Troy Smith pushing to be a Brown

[kpholmes]

The Associated Press reports top NFL Draft prospect QB Troy Smith (Ohio State) is pushing hard for this hometown team, the Cleveland Browns, to select him in the 2007 NFL Draft this year. After being named the area's outstanding collegiate athlete at the Greater Cleveland Sports Awards, Smith thanked the city's fans for their support and declared, "Hopefully, I'll get a chance to represent you guys at the next level with the Cleveland Browns," Smith said. Playing for the Browns has been a lifelong dream for the Heisman Trophy winner. "If that were to happen, that would be a dream come true because I could stay in the community and give back." The Browns will have the third or fourth overall draft choice in the first round.

 

I would think he would have to have one hell of a work out to be taken over Quinn. Is this in any way possible for him? Or is he just dreaming?

 

Browns fans, how would you feel about Smith under center?

[sacosud]

2nd round maybe, never be a #3 or #4 pick overall.

Edited January 30, 2007 by sacosud

[Bill Swerski]

Why would Quinn automatically go over Smith? Quinn had the benefit of playing under one of the best offensive minds in college football (and ALL football, for that matter). I imagine that Smith would've been at least as good as Quinn had he played for ND.

Edited January 30, 2007 by Bill Swerski

[piratesownninjas]

Why would Quinn automatically go over Smith? Quinn had the benefit of playing under one of the best offensive minds in college football (and ALL football, for that matter). I imagine that Smith would've been at least as good as Quinn had he played for ND.

 

 

Come on Bill, we all know that Brady Quinn is by far a better prospect than Troy Smith... Quinn has the prototype frame and a nice arm. He has leadership and what not, and, he played with a lot less talent around him than Troy Smith had. How many first draft picks has Troy Smith played with? How many has Quinn. People unjustly bag on Quinn, but fail to realize that he played with sup-bar talent around him. Weis's guys are now getting to the age where they're on the field. People say Quinn didnt win any big games... How could you with all of Willinghams spare recruiting classes. Remember, i'm a Michigan fan, so there is no homerism what-so-ever in me.

 

As far as Troy Smith basically pleading for the Browns to take him... He's aiming for the second round, but he could be there in the third. He's barley six feet, and didnt help his stock at all at the national championship. I think Troy Smith, at best is in the 4-6 range of quarterbacks in this draft.

[forever in debt to mo lewis]

Why would Quinn automatically go over Smith? Quinn had the benefit of playing under one of the best offensive minds in college football (and ALL football, for that matter). I imagine that Smith would've been at least as good as Quinn had he played for ND.

 

 

we all saw what kind of game smith will have when you put a rush on him and take away his security blanket(ginn)...

 

you can say quinn had the benefit of playing under one of the best offensive minds(and thats something that helps his stock remain high despite some of the lackluster showings against top teams)...but he was also playing with marginal talent...

 

as the other guy said in this thread...2nd round...and smith knows thats where hes headed...and thats what hes lobbying for

[forever in debt to mo lewis]

Come on Bill, we all know that Brady Quinn is by far a better prospect than Troy Smith... Quinn has the prototype frame and a nice arm. He has leadership and what not, and, he played with a lot less talent around him than Troy Smith had. How many first draft picks has Troy Smith played with? How many has Quinn. People unjustly bag on Quinn, but fail to realize that he played with sup-bar talent around him. Weis's guys are now getting to the age where they're on the field. People say Quinn didnt win any big games... How could you with all of Willinghams spare recruiting classes. Remember, i'm a Michigan fan, so there is no homerism what-so-ever in me.

 

As far as Troy Smith basically pleading for the Browns to take him... He's aiming for the second round, but he could be there in the third. He's barley six feet, and didnt help his stock at all at the national championship. I think Troy Smith, at best is in the 4-6 range of quarterbacks in this draft.

 

 

quinns strength and athleticism often go unmentioned around here....cant tell you how many times ive seen guys get a hand, sometimes two, wrapped around him and he gets away(not to mention his LT who was a 3 year starter was a piece of crap and killed his stock all week at the sr. bowl)...go back and watch that long run he ripped off against usc this year...pretty impressive little jaunt

[Bill Swerski]

Come on Bill, we all know that Brady Quinn is by far a better prospect than Troy Smith... Quinn has the prototype frame and a nice arm. He has leadership and what not, and, he played with a lot less talent around him than Troy Smith had.

