tazinib1 Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 Immediate impact DE? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 Immediate impact DE? His production is going to be limited based on the 3-4 defense KC is going to be playing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazinib1 Posted April 28, 2009 Author Share Posted April 28, 2009 His production is going to be limited based on the 3-4 defense KC is going to be playing. Understandable, but being a 3 down immediate starter, does that give him an edge in DE/DT heavy scoring leagues? I guess what I'm asking here is do you think he will be a top 5 DE rookie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 (edited) Understandable, but being a 3 down immediate starter, does that give him an edge in DE/DT heavy scoring leagues? I guess what I'm asking here is do you think he will be a top 5 DE rookie. have you read Defensive Scheme Matters? as for your top 5 question..i would say that he could end up being top 5 by default...I am not really enamored with this draft class and the thing that will impact the DEs even more so is going to be the "hybrids" that we need to clarify what position they will be playing...look at Orakpo as an example...if he ends up playing DE next to haynesworth with Andre Carter on the other side he could be a very very nice DE...but now there is some info coming out that he could end up playing SLB...that would be a MASSIVE hit to his value...so while we will try to churn out some rankings and answer as much as we can there are many situations that are a clear as MUD due to the quantity of hybrids that we have in this years draft. Edited April 28, 2009 by keggerz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazinib1 Posted April 28, 2009 Author Share Posted April 28, 2009 have you read Defensive Scheme Matters? as for your top 5 question..i would say that he could end up being top 5 by default...I am not really enamored with this draft class and the thing that will impact the DEs even more so is going to be the "hybrids" that we need to clarify what position they will be playing...look at Orakpo as an example...if he ends up playing DE next to haynesworth with Andre Carter on the other side he could be a very very nice DE...but now there is some info coming out that he could end up playing SLB...that would be a MASSIVE hit to his value...so while we will try to churn out some rankings and answer as much as we can there are many situations that are a clear as MUD due to the quantity of hybrids that we have in this years draft. I have not. Thanks for pointing me to it. Great info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tford Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 (edited) 3-4 DEs tend to score poorly because of their primary function changing from edge rush to run support and sucking up blocks. Guys like Suggs are the exception but I'd argue that he's not a pure 3-4 five technique player. Lines from the elite fantasy options as a 3-4 end look like 40 solos 20 assists and about 3-6 sacks. Those are the elite options like Shaun Ellis (12th) and Aaron Smith (17th) Looking at ATAP's top 30, there were only 5 (maybe 6) 3-4 DEs in there. The aforementioned two DEs along with Kenyon Coleman, Richard Seymour, Justin Smith (and maybe Darnell Dockett but he played in a hybrid 3-4). Jackson should see some increased opportunity due to a weak offense IMO but would be hardpressed to approach elite options at DE. Edit: Forgot Seymour and Smith Edited April 28, 2009 by Tford Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazinib1 Posted April 28, 2009 Author Share Posted April 28, 2009 3-4 DEs tend to score poorly because of their primary function changing from edge rush to run support and sucking up blocks. Guys like Suggs are the exception but I'd argue that he's not a pure 3-4 five technique player. Lines from the elite fantasy options as a 3-4 end look like 40 solos 20 assists and about 3-6 sacks. Those are the elite options like Shaun Ellis (12th) and Aaron Smith (17th) Looking at ATAP's top 30, there were only 4 (maybe 5) 3-4 DEs in there. The aforementioned two DEs along with Kenyon Coleman, Richard Seymour (and maybe Darnell Dockett but he played in a hybrid 3-4). Jackson should see some increased opportunity due to a weak offense IMO but would be hardpressed to approach elite options at DE. Edit: Forgot Seymour Understood and thats so true in 99% of IDP leagues. However, this league specifically is a DT/DE dominated IDP league. I believe there were 20 DT/DEs ranked in the top 100 in scoring. I just hope I got a guy that can approach those kind of numbers is all. But I'm alittle lazy right now to post the scoring so I guess I can't expect a more concentrated response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tford Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 Understood and thats