WaterMan Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 It's hard for me to validate Vick's actions because of learned environmental factors. To be sure he has faced a penalty stronger then any instance of animal cruelty that I have ever seen. I've grown up on a family farm and I've been a hunter/fisherman my entire life. Working alongside animals and being closer to the cycle of life and death gives you a real understanding for individuals who find a certain zeal in the death part. I guess I have more of a disdain for him because of all the factors involved. It wasn't just that he was a dog fighter, it was the conditions in which he kept his animals, the manner in which he deemed an animal unfit to live, and then how euthanized them. Cruelty and neglect always seem to go hand in hand for some reason. There is nothing worse then seeing an animal euthanized by asphyxiation. It goes to the core of what's the character of a man's soul. It shows a window that few want to see, because it's largely indicative of other violent tendencies. If a person can find no big deal in hanging a dog, what else will he find as no big deal? He's not pimpin or stabbin anyone though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbpfan1231 Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 There are a lot of guys that have done a lot worse things than Michael Vick that are still in NFL. Leonard Little and Donte' Stallworth immediately come to mind. Both of them killed someone while driving drunk, and had less of a penalty than Michael Vick for killing dogs. And let's not even get into the amount of guys who have had domestic abuse charges or convictions. Vick has served his time. It amazes me the outrage for Vick and the lack thereof for others. I am not sure if this post was in reference to my post slightly above it??? I assume it was because I call Vick a POS. What I don't like is when people come in and say "well what about this guy or this guy". They are ALL POS. Where did I say Vick is the only POS?? Little = POS Ray Lewis = POS and Vick = POS. I don't think these guys change overnight and this was not the only thing Vick did that showed he was a POS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh 0ne Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 How do you feel about Little and Stallworth? And do you complain as vociferously? Who's complaining? I gave you my opinion of Vick, while you apparently suggest that what he did is no big deal, he served his time for it, and all should be forgotten. I think Little and Stallworth deserved what they got as well. They are murderers. Just because they served their time, probably found God, doesn't mean it never happened and should be forgotten. Sorry, but you have to live with the decision you make, they don't just "go away" because you went to jail or because you're a professional athlete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljbrun Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 It's hard for me to validate Vick's actions because of learned environmental factors. To be sure he has faced a penalty stronger then any instance of animal cruelty that I have ever seen... My understanding is that Vick did not face charges nor serve time for animal cruelty. He was convicted and sentenced for running & sponsoring dog fighting operations which crossed state lines. I've been told that in Virginia, animal cruelty is punishable by up to 5 years for each count. If this is true he could have faced multiple counts and been sentenced to many more years in Virginia prison. What if a person is from an enviornment that condones this horrific action? I understand that at some point, he likely understood what he did was inhumane, but after years of it being a part of the fabric of his upbringing, I imagine it was hard to change (especially if reports that even the law looked the other way in the Hamptons were true). I think there's a lot of truth here. While the idea of such cruelty is totally foreign to me. I do recognize that there are significant cultural differences, even within the US, that may make it difficult or impossible to understand how some people do what they do. It doesn't make it right. It just means that I can understand how they can feel differently. Leonard Little and Donte' Stallworth immediately come to mind. Both of them killed someone while driving drunk, and had less of a penalty than Michael Vick for killing dogs. I realize many may not agree, but to me the fact that someone was killed while these men were driving drunk and nobody was killed while many of us on this board have driven drunk in the past is largely a matter of luck. I would find much stiffer penalties for drunk driving to be a good thing as well as money spent on developing passive ways to prevent drunks from driving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 Who's complaining? I gave you my opinion of Vick, while you apparently suggest that what he did is no big deal, he served his time for it, and all should be forgotten. I think Little and Stallworth deserved what they got as well. They are murderers. Just because they served their time, probably found God, doesn't mean it never happened and should be forgotten. Sorry, but you have to live with the decision you make, they don't just "go away" because you went to jail or because you're a professional athlete. I just find it interesting that when the subject of Vick comes up, there are a lot of very strong opinions. Usually very angry. I don't think the feelings towards Stallworth and Little are quite as strong, and I wonder why. It just seems to me that some people value