 

Samardzija isn't top-tier talent? He would've been a first-round pick had he not decided to play baseball instead. Quinn was also a nobody before Weiss came to ND.

 

As far as Troy Smith basically pleading for the Browns to take him... He's aiming for the second round, but he could be there in the third.

 

The Browns don't have a high first-round pick?

 

we all saw what kind of game smith will have when you put a rush on him and take away his security blanket(ginn)...

 

LOL, so that was Smith's fault? His line was getting blown away from Florida's Front 7 (he was running for his life after about a second in the pocket) and they couldn't establish the run. I'd like to see how Quinn would've fared in that game.

 

you can say quinn had the benefit of playing under one of the best offensive minds(and thats something that helps his stock remain high despite some of the lackluster showings against top teams)...but he was also playing with marginal talent...

 

I don't agree that Quinn was playing with "marginal" offensive talent. His offensive talent didn't match Ohio State's, but it's not like ND is stocked with second-rate players.

 

I'm not an Ohio State fan (don't really like them at all, actually), but I think it's a complete joke that Quinn is predicted to go 4th overall, while Smith isn't going until the 2nd or 3rd round. I'd say that both are late 1st-rounders and I don't see much evidence of one being that much better than the other.

[forever in debt to mo lewis]

"im not an ohio state fan( dont like them at all actually"....

 

im guessing you dont like notre dame at all really...as youll be quick to bash brady quinn.....samardzija...yeah hes borderline 1st round talent...late first round talent....based on good hands,size, and strength....but the guy struggled to get away from athletic corners and often had balls knocked out of his hands...hes borderline 1st round talent..not top tier....and rhema mcknight was a human drop machine....quinns offensive line is suspect at best and had a 3rd down back behind him on almost every snap

 

you ever watch any notre dame games? you think brady quinn never had to run for his life? watch the games against purdue and ucla...teams with some very talented defensive ends...hell watch the michigan game too....but does he get a mulligan? nah probably not...because if yer not an ND fan, you hate em...much like the people who hate on the patriots

[piratesownninjas]

Bill,

There is no way in hell the browns would draft Troy Smith with there first round pick when he'll be there in the second.

 

Samarjdia was a border line first round pick in my mind... Maybe. You named one guy.

[forever in debt to mo lewis]

Samardzija isn't top-tier talent? He would've been a first-round pick had he not decided to play baseball instead. Quinn was also a nobody before Weiss came to ND.

The Browns don't have a high first-round pick?

LOL, so that was Smith's fault? His line was getting blown away from Florida's Front 7 (he was running for his life after about a second in the pocket) and they couldn't establish the run. I'd like to see how Quinn would've fared in that game.

I don't agree that Quinn was playing with "marginal" offensive talent. His offensive talent didn't match Ohio State's, but it's not like ND is stocked with second-rate players.

 

I'm not an Ohio State fan (don't really like them at all, actually), but I think it's a complete joke that Quinn is predicted to go 4th overall, while Smith isn't going until the 2nd or 3rd round. I'd say that both are late 1st-rounders and I don't see much evidence of one being that much better than the other.

 

 

lol yeah the browns have a high 1st round pick...but theyd be absolutely insane to take smith with it...and crucified for it before he even took a snap

[Bill Swerski]

"im not an ohio state fan( dont like them at all actually"....

 

im guessing you dont like notre dame at all really...as youll be quick to bash brady quinn.....samardzija...yeah hes borderline 1st round talent...late first round talent....based on good hands,size, and strength....but the guy struggled to get away from athletic corners and often had balls knocked out of his hands...hes borderline 1st round talent..not top tier....and rhema mcknight was a human drop machine....quinns offensive line is suspect at best and had a 3rd down back behind him on almost every snap

 

you ever watch any notre dame games? you think brady quinn never had to run for his life? watch the games against purdue and ucla...teams with some very talented defensive ends...hell watch the michigan game too....but does he get a mulligan? nah probably not...because if yer not an ND fan, you hate em...much like the people who hate on the patriots

 

 

Um, yeah, I'm down on Quinn because I'm a "hater."

