would just lazily flare to some space and be a check-down that could make plays. After he started out so strong this past season, teams were waiting for this and had their best DB, often a corner, waiting to shadow his every move. Donovan would stare and stare at him and he couldn't get open in time so Donovan would end up in trouble. My main point is that Westbrook isn't going to get any mismatches anymore. Teams know he's their best player, and adjust accordingly. He is one of those guys that can still make plays, but moving him to the slot isn't going to do a whole lot. I would love to see this happen with a 3 WR set... Also, I don't recall EVER seeing him line-up as an H-back. They do some crazy stuff with him, so I'm sure it happens sometimes, but it isn't a part of their base gameplan. of course he doesn't line up as an H-Back....he lines up as a RB and moves off the line, but behind the TE.....that's pretty much where the H-Back lines up anyways....he just moves there..plus he's faster than most safeties....they better line up a safety and a LB with speed... As far as Moats, and using him to run while using Westbrook to catch.....everything I have read seems to be stating that Westbrook has been promised more carries, and a shot to be a runner, instead of a glorified third down back. Moats is just a backup, period. read my original post in this thread....the basis on them running more is due to Moats....Andy Reid loves the multiple back approach...but this won't hurt Westy's value...because he'll get his looks in the passing game, regardless...Bruce Perry will be the one not seeing PT....Westy isn't as effective running the ball as Moats is....but he can still take it to the house...plus he's tremendously effective catching, obviously.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordo721 Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 (edited) MARSHALL HAS THE SORT OF THE SAME BODY TYPE AS T.O. HAS BUT THATS AS FAR AS IT GOES!!! Edited July 2, 2006 by gordo721 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted July 2, 2006 Author Share Posted July 2, 2006 MARSHALL HAS THE SORT OF THE SAME BODY TYPE AS T.O. HAS BUT THATS AS FAR AS IT GOES!!! of course...he hasn't even played in the NFL yet.... but the Broncos love the kid....he's one of the rookie WR's I'm keeping an eye on long term.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawks21 Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 Sorry Avernus, I'm not much for tricky quoting. They do spread Westbrook out with a three receiver set all the time. Unfortunately, their #2 receiver sucks, so teams feel they can get away with putting their nickel corner on him. You'd think it would create a mismatch, but it really doesn't. As far as the Moats thing, I know what you're saying about how it has been promised that they will run the ball more, but what I'm saying is that Westbrook himself was given that promise, not Moats. They are going to see what kind of rushing load Westbrook can handle. After all, they have no idea what he can do with the load, they've never tried. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncosn05 Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 I think if you took away Westbrooks injury problems he would be the undisputed number 4 pick. I don't blame noone for taking him with a top 10 pick. it would just suck to take him with your top 10 pick and then still have to use a middle round pick(at least) to grab Moats. Well said. Westy's recption numbers are good enough for me to take him with an early second and make it well worth the pick but Moats' 5.1 YPC is scary enough for me o stay away until mid second.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted July 2, 2006 Author Share Posted July 2, 2006 Sorry Avernus, I'm not much for tricky quoting. They do spread Westbrook out with a three receiver set all the time. Unfortunately, their #2 receiver sucks, so teams feel they can get away with putting their nickel corner on him. You'd think it would create a mismatch, but it really doesn't. As far as the Moats thing, I know what you're saying about how it has been promised that they will run the ball more, but what I'm saying is that Westbrook himself was given that promise, not Moats. They are going to see what kind of rushing load Westbrook can handle. After all, they have no idea what he can do with the load, they've never tried. you don't have to have tricky quoting...I wanted to address each thing you said without missing anything... but I don't know that I've heard Westbrook being promised all these touches.....but I know they want to run the ball..... and they won't overuse Westy if they don't have to...they will make sure Westy gets a certain number of touches and then the next guy..... Reid has never been a 1 back guy....he's had the 3 headed monster and then last year he had Westy and Gordon...before Moats started picking up the offense...then it was a small blend.... Moats will get at least 10 touches a game...maybe 10 rushes alone since he's not known for his ability in the passing game.