the life of dogs over the life of humans. And that I find strange. Do Stallworth, Little, and Vick not deserve the right to make a living? While I agree, what they did cannot be forgotten, they have served their time, and they can be forgiven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh 0ne Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 I just find it interesting that when the subject of Vick comes up, there are a lot of very strong opinions. Usually very angry. I don't think the feelings towards Stallworth and Little are quite as strong, and I wonder why. It just seems to me that some people value the life of dogs over the life of humans. And that I find strange. Do Stallworth, Little, and Vick not deserve the right to make a living? While I agree, what they did cannot be forgotten, they have served their time, and they can be forgiven. I think a lot of people can relate to making a mistake by getting behind the wheel after a few too many drinks. I don't think a lot of people can relate to torturing, mutilating, and killing dogs in the name of dog fighting. I think a lot of people view one as a one time mistake although the consequences are worse, and the other as an ongoing, pre-meditated crime. Maybe that's where it comes from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 I think a lot of people can relate to making a mistake by getting behind the wheel after a few too many drinks. I don't think a lot of people can relate to torturing, mutilating, and killing dogs in the name of dog fighting. I think a lot of people view one as a one time mistake although the consequences are worse, and the other as an ongoing, pre-meditated crime. Maybe that's where it comes from. Our animal fighting today got it's start with English colonies fighting animals. That "sport" stayed in the South even while outlawed. That's how USC Gamecocks got their name, from someone who described them as like fighting cocks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 I think a lot of people can relate to making a mistake by getting behind the wheel after a few too many drinks. I don't think a lot of people can relate to torturing, mutilating, and killing dogs in the name of dog fighting. I think a lot of people view one as a one time mistake although the consequences are worse, and the other as an ongoing, pre-meditated crime. Maybe that's where it comes from. I see your point. But Little drove drunk again. Iif you ask the average NFL fan who Leonard Little is, they have no idea. But they know who Michael Vick is, and usually have a strong opinion about it. I just find that strange. We haven't talked about those player's with domestic issues/violence with women either. That's worse than abusing dogs, isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunday Couch Potatoe Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 I think a lot of people can relate to making a mistake by getting behind the wheel after a few too many drinks. I don't think a lot of people can relate to torturing, mutilating, and killing dogs in the name of dog fighting. I think a lot of people view one as a one time mistake although the consequences are worse, and the other as an ongoing, pre-meditated crime. Maybe that's where it comes from. Exactly my point pre-meditated is where I was coming from. I absolutely do not condone drunk driving and if you make that decision to get behind the wheel while intoxicated and kill or injure someone then you will have to pay for your crime. Do I think that these guys are a POS for making a decision to get behind the wheel after drinking? No because I think you could say the majority of the people on this board have one time or another done the same thing. And yes you regret your decision later and thank your lucky stars nothing happened while you were in idiot land! What bothers me is a violent crime that continues over and over again. And yes I would be devastated just as much if a loved one was killed by a drunk driver as if they were killed by a murderer. But it will be a little easier to forgive someone for a mistake than an intentional act they commited on my family member. Everyone has their own opinion this is mine whether it's right or wrong! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunday Couch Potatoe Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 I see your point. But Little drove drunk again. Iif you ask the average NFL fan who Leonard Little is, they have no idea. But they know who Michael Vick is, and usually have a strong opinion about it. I just find that strange. We haven't talked about those player's with domestic issues/violence with women either. That's worse than abusing dogs, isn't it? Abusing anything usually leads to abusing everything it is a mental state of mind and is a horrible act PERIOD. So do I think that Vick would have it in him to abuse a human being as well probably as he has no respect for anything including himself. POS in a nutshell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 On a side note, I find it crazy that Plaxico Burress shoots HIMSELF in the leg, and his punishment is gonna end up being worse than all three of the guys predominantly mentioned in this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i_am_the_swammi Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 Abusing anything usually leads to abusing everything it is a mental state of mind and is a horrible act PERIOD. So do I think that Vick would have it in him to abuse a human being as well probably as he has no respect for anything including himself. POS in a nutshell. So I guess the idea that Vick and others who were