 

I like Notre Dame maybe a little more than Ohio State and don't have a vested interest in either. And in case you didn't notice, Purdue's defense has absolutely sucked for the past two years, so I'm not sure why this "mulligan" is needed.

 

I'm not saying that Quinn isn't good. He obviously is. But from what I've seen, he's about Drew Brees-good. Like Brees, he did a very good job of running a complex, pass-oriented offense with little help from his running game and little talent at WR (although Samardzija is much better than Vinny Sutherland, Seth Morales, and the other crap that Brees was forced to throw at). Brees was an early 2nd-round pick, so I don't see how Quinn is a Top 5. And I still don't see evidence that he's THAT much better than Troy Smith.

[forever in debt to mo lewis]

Um, yeah, I'm down on Quinn because I'm a "hater."

 

I like Notre Dame maybe a little more than Ohio State and don't have a vested interest in either. And in case you didn't notice, Purdue's defense has absolutely sucked for the past two years, so I'm not sure why this "mulligan" is needed.

 

I'm not saying that Quinn isn't good. He obviously is. But from what I've seen, he's about Drew Brees-good. Like Brees, he did a very good job of running a complex, pass-oriented offense with little help from his running game and little talent at WR (although Samardzija is much better than Vinny Sutherland, Seth Morales, and the other crap that Brees was forced to throw at). Brees was an early 2nd-round pick, so I don't see how Quinn is a Top 5. And I still don't see evidence that he's THAT much better than Troy Smith.

 

 

purdues defense may have sucked...but do a little research on anthony spencer...look him up...the guy on the other side wasnt too shabby either....and do a little research on ryan harris the ND LT....then come back and talk...before you start telling me about the purdue defense

 

i think if anyone compares to brees...its troy smith......lol....i dont think charlies weis's offense is comparible to that of joe tillers

 

i think you usually know what you are talking about...but i think you are reaching alot here...and are way off...

[Bill Swerski]

Bill,

There is no way in hell the browns would draft Troy Smith with there first round pick when he'll be there in the second.

 

Perhaps I was unclear about this, but I'm not saying that Troy Smith should be a high first-round pick. My point was that he's being unfairly under-valued because of what happened in the championship game (blocking DEs and LBs isn't his job) and that Quinn is being over-valued because he played for Notre Dame (on NBC every Saturday!) under a great offensive mind.

 

IMO, these guys are both late first-round picks and I don't think that they should be drafted more than 10 picks apart. I see little evidence that one is that much better than the other and think it's a joke that Quinn is expecte to go 4th overall with Smith not going until AT LEAST the 2nd round.

[piratesownninjas]

Perhaps I was unclear about this, but I'm not saying that Troy Smith should be a high first-round pick. My point was that he's being unfairly under-valued because of what happened in the championship game (blocking DEs and LBs isn't his job) and that Quinn is being over-valued because he played for Notre Dame (on NBC every Saturday!) under a great offensive mind.

 

IMO, these guys are both late first-round picks and I don't think that they should be drafted more than 10 picks apart. I see little evidence that one is that much better than the other and think it's a joke that Quinn is expecte to go 4th overall with Smith not going until AT LEAST the 2nd round.

 

 

And you expect too much out of him simply because of Weis. Quinn and Samarjda were the only serious talent on that offense. Walker was an average back, and the line was nothing that impressed anyone. If Quinn had Michigans offense, or Ohio States offense, this argument wouldnt be taking place.

[Bill Swerski]

purdues defense may have sucked...but do a little research on anthony spencer...look him up...the guy on the other side wasnt too shabby either....and do a little research on ryan harris the ND LT....then come back and talk...before you start telling me about the purdue defense

 

I admittedly didn't pay much attention to Purdue's defense this year and I didn't see the ND game. But what I can say is that Purdue's defense was bad and is really irrelevant to this discussion anyway.

 

i think if anyone compares to brees...its troy smith......lol....i dont think charlies weis's offense is comparible to that of joe tillers

 

So, tell me why Quinn should be Top 5 guy, while Brees was a 2nd-rounder? Brees played with a better line (Matt Light, for example), but Quinn had better skill-position talent. I honestly don't see much of a difference between the two. Neither had good running games, their skill-position talent was average at best, and both had to air it out to overcome the points that their crappy defenses would give up. I really don't see much of a difference between these two.