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackass Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 After all, they have no idea what he can do with the load, they've never tried. true, but i think there are reasons for that. they want to make sure he stays healthy. as stated, i think this has more to do with getting moats more action. he was fairly impressive last year when he got in, so to me this makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdj7k Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 so is buckhalter out of the loop? no knees, is bad knees Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Stoner Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 People keep talking about his injury problems but almost all RB's get banged up. Name 5 RB's who have started over the last 3 yrs who haven't been hindered and or missed games due to injury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted July 6, 2006 Author Share Posted July 6, 2006 so is buckhalter out of the loop? no knees, is bad knees he's fighting Perry and Mahe for the 3rd spot... word out of camp is Perry looks real good....Buckhalter is still being limited right now and will get more reps within the next month or so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blaw23 Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 his knee has retarded......he's not even worth a top 20 pick to me because his wheels will fall off.... people knock Westy for being "injury prone"...but DD is worse.....even in 2003, Westy got hurt in week 17....he played the whole fantasy season anyways..... DD is no worse than Westbrook when it comes to injury. Since 2003 DD's rookie year. They have both played in a total of 40 games out of 48. As I have stated before they are essentially the same. DD - 2003 238 - 1031 - 8 47 - 351 - 0 2004 302 - 1188 - 13 68 - 588 - 1 2005 230 - 976 - 2 39 - 537 - 4 Westbrook 2003 117 - 613 - 7 37 - 332 - 4 2004 177 - 812 - 3 73 - 703 - 6 2005 156 - 617 - 3 61 - 616 -4 So over the past three years Davis averages more total yds and Davis has scored 1 more TD and they have both played in 40 total games. That is why I don't understand your comments about how Davis always gets hurt and Westbrook is better than Davis. If you are baseing your comments on concerns this year about Davis' knee I get that. I also have concerns, but to blankly say Westbrook is better than Davis is simply not true. Until I hear more clarification on Davis' knee I have him rated ahead of Westbrook by about 1 spot. They will essentially give you the same production based on their totals from the past three years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted July 6, 2006 Author Share Posted July 6, 2006 DD is no worse than Westbrook when it comes to injury. Since 2003 DD's rookie year. They have both played in a total of 40 games out of 48. As I have stated before they are essentially the same. DD - 2003 238 - 1031 - 8 47 - 351 - 0 2004 302 - 1188 - 13 68 - 588 - 1 2005 230 - 976 - 2 39 - 537 - 4 Westbrook 2003 117 - 613 - 7 37 - 332 - 4 2004 177 - 812 - 3 73 - 703 - 6 2005 156 - 617 - 3 61 - 616 -4 So over the past three years Davis averages more total yds and Davis has scored 1 more TD and they have both played in 40 total games. That is why I don't understand your comments about how Davis always gets hurt and Westbrook is better than Davis. If you are baseing your comments on concerns this year about Davis' knee I get that. I also have concerns, but to blankly say Westbrook is better than Davis is simply not true. Until I hear more clarification on Davis' knee I have him rated ahead of Westbrook by about 1 spot. They will essentially give you the same production based on their totals from the past three years. I'm not talking about history...I'm talking about current states of both backs... Westbrook has had nobody even mention his injury of last year and appears fine... DD's knee swells up in walkthroughs... that is my point... DD groupies want to defend him religiously...it's like all of the JJ fans....he's off alot worse than Westbrook and I've seen some rankings that have him in front of Westy....this is crazy to me.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blaw23 Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 I'm not talking about history...I'm talking about current states of both backs... Westbrook has had nobody even mention his injury of last year and appears fine... DD's knee swells up in walkthroughs... that is my point... DD groupies want to defend him religiously...it's like all of the JJ fans....he's off alot worse than Westbrook and I've seen some rankings that have him in front of Westy....this is crazy to me.. I am not a DD groupie but I just wanted to discuss the point that Westbrook is better than DD. I agree with you on the current states. Westbrook does seem to be in better shape. We really don't have any solid info. on Davis' knee. The rankings that have him in front of Westbrook is because of projected numbers not taking into account Davis' possible issue with his knee. If both start the season healthy they can be expected to put up almost identical numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted July 6, 2006 Author Share Posted July 6, 2006 I am not a DD groupie but I just wanted to discuss the point that Westbrook is better than DD. I agree with you on the current states. Westbrook does seem to be in better shape. We really don't have any solid info. on Davis' knee. The rankings that have him in front of Westbrook is because of projected numbers not taking into account Davis' possible issue with his knee. If both start the season healthy they can be expected to put up almost identical numbers. agreed...both backs are used in a similar fashion in both offenses....but the Eagles are expected to run more and Westy is on a much better team.... yet, DD can be used in alot of catchup like Jordan was last year... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted July 6, 2006 Author Share Posted July 6, 2006 if he catches, he'll generally face smaller players than when he gets a handoff.... and Moats is a much tougher back...but he needs to learn not to fumble... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted July 6, 2006 Author Share Posted July 6, 2006 where did that last post go? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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