Manning's future in Indy in doubt?

[LooGie]

JaMarcus Russel . . . David Carr . . . Alex Smith . . . Tim Couch . . . There have been a lot of QB's taken #1 with a lot of question marks about their pro potential. Frankly, there have been a few that has "BUST POTENTIAL" written all over them. Like the four I mentioned. Luck is the closest thing to a sure thing you can get.

I really must be missing the point. All you did was prove my point, imo. Alll those hyped up QBs. They busted. They still went high as hell. Why is Luck any different? I'm not saying he'll bust. I'm doing is saying it's the same thing every year with hyped up QBs. NONE of them will EVER be Peyton. Everyone acts like it's a no brainer to take a QB that has the hype, but look at that list.

 

I think it proves my point, totally and completely .

[CaptainHook]

A tad unfair to Alex Smith to call him a bust, IMO.

[LooGie]

That just never seems to happen. How many of us want to do the same amount of work for less money than agreed and teach your replacement?

Peyton has done it before, and didn't the Colts offer him a crapload of money last year, and he said to pay him exactly what Brady was going to be paid (in other words, they were going to pay him more, and he said no, pay me just what Brady is getting paid)?

 

Peyton is all class. if they can rework the contract, I have no doubt he will.

[CaptainHook]

I really must be missing the point. All you did was prove my point, imo. Alll those hyped up QBs. They busted. They still went high as hell. Why is Luck any different? I'm not saying he'll bust. I'm doing is saying it's the same thing every year with hyped up QBs. NONE of them will EVER be Peyton. Everyone acts like it's a no brainer to take a QB that has the hype, but look at that list.

 

I think it proves my point, totally and completely .

Somebody has to be drafted #1. Doesn't make them a sure-fire pick. All of those guys mentioned had a ton of questions about their pro potential. It's like having the #1 NBA draft pick and getting LeBron James or Michael Olowakandi. Yeah, they are both #1 picks. But in no universe are they equal.

[Ursa Majoris]

Would you really bracket Smith with Russell?

[CaptainHook]

Would you really bracket Smith with Russell?

Russel is the all-time #1 pick bust. A spectacularly bad pick. If you don't get a Pro-Bowler with that #1 pick, you crapped out. Up until this season, everyone would call Smith a bust.

[Ursa Majoris]

Up until this season, everyone would call Smith a bust.

Ah. Up until this season. OK.

[detlef]

Somebody has to be drafted #1. Doesn't make them a sure-fire pick. All of those guys mentioned had a ton of questions about their pro potential. It's like having the #1 NBA draft pick and getting LeBron James or Michael Olowakandi. Yeah, they are both #1 picks. But in no universe are they equal.

Exactly. LooGie, you said there's someone this hyped every year, but that's simply not true. And you were wrong with the very first guy you mentioned. Alex Smith, Dude was anything but hyped. Trust me, I'm a Niner fan. I read every freaking article there was about who we should be taking #1 and they all said the same thing. "We're stuck with the pick because nobody wants it. Maybe this Alex Smith kid will be good."

 

Of course this doesn't mean Luck can't miss. There's no sure-things. The point being, I can't remember the last time everyone was not only 100% in agreement about who should be the #1 pick, but that he was the best prospect to come out in some time.

[CaptainHook]

Of course this doesn't mean Luck can't miss. There's no sure-things. The point being, I can't remember the last time everyone was not only 100% in agreement about who should be the #1 pick, but that he was the best prospect to come out in some time.

He's probably right about it being Reggie Bush . . .

[CaptainHook]

Ah. Up until this season. OK.

I'm still not sold, I guess. 12 decent games does not erase 6 years of bad quarterbacking to me . . .

Edited December 6, 2011 by CaptainHook

[tazinib1]

It's like having the #1 NBA draft pick and getting LeBron James or Michael Olowakandi. Yeah, they are both #1 picks. But in no universe are they equal.

 

 

Let us not forget who drafted Olowakandi #1 though...the Clippers were the Matt Millen led Lions of the day.

[Ice1]

The first surgery and the latest surgery were entirely different procedures.

 

I know but the first surgery on his neck was hoped to resolve the nerve problems if memory serves and given he did not get better they went back in for a fusion.

 

It sounds like he will be fine but not so sure what will happen the first time he is crushed by a defender. Arm issues and few surgeries on the neck area along with age is not a good thing when the price tag is that high.

[detlef]

He's probably right about it being Reggie Bush . . .