[Bill Swerski]

If Quinn had Michigans offense, or Ohio States offense, this argument wouldnt be taking place.

 

 

How many NFL QBs have Lloyd Carr or Jim Tressell developed?

 

Drew Brees didn't have much skill-position talent around him either, yet he wasn't drafted until the 2nd round. What makes Quinn so much better?

[forever in debt to mo lewis]

I admittedly didn't pay much attention to Purdue's defense this year and I didn't see the ND game. But what I can say is that Purdue's defense was bad and is really irrelevant to this discussion anyway.

So, tell me why Quinn should be Top 5 guy, while Brees was a 2nd-rounder? Brees played with a better line (Matt Light, for example), but Quinn had better skill-position talent. I honestly don't see much of a difference between the two. Neither had good running games, their skill-position talent was average at best, and both had to air it out to overcome the points that their crappy defenses would give up. I really don't see much of a difference between these two.

 

 

purdues defense put 3 guys in the nfl last year...two defensive ends...and a safety....and ive seen spencer projected anywhere from late 1st to the 3rd round...so theres some talent there...definitley some guys that can get to a qb...

 

my thing is...yer saying that smith was being chased by floridas front 7...well thats what happens when you dont have great athletes on the outside(ginn)...teams dont respect them...and they are able to start sending people...nd hasnt had any superb athletes on the outside to make me people pay if they blitz and miss...and quinn has faced his share of heat and done a good job avoiding it with his improved footwork/pocket presence and strength

 

brees's offense in college was a gimmicky fast break offense....he doenst have great measurables...quinns offense is a bit more methodical

 

one could argue that brees has been surrounded with some pretty good talent in both his pro stops

[Bill Swerski]

purdues defense put 3 guys in the nfl last year...two defensive ends...and a safety....and ive seen spencer projected anywhere from late 1st to the 3rd round...so theres some talent there...definitley some guys that can get to a qb...

 

And they also got torched by mediocre offenses. The Colts have a few good defensive players and that hasn't stopped Tom Brady from picking them apart.

 

my thing is...yer saying that smith was being chased by floridas front 7...well thats what happens when you dont have great athletes on the outside(ginn)...teams dont respect them...and they are able to start sending people...nd hasnt had any superb athletes on the outside to make me people pay if they blitz and miss...and quinn has faced his share of heat and done a good job avoiding it with his improved footwork/pocket presence and strength

 

Samardzija may not be a "great" athlete, but he's certianly a good one and defenses did respect him.

 

Smith shouldn't take the blame for what happened in the Florida game. Their offense was completely one-dimensional and his line couldn't hold a pocket for more than a second.

 

brees's offense in college was a gimmicky fast break offense....he doenst have great measurables...quinns offense is a bit more methodical

 

Tiller's offense was sort of the college version of what Martz ran in St. Louis. Drew has always had a pretty average arm and mediocre mobility, but he's always been an accurate passer and is very smart. The latter two traits are what you look for in an NFL QB. Even noodle-armed wussies like Pennington can get by on accuracy and intelligence in the NFL.

 

I still don't think that Quinn is much better than Brees was in college. I could see him going 10 or 15 picks higher, but Top 5??? I think that's a real stretch.

[forever in debt to mo lewis]

And they also got torched by mediocre offenses. The Colts have a few good defensive players and that hasn't stopped Tom Brady from picking them apart.

Samardzija may not be a "great" athlete, but he's certianly a good one and defenses did respect him.

 

Smith shouldn't take the blame for what happened in the Florida game. Their offense was completely one-dimensional and his line couldn't hold a pocket for more than a second.

Tiller's offense was sort of the college version of what Martz ran in St. Louis. Drew has always had a pretty average arm and mediocre mobility, but he's always been an accurate passer and is very smart. The latter two traits are what you look for in an NFL QB. Even noodle-armed wussies like Pennington can get by on accuracy and intelligence in the NFL.

 

I still don't think that Quinn is much better than Brees was in college. I could see him going 10 or 15 picks higher, but Top 5??? I think that's a real stretch.

 

 

trust me...brady quinn has had his success against purdue....im saying..he has shown an ability to make plays/good decisions in the face of a rush...and much like you say about smith...why should quinn take the blame for what happened in his games against top 5 teams?

