Chavez Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 "Fall down" to GB? Fall all the way to the 4th pick? Right now they are winning their way out of the top ten, last year was the highest they'd picked since '92. And against the hapless Vikes and a Bears team that will most likely be phoning it in, they have a reasonable shot at 8-8. But however far it is, I'd take Joe Thomas in a heartbeat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd1 Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 While this can be said of some, I think the Colts and Bengals beg to differ... yah, just ask Cin and Pit and SD and NY and Ind and..well, you get the point. And how many Super Bowls have they won?? Pitt has one, but Roethlisberger was terrible in the game. The defense and running game won it, which, surprise is helped by good O and D lines! They're booing Eli in NY right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LooGie Posted December 18, 2006 Author Share Posted December 18, 2006 Right now they are winning their way out of the top ten, last year was the highest they'd picked since '92. And against the hapless Vikes and a Bears team that will most likely be phoning it in, they have a reasonable shot at 8-8. But however far it is, I'd take Joe Thomas in a heartbeat. point taken. I just had to get my kicks, since nothing helps savor a bad mood like spreading it around . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 point taken. I just had to get my kicks, since nothing helps savor a bad mood like spreading it around . I am a ray of sunshine, I am Maria Von Trapp on Prozac, you can't bring me down, bee-yotch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LooGie Posted December 18, 2006 Author Share Posted December 18, 2006 And how many Super Bowls have they won?? Pitt has one, but Roethlisberger was terrible in the game. The defense and running game won it, which, surprise is helped by good O and D lines! They're booing Eli in NY right now. so it wasn't worth drafting Roth so high because he played terrible in the SuperBowl? oh man..that's funny. Nevermind that whole 15-0 thing as a starter his first year and nevermind that Peyton is like 34 of the last 38 games or something. Riiight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LooGie Posted December 18, 2006 Author Share Posted December 18, 2006 I am a ray of sunshine, I am Maria Von Trapp on Prozac, you can't bring me down, bee-yotch. oh man. LOL right there. I almost spit my beer out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 oh man. LOL right there. I almost spit my beer out. See? I've made you happy too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockerbraves Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 It's up to fans to realize that games are won on the lines. A stud OL can make ALL your skill players look better. But I wouldn't mind ALL bad teams having this thought process so stud OLs and DLs fall down to Green Bay every year. So you prefer the Texans type draft? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd1 Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 so it wasn't worth drafting Roth so high because he played terrible in the SuperBowl? oh man..that's funny. Nevermind that whole 15-0 thing as a starter his first year and nevermind that Peyton is like 34 of the last 38 games or something. Riiight. He's a handoff machine. How many games did he win single handidly?? Pittsburgh's game plan for the last millenium has been run the ball and play defense. That's why they won the SB, not because Roethlisberger is Peyton Manning or Dan Marino. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LooGie Posted December 18, 2006 Author Share Posted December 18, 2006 See? I've made you happy too. like perfume from a cheap chinese prostitute: rubbing off on me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LooGie Posted December 18, 2006 Author Share Posted December 18, 2006 He's a handoff machine. How many games did he win single handidly?? Pittsburgh's game plan for the last millenium has been run the ball and play defense. That's why they won the SB, not because Roethlisberger is Peyton Manning or Dan Marino. both of whom were drafted when? Yah, I've never seen Ben single handedly win a game, nor make several big plays since he's too busy thinking which side to hand off to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 So you prefer the Texans type draft? Good line play can makes skill position players better - your stud RB isn't very good when he wastes his best moves 3 yards deep in the backfield; your stud QB won't get much passing done if he's always flat on his back. Ask Edgerrin James, David Carr, Cadillac Williams, and Mike Vick about the importance of line play. They may or may not be great players, but they'd certainly have a chance to LOOK better with decent OLs in front of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd1 Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 both of whom were drafted when? Yah, I've never seen Ben single handedly win a game, nor make several big plays since he's too busy thinking which side to hand off to. Again, how many SB's have Marino and Manning won? You're making my point, if he's handing off all the time, why take him in the 1st round when you can have Jeff Garcia do the same thing? Look at all the Romo's, Garcia's, who are scrubs, never weres or washouts and winning big games while leading their teams to the playoffs. A $100 mill QB isn't the answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LooGie Posted December 18, 2006 Author Share Posted December 18, 2006 Again, how many SB's have Marino and Manning won? You're making my point, if he's handing off all the time, why take him in the 1st round when you can have Jeff Garcia do the same thing? Look at all the Romo's, Garcia's, who are scrubs, never weres or washouts and winning big games while leading their teams to the playoffs. A $100 mill QB isn't the answer. I am not making your point. Your point is that Ben only hands off and can't make big plays, and I say you're a complete moran if you stick by this argument. There's alot to be said for being a team leader as well. And Ben has 1 SB, so your point is moot regardless of which way you charge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd1 Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 Ok, so Roeth got lucky by having a great veteran team around him, 2 great RBs, and a great D. How many have Vick, either Manning, Culpepper, Carr, Harrington, McNown, Akili Smith, Palmer, Leftwich, Boller, Ramsey, Pennington, Couch, and Ryan Leaf won?? How many of those guys are out of the league or not w/ the original team anymore? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 QB is such a weird thing, I don't think you can generalize where the great ones are gonna come from - terrific QBs have come in as 1st overall picks (Aikman, Elway, Manning, I'll throw Palmer in there), later picks (Marino, Roeth, Favre, Brees), late picks (Brady, B Johnson, Gannon), street FAs (Warner, Delhomme), or refugees from other leagues (S Young). Is a $100 mil QB the answer? Maybe, maybe not; I think a team is closer to a title with quality QB play than it is without it, that's for sure. But there are plenty of ways to skin that cat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LooGie Posted December 18, 2006 Author Share Posted December 18, 2006 Ok, so Roeth got lucky by having a great veteran team around him, 2 great RBs, and a great D. How many have Vick, either Manning, Culpepper, Carr, Harrington, McNown, Akili Smith, Palmer, Leftwich, Boller, Ramsey, Pennington, Couch, and Ryan Leaf won?? How many of those guys are out of the league or not w/ the original team anymore? So he was great in college, but great in the NFL by fluke? Whatever man. You're all over the board. So Marino never won a SB...he wasn't worth taking in the first round? Get a clue and let it go. You're seriously all over the board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockerbraves Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 Good line play can makes skill position players better - your stud RB isn't very good when he wastes his best moves 3 yards deep in the backfield; your stud QB won't get much passing done if he's always flat on his back. Ask Edgerrin James, David Carr, Cadillac Williams, and Mike Vick about the importance of line play. They may or may not be great players, but they'd certainly have a chance to LOOK better with decent OLs in front of them. Many will disagree however I feel if your team is one of the first to draft you better off picking a high profile player that creates excitement for next season more so than an OL that most fans do not appreciate their value. If your OL player is a bust you'll be fired for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LooGie Posted December 18, 2006 Author Share Posted December 18, 2006 Many will disagree however I feel if your team is one of the first to draft you better off picking a high profile player that creates excitement for next season more so than an OL that most fans do not appreciate their value. If your OL player is a bust you'll be fired for sure. this is a pretty good point and theory. I feel like you can draft o-line and d-line players in the second round, especially high in the second round just fine. now if Ari or Ten finished one of the worst teams (after drafting their franchise QB last year) they could either draft a big name o-lineman, or trade that high draft pick for a later first and possibly a second or third or many many draft picks. Qbs are always worth a gamble with that high draft pick if you need one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 Many will disagree however I feel if your team is one of the first to draft you better off picking a high profile player that creates excitement for next season more so than an OL that most fans do not appreciate their value. If your OL player is a bust you'll be fired for sure. IMO that is foolish - if you let the fans coach, they'll always want you to go for it on 4th and short (wait, I agree with that more or less), start the backup QB, throw every down...well, unless it's an incompletion, then you should have run, take the draw play out of your playbook, blitz every down, etc etc. If you let the fans GM, they'll always want to pick the Heisman winner early, followed by the best local/state college heroes, spend scads of money on the biggest FAs (which is almost always a bad decision if you look historically), etc etc. Listening to the fans is a recipe for disaster. Remember Eagles fans booing McNabb? How's that working out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackass Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 QB is such a weird thing, I don't think you can generalize where the great ones are gonna come from - terrific QBs have come in as 1st overall picks (Aikman, Elway, Manning, I'll throw Palmer in there), later picks (Marino, Roeth, Favre, Brees), late picks (Brady, B Johnson, Gannon), street FAs (Warner, Delhomme), or refugees from other leagues (S Young). Is a $100 mil QB the answer? Maybe, maybe not; I think a team is closer to a title with quality QB play than it is without it, that's for sure. But there are plenty of ways to skin that cat. Isn't that true about pretty much every position? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Wings Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 What about Oakland trading for a QB such as Leftwhich? That is always a possibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Vatican Hitsquad Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 IMO that is foolish - if you let the fans coach, they'll always want you to go for it on 4th and short (wait, I agree with that more or less), start the backup QB, throw every down...well, unless it's an incompletion, then you should have run, take the draw play out of your playbook, blitz every down, etc etc. If you let the fans GM, they'll always want to pick the Heisman winner early, followed by the best local/state college heroes, spend scads of money on the biggest FAs (which is almost always a bad decision if you look historically), etc etc. Listening to the fans is a recipe for disaster. Remember Eagles fans booing McNabb? How's that working out? +1 Fans want to see teams win games and compete for a championship, not have a single spectacular College athlelete who gets crushed in the pro's because of a pourus offensive line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockerbraves Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 (edited) IMO that is foolish - if you let the fans coach, they'll always want you to go for it on 4th and short (wait, I agree with that more or less), start the backup QB, throw every down...well, unless it's an incompletion, then you should have run, take the draw play out of your playbook, blitz every down, etc etc. If you let the fans GM, they'll always want to pick the Heisman winner early, followed by the best local/state college heroes, spend scads of money on the biggest FAs (which is almost always a bad decision if you look historically), etc etc. Listening to the fans is a recipe for disaster. Remember Eagles fans booing McNabb? How's that working out? Listening to a RB or QB who says that he could do so much better only if they had a better line can be an even bigger disaster is what I'm saying. Drafting an OL doesn't guarantee winning anymore than any other position. They are both potential bust. Assuming both the OL and the high profile player ended up bust at least by picking the high profile player your fans might forgive you and for sure your fans have some excitement during the offseason. Not sure if any GM would survive a busted OL pick with the #1 or #2 position in the draft. Edited December 18, 2006 by Rockerbraves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 Listening to a RB or QB who says that he could do so much better only if they had a better line can be an even bigger disaster is what I'm saying. Drafting an OL doesn't guarantee winning anymore than any other position. They are both potential bust. I'm not saying listen to the RBs or QBs, I'm saying look at the results on the field - listen to your coaches and scouts. Assuming both the OL and the high profile player ended up bust at least by picking the high profile player your fans might forgive you and for sure your fans have some excitement during the offseason. Not sure if any GM would survive a busted OL pick with the #1 or #2 position in the draft. I really doubt that the fans would forgive you for a high-profile position player bust. Bears fans still seethe over Curtis Enis. Chargers fans are still bitter about Ryan Leaf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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