Duchess Jack Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 If they aren't associated with any terrorist group - and they are doing what they are doing because the US has killed a lot of civillians in Afganistan - and if they tried to commit terrorism on account of this.... ...does this mean the war on terrorism also has the ability to make us less safe if we do not take a lot of care in how it is waged? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmarc117 Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 If they aren't associated with any terrorist group - and they are doing what they are doing because the US has killed a lot of civillians in Afganistan - and if they tried to commit terrorism on account of this.... ...does this mean the war on terrorism also has the ability to make us less safe if we do not take a lot of care in how it is waged? did those guys fly those planes into the wtc cause of the war?? or cause they simply hate us and our way of life? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duchess Jack Posted May 21, 2009 Author Share Posted May 21, 2009 (edited) did those guys fly those planes into the wtc cause of the war?? or cause they simply hate us and our way of life? I am not quite sure what you are asking here but it seems to somehow be a response to a question you chose not to answer. Edited May 21, 2009 by Duchess Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmarc117 Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 (edited) I am not quite sure what you are asking here but it seems to somehow be a response to a question you chose not to answer. the war on terror wasnt around on 9/11 or the 1st wtc attack or all of our embassy attacks. regardless of what we do, terrorists and jihadists will hate us. hope that clears it up. Edited May 21, 2009 by dmarc117 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duchess Jack Posted May 21, 2009 Author Share Posted May 21, 2009 What makes a jihadist? Usually its their upbringing, but not always. So lets cool it with the Gulliani impression and see if you can answer my question without envoking 9/11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmarc117 Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 (edited) What makes a jihadist? Usually its their upbringing, but not always. So lets cool it with the Gulliani impression and see if you can answer my question without envoking 9/11 what dont you understand. im saying it doesnt matter what we do. jihadists and extremists hate us. plain and simple. so even if we tiptoe over there, they will still hate us. so no, it does not matter how the war is waged. Edited May 21, 2009 by dmarc117 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westvirginia Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 (edited) If they aren't associated with any terrorist group - and they are doing what they are doing because the US has killed a lot of civillians in Afganistan - and if they tried to commit terrorism on account of this.... ...does this mean the war on terrorism also has the ability to make us less safe if we do not take a lot of care in how it is waged? His point is valid, even though he didn't make it very well. These guys are pizzed at a war in Afghanistan that everyone says is legitimate. Well, the war there was in response to 9/11. Ergo, he's saying that we can continue killing these people or not, they're going to be trying to kill us regardless. ETA: I think these guys are the modern-day equivalent of the Crusaders from the west of 500+ years ago. Most of them are kept in the dark and fed crap, and think "the great satan" is responsible for the fact they live in a mud hut with dysentery and inadequate food, etc. They just have access to better weapons than a sword these days. Edited May 21, 2009 by westvirginia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duchess Jack Posted May 21, 2009 Author Share Posted May 21, 2009 His point is valid, even though he didn't make it very well. These guys are pizzed at a war in Afghanistan that everyone says is legitimate. Well, the war there was in response to 9/11. Ergo, he's saying that we can continue killing these people or not, they're going to be trying to kill us regardless. ETA: I think these guys are the modern-day equivalent of the Crusaders from the west of 500+ years ago. Most of them are kept in the dark and fed crap, and think "the great satan" is responsible for the fact they live in a mud hut with dysentery and inadequate food, etc. They just have access to better weapons than a sword these days. What he is saying is Jihadist are born and not created. He's saying that there is zero catalyst to make them feel the way they do. I feel by-and-large that its the way they're brought up. But there are other ways they can be created and our actions can be one of them. Heck - I hate most of these bastards as much as H8 and Mark do but I think its important not to kid ourselves. Lets say this happened because of civilian deaths in Iraq and because we handed over tons and tons of explosives to the terrorists by not securing them and we let their country's artifacts be looted all on account of the shady reasons we went to Iraq. Can we agree that not doing things the right and careful way could also cause this sentiment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westvirginia Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 What he is saying is Jihadist are born and not created. He's saying that there is zero catalyst to make them feel the way they do. I feel by-and-large that its the way they're brought up. But there are other ways they can be created and our actions can be one of them. Heck - I hate most of these bastards as much as H8 and Mark do but I think its important not to kid ourselves. Lets say this happened because of civilian deaths in Iraq and because we handed over tons and tons of explosives to the terrorists by not securing them and we let their country's artifacts be looted all on account of the shady reasons we went to Iraq. Can we agree that not doing things the right and careful way could also cause this sentiment? I think you and I are saying much the same thing - why do you think the folks of 500+ years ago rode their horse 1000's of miles to take the "holy land" back from the evil Saracen hoards? Because they were brought up to fear the arm of the church, and the church used that power to get whatever it wanted done. I think the same thing happens in the mideast today. The jews and their evil amerikastany sponsors are the cause of all our grief. If they were out of the way then all would be butterflies and rainbows. Then when we fight back, any bit of collateral damage is blow out of proportion and termed deliberate, as further "proof" of our evil intent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 this reminds me of the chicken or the egg theory... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duchess Jack Posted May 21, 2009 Author Share Posted May 21, 2009 (edited) collateral damage is blow out of proportion and termed deliberate, as further "proof" of our evil intent. For the most part, I agree. I recall there being a rumor of a Koran being dipped in the toilet and all the middle-east went into a riot. this was a few weeks after then used American contractors’ heads as soccer balls - which was NOT a rumor and somehow okay. Nightmarish doublestandard. But on less drastic ends, they are really seeing things from a different point of view. They are in the war torn country, they are getting filled with lies by their leaders, they know full well that some of what we are saying are lies (as they are on the ground) and many are looking at this from a perspective of folk who have nothing to do with why we are bombing their country. I can see how it can be hard to be objective. This is not to excuse folk from bad actions, but I do see a big opportunity for people to blow things out of proportion Edited May 21, 2009 by Duchess Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmarc117 Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 What he is saying is Jihadist are born and not created. He's saying that there is zero catalyst to make them feel the way they do. I feel by-and-large that its the way they're brought up. But there are other ways they can be created and our actions can be one of them. Heck - I hate most of these bastards as much as H8 and Mark do but I think its important not to kid ourselves. Lets say this happened because of civilian deaths in Iraq and because we handed over tons and tons of explosives to the terrorists by not securing them and we let their country's artifacts be looted all on account of the shady reasons we went to Iraq. Can we agree that not doing things the right and careful way could also cause this sentiment? one catalyst is religion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Beatings Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 Actions have consequences... sometimes serious, sometimes fatal consequences. Regardless of why, regardless of whether they are justified or not, these guys in New York made a decision, and will now have to deal with the consequences of those actions. But to answer your question... war breeds war. How many countries tried to stay out of WWII, but were compelled to fight after watching the German machine roll over innocent people. There's always going to be someone that gets ticked off when one side kills members of the other side. So, you either don't fight wars at all, or else if you must, you fight with no hands tied with everything you have so you can WIN and end it quickly. At least that's what my Granny taught me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
untateve Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 I thought they hated us because in their view, we have American troops in land they consider holy/sacred and because we support Israel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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