Well, at least one very key person didn't agree that Bush should be the #1 pick or, well, he would have been the #1 pick.

[CaptainHook]

I know but the first surgery on his neck was hoped to resolve the nerve problems if memory serves and given he did not get better they went back in for a fusion.

 

It sounds like he will be fine but not so sure what will happen the first time he is crushed by a defender. Arm issues and few surgeries on the neck area along with age is not a good thing when the price tag is that high.

The first surgery was before the 2010 season.

 

The second surgery was the same procedure during the lockout. The third surgery was the fusion surgery.

[CaptainHook]

Well, at least one very key person didn't agree that Bush should be the #1 pick or, well, he would have been the #1 pick.

very true!

 

although I'm sure if you gave all 32 teams a shot at the #1 pick this year, SOMEBODY (:cough:Raiders:cough:) would take someone besides Luck.

Edited December 6, 2011 by CaptainHook

[Ursa Majoris]

I'm still not sold, I guess. 12 decent games does not erase 6 years of bad quarterbacking to me . . .

He's actually not been catastrophic for the two years before this year. He had to contend with Singletary before Harbaugh. I dunno, I think the kid (he's still only 27 in his seventh year) has made a decent job of his situation.

[detlef]

He's actually not been catastrophic for the two years before this year. He had to contend with Singletary before Harbaugh. I dunno, I think the kid (he's still only 27 in his seventh year) has made a decent job of his situation.

To sooth my soul, I remind myself that perhaps nobody would have been able to succeed given what Smith went through up until now. How many different OC's? I tell that to myself so I can live with the fact that it was between him and Rodgers with that pick.

[bushwacked]

A tad unfair to Alex Smith to call him a bust, IMO.

 

+1

[Ursa Majoris]

it was between him and Rodgers with that pick.

There's always that. Still, you can always console yourself by pretending you're a Chargers fan and remembering the year they lost out on Manning but managed to snag Ryan Leaf.

[Jackass]

Peyton has done it before, and didn't the Colts offer him a crapload of money last year, and he said to pay him exactly what Brady was going to be paid (in other words, they were going to pay him more, and he said no, pay me just what Brady is getting paid)?

 

Peyton is all class. if they can rework the contract, I have no doubt he will.

 

If Peyton's ok to play, would he want to re-work his contract so that he can play a year to keep a seat warm for Luck. And I just can't envision another team offering enough to be able to convince Indy to trade away Luck for another couple years with Peyton, all the while knowing, he's 1 bad hit from being done. Not to mention, the Colts are re-building; they seem old to me. I don't know the whole roster, but their best wr, rb and center only have another year or two left. Dwight Freeney ain't getting any younger either.

[BigJetsFan]

If Peyton's ok to play, would he want to re-work his contract so that he can play a year to keep a seat warm for Luck. And I just can't envision another team offering enough to be able to convince Indy to trade away Luck for another couple years with Peyton, all the while knowing, he's 1 bad hit from being done. Not to mention, the Colts are re-building; they seem old to me. I don't know the whole roster, but their best wr, rb and center only have another year or two left. Dwight Freeney ain't getting any younger either.

 

Are the colts really rebuilding? People slap that label on any team that is struggling. I am willing to bet if Peyton were healthy and able to play the way Peyton plays...the team wouldn't be "rebuilding". I wonder if the Saints would be "rebuilding" without Brees?

 

If indy is pragmatic about it, I could see them trading luck away for the right package. I think it is foolish to assume Luck is a sure thing and will succeed. His value is high....take him, trade him away and stack the team. Then in a couple of years if peyton can't go, you go after the next great thing to come out of college. By doing so, you hedge your bets on a hall of fame veteran quarterback while potentially adding some great long term stock to you team in other positions. If peyton isn't going to make it...then maybe change strategies. My 2 cents...

 

I mean for god sakes looke at Farve...Peyton could have a lot left in the tank. <that is mostly a joke>

[stevegrab]

Are the colts really rebuilding? People slap that label on any team that is struggling. I am willing to bet if Peyton were healthy and able to play the way Peyton plays...the team wouldn't be "rebuilding". I wonder if the Saints would be "rebuilding" without Brees?

 

If indy is pragmatic about it, I could see them trading luck away for the right package. I think it is foolish to assume Luck is a sure thing and will succeed. His value is high....take him, trade him away and stack the team. Then in a couple of years if peyton can't go, you go after the next great thing to come out of college. By doing so, you hedge your bets on a hall of fame veteran quarterback while potentially adding some great long term stock to you team in other positions. If peyton isn't going to make it...then maybe change strategies. My 2 cents...