raised in an enviornment where dog fighting was as common to them as wiffle ball was to you and I might not even see it or realize it's "abuse"? I certainly believe that he knew it was looked at as evil once he got old enough to understand...but by that point, it was engrained in his everyday life. Again, I think dog fighting and abuse is a ghastly series of acts.....but I am certainly in no position to judge another human on how they were raised, and what led them to perform those acts. All I know for sure is that once he was caught, punished, and continually educated abou the "sports" ill-effects, it hasn't happened since. Thats all I can evaluate fairly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunday Couch Potatoe Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 So I guess the idea that Vick and others who were raised in an enviornment where dog fighting was as common to them as wiffle ball was to you and I might not even see it or realize it's "abuse"? I certainly believe that he knew it was looked at as evil once he got old enough to understand...but by that point, it was engrained in his everyday life. Again, I think dog fighting and abuse is a ghastly series of acts.....but I am certainly in no position to judge another human on how they were raised, and what led them to perform those acts. All I know for sure is that once he was caught, punished, and continually educated abou the "sports" ill-effects, it hasn't happened since. Thats all I can evaluate fairly. So they should be slapping his parents as well then! I have 3 sons and raise my children to respect everything and anything. So the parenting gone wrong that I hear in all these cases of people doing ghastly things in our world is just another vote from me that you should have to have a license to be a parent. All these POS raising POS these days is getting old!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 I think a lot of people can relate to making a mistake by getting behind the wheel after a few too many drinks. I don't think a lot of people can relate to torturing, mutilating, and killing dogs in the name of dog fighting. I think a lot of people view one as a one time mistake although the consequences are worse, and the other as an ongoing, pre-meditated crime. Maybe that's where it comes from. What he said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramhock Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 Vick can't move like he used to & is dumb as a piece of lint. But I have been watching football for 40+ years & he is a tight spiral throwing SOB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 Vick can't move like he used to & is dumb as a piece of lint. But I have been watching football for 40+ years & he is a tight spiral throwing SOB with below average accuracy. fixed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpwallace49 Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 Whether you kill a person or a dog, you are a POS. I dont differentiate. I dont see how it is different that any company refusing to hire a felon after they get released from prison. If the company says "we dont hire felons" then you are not eligible. Too bad that the NBA, MLB and NFL will never adopt this rule . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skylive5 Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 Whether you kill a person or a dog, you are a POS. I dont differentiate. I dont see how it is different that any company refusing to hire a felon after they get released from prison. If the company says "we dont hire felons" then you are not eligible. Too bad that the NBA, MLB and NFL will never adopt this rule . . . They can't afford to....a good portion of the players in their respective leagues would be gone and they wouldn't be able to field a team. (In the NBAs case... they would have no one left at all and would have to fold the league.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowboutthemCowboys Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 I just find it interesting that when the subject of Vick comes up, there are a lot of very strong opinions. Usually very angry. I don't think the feelings towards Stallworth and Little are quite as strong, and I wonder why. It just seems to me that some people value the life of dogs over the life of humans. And that I find strange. In my years on this planet I've found more people that I dislike than dogs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinity Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 This is the final time i will ever fully state my opinion on this topic in this thread. I may reply, but this is how i feel. He housed a dog fighting ring and overall did horrible things do those dogs. That is a fact. He was convicted and served 2 years in jail for it. He is the only person who truthfully knows if he has changed or not. Regardless, he payed his dues and deserves a second chance. This season he worked his ass off even knowing he would have minimal playing time. That says something about his character in my eyes at least. I don't condone what he did, nor do i like it. Bottom line, he has earned another shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 They can't afford to....a good portion of the players in their respective leagues would be gone and they wouldn't be able to field a team. (In the NBAs case... they would have no one left at all and would have to fold the league.) That's why I laugh at people who expect everyone who plays in the NFL to be class acts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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