SMF Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 I think it's much more likely that Moss stays instead of Samuel. However as much as Samuel can piss me off sometimes with trying to go for the big play over the safe play I would rather have Samuel back over Moss. This is not a huge gap, but I have seen the pats win 3 SBs without the "high-powered offense" and saw them get their asses kicked in this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 If you are guaranteed a ring, yes, maybe you do put that over more money. But they blew 18-0. This is his last huge contract. I bet he gets the tag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piratesownninjas Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 However as much as Samuel can piss me off sometimes with trying to go for the big play over the safe play I would rather have Samuel back over Moss. This is not a huge gap, but I have seen the pats win 3 SBs without the "high-powered offense" and saw them get their asses kicked in this one. You can find another Samuel. It might not be easy, but it can be done. You cannot find another Randy Moss. He is the second best receiver second only to Jerry Rice. I don't think you can pass that up. You keep Moss, let Samuel go, trade the 7th pick down and get more picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4th&goal Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Moss isn't going anywhere. He as classless as the Pats. A perfect match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted February 5, 2008 Author Share Posted February 5, 2008 You can find another Samuel. It might not be easy, but it can be done. You cannot find another Randy Moss. He is the second best receiver second only to Jerry Rice. I don't think you can pass that up. You keep Moss, let Samuel go, trade the 7th pick down and get more picks. If I were BB, I'd franchise-tag Moss and give Samuel a long-term deal. I'm sure that Randy will be really good for another year or two, but it's not wise to invest a ton of money in an aging WR who beats defenses with speed alone, rather than a combination of speed, great route-running, and great hands. Marvin hasn't been able to torch defenses since about 2004, but his phenominal route-running, hands, and chemistry with his QB have kept his play at a high level since then. Throw in Moss' recent injury history and never-ending off-field issues and I don't think that giving him the $25 million+ in guaranteed money needed to convince him to stick around for 4 or 5 years on the downside of his career is a good idea. Frankly, I think they'd be better off going with somebody like Bernard Berrian for more years and less money/more cap flexibility. As for Samuel, he's smack in the prime of his career and will be the only thing close to an elite player in that secondary when Harrison either hangs up his cleats or is cut. You need to lock up a play-maker in the secondary for the long-term. Ellis Hobbs, Randall Gay, and Eugene Wilson are nice players, but they're not going to be difference-makers in the big games. Throw in the fact that Seau will likely retire very soon and that Bruschi isn't far behind, and there are going to be some major holes to fill soon. And remember that the aging defense gave it up like a $10 hooker in the 4th quarters of their last two playoff losses. If I were BB, I'd be more concerned about fixing that than locking up a big-play WR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piratesownninjas Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Moss isn't going anywhere. He as classless as the Pats. A perfect match. Moss was a model citizen the entire year. He never complained during his playoff stretch when McDanials went away from him. He didn't leave the field like a lot of the pats did with one second left on the clock. Moss is only half as bad as you guys say he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goopster24 Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Moss isn't going anywhere. He as classless as the Pats. A perfect match. Great contribution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piratesownninjas Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 If I were BB, I'd franchise-tag Moss and give Samuel a long-term deal. I'm sure that Randy will be really good for another year or two, but it's not wise to invest a ton of money in an aging WR who beats defenses with speed alone, rather than a combination of speed, great route-running, and great hands. Marvin hasn't been able to torch defenses since about 2004, but his phenominal route-running, hands, and chemistry with his QB have kept his play at a high level since then. Throw in Moss' recent injury history and never-ending off-field issues and I don't think that giving him the $25 million+ in guaranteed money needed to convince him to stick around for 4 or 5 years on the downside of his career is a good idea. Frankly, I think they'd be better off going with somebody like Bernard Berrian for more years and less money/more cap flexibility. As for Samuel, he's smack in the prime of his career and will be the only thing close to an elite player in that secondary when Harrison either hangs up his cleats or is cut. You need to lock up a play-maker in the secondary for the long-term. Ellis Hobbs, Randall