 

I mean for god sakes looke at Farve...Peyton could have a lot left in the tank. <that is mostly a joke>

IMHO, no the Colts are not rebuilding. While they may have some older players, had Peyton been healthy and playing at his usual level, they'd win 10-12 games this season and be a contender in the playoffs. That is not rebuilding.

[BeeR]

Manning is going to go down as the greatest QB to ever play the game, for the entire history of the NFL and until the end of it. Period.

I know I should let this go but that is wrong. Period. Even Manning would at that. He's not even the greatest ever for the Colts.

 

No way the Colts let that slide, just because they get a chance at yet another first round QB. Every year there are QBs that slated to be the best rookie we've ever seen and blah blah.

Prospects like Luck are rare and the chance to get him much rarer. Colts would be insanely stupid to not draft him, healthy Manning or no. He's too promising and the position too important. "Settling" for a lesser QB later is a very dangerous and IMO foolish strat. But this is the overrated Polian we're talking about.

 

Hard to say due to uncertainly of the injury of course but I think Manning is on borrowed time. Even with him ideally healthy, the idea of trading the pick to stock up elsewhere and feeling it gives them a 3-4 (whatever) yr window IMO is not preferable to getting Luck and aiming for a 10-15+ yr window. Yes I know he's unproven but so would whoever else they draft instead. What if they draft (for example) some DT and OL studs and they bust? Then Manning retires and they have nothing to show. And I think (knock on wood) the odds of that are greater than Luck busting. But that said, sure, many can't-miss guys have busted, or Luck could get hurt etc etc. It's all a gamble and you go with the best odds. Hard to say what they are but IMO they lie with getting insurance with Luck and letting him step in when Manning's ready to go out, which I think is within a few years at most.

 

PS Dear Archie: shut up.

Edited December 7, 2011 by BeeR

[stevegrab]

I know I should let this go but that is wrong. Period. Even Manning would at that. He's not even the greatest ever for the Colts.

 

Prospects like Luck are rare and the chance to get him much rarer. Colts would be insanely stupid to not draft him, healthy Manning or no. He's too promising and the position too important. "Settling" for a lesser QB later is a very dangerous and IMO foolish strat. But this is the overrated Polian we're talking about.

 

Hard to say due to uncertainly of the injury of course but I think Manning is on borrowed time. Even with him ideally healthy, the idea of trading the pick to stock up elsewhere and feeling it gives them a 3-4 (whatever) yr window IMO is not preferable to getting Luck and aiming for a 10-15+ yr window. Yes I know he's unproven but so would whoever else they draft instead. What if they draft (for example) some DT and OL studs and they bust? Then Manning retires and they have nothing to show. And I think (knock on wood) the odds of that are greater than Luck busting. But that said, sure, many can't-miss guys have busted, or Luck could get hurt etc etc. It's all a gamble and you go with the best odds. Hard to say what they are but IMO they lie with getting insurance with Luck and letting him step in when Manning's ready to go out, which I think is within a few years at most.

 

PS Dear Archie: shut up.

 

That was my first thought when I read this. Although he may know what he is talking about, Peyton has to feel a little like President Carter with brother Billy opening his yap. "Gee thanks dad, why don't you just call the Colts and tell them to cut me now "

 

One more thing, while luck may be a great prospect, those people saying that we are talking about some great top prospect every year are right. Somebody in this thread said something like "he's as close to a sure thing as there is" which is a phrase we also hear every year or two about some prospect or another.

[detlef]

That was my first thought when I read this. Although he may know what he is talking about, Peyton has to feel a little like President Carter with brother Billy opening his yap. "Gee thanks dad, why don't you just call the Colts and tell them to cut me now "

 

One more thing, while luck may be a great prospect, those people saying that we are talking about some great top prospect every year are right. Somebody in this thread said something like "he's as close to a sure thing as there is" which is a phrase we also hear every year or two about some prospect or another.

But it's not. We might here it from Kiper, but his job is to make a big deal about the draft. The chorus never resonates like it is right now. Everybody who is not specifically trying to be contrarian is saying it. And, most of us who have been following the sport for some time can tell the difference between the run that Luck is getting and someone making a case for why so and so should be the #1 pick in any given year.

 

Hell, the same people who have made the argument you're agreeing with "backed it up" by pointing out specific players that were anything but hyped coming out but basically were chosen #1 by default.

Edited December 7, 2011 by detlef