so true in 99% of IDP leagues. However, this league specifically is a DT/DE dominated IDP league. I believe there were 20 DT/DEs ranked in the top 100 in scoring. I just hope I got a guy that can approach those kind of numbers is all. But I'm alittle lazy right now to post the scoring so I guess I can't expect a more concentrated response. If the scoring is big play oriented (sacks, FF, FR etc.) score much higher than you'd expect, I'd still steer clear of Jackson. But if the scoring is tackle oriented, you could probably take a flier. The problem I have with him is not going to be his play. It's going to be the undersized nose tackle beside him. Tank Tyler is going to be, by far, the smallest 3-4 nose tackle in the league. Unless he can dominate the LOS, I see Jackson getting eliminated on many plays by the free guard if Tyler cannot suck up the second block. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazinib1 Posted April 28, 2009 Author Share Posted April 28, 2009 If the scoring is big play oriented (sacks, FF, FR etc.) score much higher than you'd expect, I'd still steer clear of Jackson. But if the scoring is tackle oriented, you could probably take a flier. The problem I have with him is not going to be his play. It's going to be the undersized nose tackle beside him. Tank Tyler is going to be, by far, the smallest 3-4 nose tackle in the league. Unless he can dominate the LOS, I see Jackson getting eliminated on many plays by the free guard if Tyler cannot suck up the second block. Pretty good response none the less lol. Thanks T!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Immediate impact DE? A 5 technique impact player? Yes since you and I are in one league together he should be DROY and should be drafted in the 1st round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazinib1 Posted May 1, 2009 Author Share Posted May 1, 2009 A 5 technique impact player? Yes since you and I are in one league together he should be DROY and should be drafted in the 1st round. lol nice. I'll target him in the 4th/5th round and be happy about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpwallace49 Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 One thing not covered in that extremely well written article is the new evolution of defense that switches between 3-4 and 4-3 looks. KC will be a perfect example of that until they can completely revamp their personnel. Tyson will play DE in theor 3-4 look, and either switch to DT or slide outside when they use a 4-3. IMO they will use more 3-4 looks this year because I just dont think they have enough LBs to pull an effective 3-4 off but they have guys like Tank McBride and Babin that can play "hybrid" DE/LB and give a 4-3 "look" but do more dropbacks and zone blitz playcalling. Thier new defensive coordinator comes from Arizona where guys like Antonio Smith and Berry had limited success in both sacks and tackles. But when they switched to a 4-3 look, Travis Laboy (when Healthy) put his hand down and rushed the passer. Personally I tghink Tyson will get moved inside on passing downs, limiting his effectiveness at both tackles and sacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zooty Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 lol nice. I'll target him in the 4th/5th round and be happy about it. He'll be long gone You should pull the trigger much earlier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazinib1 Posted May 1, 2009 Author Share Posted May 1, 2009 (edited) He'll be long goneYou should pull the trigger much earlier I agree..except in leagues I'm in with Randall then I can wait. Edited May 1, 2009 by tazinib1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 Taz knows nose tackles are much more valuable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazinib1 Posted May 2, 2009 Author Share Posted May 2, 2009 Taz knows nose tackles are much more valuable. Knows nose....well played sir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zooty Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 Darin may be taking him early Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 He'll be long goneYou should pull the trigger much earlier Yup, agree.... obviously, see below: Darin may be taking him early He somehow slipped to 4.07 in The Huddle's current mock (stay tuned for results). I don't see how he slips that far.... let alone goes after guys like Orakpo (who I'm also HUGH on) and Maybin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazinib1 Posted May 7, 2009 Author Share Posted May 7, 2009 Yup, agree.... obviously, see below: He somehow slipped to 4.07 in The Huddle's current mock (stay tuned for results). I don't see how he slips that far.... let alone goes after guys like Orakpo (who I'm also HUGH on) and Maybin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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