Gay, and Eugene Wilson are nice players, but they're not going to be difference-makers in the big games. Throw in the fact that Seau will likely retire very soon and that Bruschi isn't far behind, and there are going to be some major holes to fill soon. And remember that the aging defense gave it up like a $10 hooker in the 4th quarters of their last two playoff losses. If I were BB, I'd be more concerned about fixing that than locking up a big-play WR. This goes against BB's philosophy if he was to sign Samuel long term. Then again, bringing in Moss this past year goes against the Patriot way as well. Randy Moss was running 4.2's this pre season and showed no signs of slowing down. His hands are amazing as well, even though he doesn't run very good routes he's still a lot more than just a one trick pony. When discussing Moss's window and Samuels windows of playing at an elite level I start to wonder how big of a window the Patriots as a team have... Whatever way they decide to go, I don't think you could go wrong in landing either of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piratesownninjas Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Great contribution. I guess you missed the memo Goopster, this is the new huddle... It consists of bashing of the patriots any chance you get... Hopefully it will end soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted February 5, 2008 Author Share Posted February 5, 2008 This goes against BB's philosophy if he was to sign Samuel long term. Ty Law was in NE for a decade, the latter half under Belichick. I don't know what he was paid during the BB years, but I imagine that it was comparable to the other elite CBs in the league. Randy Moss was running 4.2's this pre season and showed no signs of slowing down. His hands are amazing as well, even though he doesn't run very good routes he's still a lot more than just a one trick pony. Moss can run and jump, so I guess that makes him a two-trick pony. But I disagree that he has "amazing" hands on the level of guys like Marvin and Cris Carter. And he can't run routes for crap, which will greatly diminish his value when Father Time slows him down to a 4.5 in a few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Cid Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 I think you'll see the Pats use the franchise tag on Moss. That means about $8 mil next year for Moss. Then depending on who else is up, they'll do it again the following year. Randy'll hate it because two years with the franchise tag hung on him will mean no 4 year deal after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piratesownninjas Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Ty Law was in NE for a decade, the latter half under Belichick. I don't know what he was paid during the BB years, but I imagine that it was comparable to the other elite CBs in the league.Moss can run and jump, so I guess that makes him a two-trick pony. But I disagree that he has "amazing" hands on the level of guys like Marvin and Cris Carter. And he can't run routes for crap, which will greatly diminish his value when Father Time slows him down to a 4.5 in a few years. Ty Law was let go whenever he demanded top dollar. Moss doesn't have the greatest hands ever, I never said that, but his hands are incredible. To compare them to Harrison or Carter isn't a fair argument. Carter and Harrison's hands should both be enshrined in the Hall of Fame. The only player today who's hands are in the same level as Harrison or Carter might be Torry Holts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted February 5, 2008 Author Share Posted February 5, 2008 (edited) Ty Law was let go whenever he demanded top dollar. Law made $6.1 million in '03 and $7.5 million in '04. He made as much in 2004 as Champ Bailey did. Law was let go because he was 31 and had just suffered a broken foot, not because Belichick refuses to pay CBs top dollar. Edited February 5, 2008 by Bill Swerski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piratesownninjas Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Law made $6.1 million in '03 and $7.5 million in '04. He made as much in 2004 as Champ Bailey did. Law was let go because he was 31 and had just suffered a broken foot, not because Belichick refuses to pay CBs top dollar. I stand corrected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 I guess you missed the memo Goopster, this is the new huddle... It consists of bashing of the patriots any chance you get...Hopefully it will end soon. can you cry about this a little more? we didn't hear you the first 10 times. give it a rest. an 18-0 team just lost in the SB. Were you expecting pity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Big Head Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 the downside of his career this is the 2nd time youve said this. Why do you think Moss is on the downside of his carear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 this is the 2nd time youve said this. Why do you think Moss is on the downside of his carear? He's just jealous like a few other people. They said his career was over in Oakland. Bet they didn't see him breaking one of Rice's records, while setting a few more himself in the same season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted February 5, 2008 Author Share Posted February 5, 2008 He's just jealous like a few other people. They said his career was over in Oakland. Bet they didn't see him breaking one of Rice's records, while setting a few more himself in the same season. Yeah, I'm jealous of an injury-prone malcontent journeyman who can't stay out of trouble off the field and doesn't have a ring. Good one. this is the 2nd time youve said this. Why do you think Moss is on the downside of his carear? Because I think that he peaked a few years ago in MIN. He's 31 and his game almost completely revolves around out-running defensive backs. In a few years, he'll slow down (like all other WRs when they hit their mid-30's) and won't have the route-running skills to compensate for his loss in speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF409ers Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 He's just jealous like a few other people. They said his career was over in Oakland. Bet they didn't see him breaking one of Rice's records, while setting a few more himself in the same season. Key word - ONE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 doesn't have a ring. I guess everyone can now see that Moss's career is not going downhill. Since the only thing you really can hold against him is that he has no Super Bowl ring. Question: Which RB has the most TDs in a season? LT, and he's the best RB in the league. Question: Which WR has the most TDs in a season? Randy Moss, and he's the best WR in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted February 5, 2008 Author Share Posted February 5, 2008 I guess everyone can now see that Moss's career is not going downhill. He won't be burning defensive backs three years from now. Bank on it. Since the only thing you really can hold against him is that he has no Super Bowl ring. No, I can also point out that he's a massive douchebag who throws his QBs under the bus, refuses to block, runs crappy routes, doesn't play hard when the ball isn't coming his way, didn't go over the middle until this year, and gets into trouble both on and off the field. No wonder he's on his third team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Big Head Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Yeah, I'm jealous of an injury-prone malcontent journeyman who can't stay out of trouble off the field and doesn't have a ring. Good one. Because I think that he peaked a few years ago in MIN. He's 31 and his game almost completely revolves around out-running defensive backs. In a few years, he'll slow down (like all other WRs when they hit their mid-30's) and won't have the route-running skills to compensate for his loss in speed. Moss will turn 31 next week. He might be on the downside of his carear, but the downside looks pretty good to me. He is a little over 3 years younger than Owens, who is still producing at a high level. I think we will have to agree to disagree on your statement that Moss's game is all about out running defensive backs(even though that is a big part of it, and most wrs would probably be proud of that). If we were talking about Galloway id be inclined to agree with you, but Moss also has the ability to make great adjustments to the ball as it is in the air, and has outstanding hands. Also his size allows him to be a great RZ target as evidenced by the multitude of jump balls hes won over the years. As far as his future in NE goes...NE will do everything they can to keep him imo, and Id be surprised if Moss chased the potential for more money. I have to believe that at this point its more about getting a ring. He is already rich, and I dont see how a few more million bucks is going to make that much of a difference to Moss. NE has the option to franchise him, which they wont be able to do with Samuel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtra Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Question: Which WR has the most TDs in a 16 game season? Randy Moss, Fixed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeeR Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 No, "crazy talk" is that BB is certainly going to pay Moss the $20+ million in guaranteed money that he's going to command. "BB doesn't own the team so he doesn't have to. As for Moss, we'll see what he "commands." Crazy talk" is that BB needs Moss to win another SB,Not saying they necessarily "need" Moss to win another, but he obviously gives them a better chance with than without. Are you seriously denying the impact he made to that O? If I were BB, I'd franchise-tag MossWhy waste all that money, they almost won it all with crap WRs, blah blah blah Moss can run and jump, so I guess that makes him a two-trick pony. But I disagree that he has "amazing" hands on the level of guys like MarvinSo? He still has great hands. Yeah, I'm jealous of an injury-prone malcontent journeyman who can't stay out of trouble off the field and doesn't have a ring. Yeah I forgot how he had all these injuries this year and was in so much trouble and didn't rack up TDs like a pinball machine. "Good one." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 3rd Team? like Brandon Stokely, Marcus Pollard, Archie Manning, Tony Dungy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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