 

i dunno if id compare tillers offense to that of mike martz...maybe they had similar pass to run ratios....but tillers offense is much more pitch and catch

 

yep noodle armed wussies like pennington can get by in the nfl..and if thats all you want to do, is get by, then thats fine...but being under the tutelage of weis and having the measurables, poise, and athleticism that quinn posseses is what makes him more intriguing...he could be more than a guy that just "gets by"

[Bill Swerski]

trust me...brady quinn has had his success against purdue....im saying..he has shown an ability to make plays/good decisions in the face of a rush...and much like you say about smith...why should quinn take the blame for what happened in his games against top 5 teams?

 

I'm not saying that Quinn should take blame for what happened against Purdue (you brought this up, remember?).

 

i dunno if id compare tillers offense to that of mike martz...maybe they had similar pass to run ratios....but tillers offense is much more pitch and catch

 

Tiller utilized the TE a heck of a lot more than Martz did (probably because Stratton was their best receiving option). But I think that it goes beyond that. Tiller's offense used A LOT of 4-WR sets. Even on 3rd-and-2, Brees would be in the shotgun with four wideouts.

 

yep noodle armed wussies like pennington can get by in the nfl..and if thats all you want to do, is get by, then thats fine...but being under the tutelage of weis and having the measurables, poise, and athleticism that quinn posseses is what makes him more intriguing...he could be more than a guy that just "gets by"

 

Well, he damn well better be if he's a freaking Top 5 pick.

 

But I still don't see how that makes Quinn any better than Brees when he came out of college. Brees certainly didn't lack poise, pocket presence, and mobility within the pocket.

[forever in debt to mo lewis]

as far as samardzija...yeah hes a pretty good athlete...and defenses did respect him....but can you line a corner up on him and play man...and send blitzers....sure....yer alot less likely to do that if you have a ginn or a gonzalez on the outside who can beat that coverage and get over the top on you...and make you pay....quinn has yet to play with a guy who can truely stretch the field

[Bill Swerski]

quinn has yet to play with a guy who can truely stretch the field

 

 

Just like Troy Smith has yet to play under a coach who developed a halfway decent NFL QB.

[forever in debt to mo lewis]

I'm not saying that Quinn should take blame for what happened against Purdue (you brought this up, remember?).

Tiller utilized the TE a heck of a lot more than Martz did (probably because Stratton was their best receiving option). But I think that it goes beyond that. Tiller's offense used A LOT of 4-WR sets. Even on 3rd-and-2, Brees would be in the shotgun with four wideouts.

Well, he damn well better be if he's a freaking Top 5 pick.

 

But I still don't see how that makes Quinn any better than Brees when he came out of college. Brees certainly didn't lack poise, pocket presence, and mobility within the pocket.

 

 

 

hahah swerski? i dont think you were following what i was saying... im talking about what you said in regards to troy smith...why should he take the blame for the florida loss....and im saying why should quinn take the blame for the losses against michigan, usc, and ohio state...which alot of people knock him for....

 

you said this about the purdue defense

 

"And they also got torched by mediocre offenses. The Colts have a few good defensive players and that hasn't stopped Tom Brady from picking them apart."

 

and i was saying that quinn did indeed have some good games against purdue...even when they were able to get in his face...i think thats part of what makes him attractive...his poise

 

the type of offense that brady quinn ran in college is much more widely used and accepted.......tillers offense was wide open....not the type of offense many nfl teams were/are using...so there had to some reservations as to how he would adapt to more of a pro style...under center

 

hey brees is a heck of a qb...and was a great bargain...but theres more than one reason he was a 2nd rounder...and if ya dont see it...i dunno what to say...yer talking about the likes of chad pennington and "getting by"....

[forever in debt to mo lewis]

Just like Troy Smith has yet to play under a coach who developed a halfway decent NFL QB.

 

 

i can see how this will continue to go...theres nothing i can say to change your mind

 

brady quinn=troy smith

 

final

[Bring Back Pat!!!]

Ok Bill, try this on for size:

 

Troy Smith is 6-1

 

I don't have a database handy, but the only succesful NFL QB that is currently 6-1 or under is Brees. And you can't use the exception to the rule as a reason to promote a guy. Tarvaris Jackson is also 6-1, but he's 230+, Smith is 210. He's just too damn small.