2 basketball officiating questions

[wcd480]

I am in a league that is pretty well officiated except for one official who acts like he is channeling a pschic bond with James Naismith. He always seems to officiate my team's games and well... he doesn't like me and another guy on my team because we killed his team (he was a player not a ref) in the playoffs of a different league.

I am not usually a hot head when it comes to officialting because I have done it and I know how hard it is, but this guy seems to really have it out for us and he is constantly calling us for ticky-tack fouls and for traveling (me in particuliar). I can't argue the fouls because that is just something you need to deal with but my/his arguement with traveling generally comes down to this, and it may be hard to explain without a picture, but here goes:

From a point with an established pivot foot, the player takes a step with his non-piviot foot. He then initiates his dribble as he is lifting his pivot foot off the ground. The ref argues that the ball needs to leave your hand before you take that first step with the NON-pivot foot. I disagree with that I think the ball must leave your hand before you can lift your PIVOT foot.

 

ie 1. left foot is pivot foot

2. take a step to the right with right foot

3. as you are doing so, you are initiating a dribble to the right

4. lift your left foot to make the move

5. continue to the right

 

he calls me for traveling between 2 and 3

 

 

second question unrelated but I am confused about it as well because the rule book is not all that clear on the 3 second in the lane rule.

The 3 second clock restarts when the ball hits the rim, correct? I have always thought that it does for a player who takes the shot but not his teammates. Does the 3 second count restart for all offensive players following a shot that hits the rim or just for the player who took the shot?

[chester]

I know nothing about basketball, but I do know that no matter what I or anybody else thinks, the two of you are not going to ever agree and what is decided in a FF forum is going to have no effect on it. He's the ref, you have to abide by his rules, wrong or right.

[wildcat2334]

I feel for ya. It seems like every league I have played in the last few years- the refs always have personal bias and make calls for/against guys they may be cool with or, or have a beef with.

 

Why do you think all the NBA guys try and buddy up to the refs- bc it works, if he doesn't like you- you are not going to get the benefit of the doubt in most cases - by far the most "personally" refereed and inluenced sport, I I suggest you smooth him over

 

As for the calls, yep- we all have those refs that miss the obvious calls right in front of them, but love making the foul, palming, traveling call from across the court.

 

- yer right- it is based off yer pivot foot leaving the floor- you see it all the time these days- guy jab steps with the right foot, dribble drives to the left and they make the traveling call. As long as you dribble before your pivot leaves the floor- not a walk.

 

- 3 seconds re-sets for all offensive players, not just the shooter

[Ziachild007]

I am pretty sure Down Goes Frazia does some officiating, not 100% sure he does basketball though. Maybe you could PM him and get some feedback.

[godtomsatan]

Do you have the over or the under?

[darin3]

I used to ref hoops and have coached as well. Been playing at a rather competitive level for many years as well although my fat azz doesn't look like much of a basketball player at this point.

 

In any case, the second question's answer first:

 

From the NBA rulebook:

 

Section VII

 

a. An offensive player shall not remain for more than three seconds in that part of his free throw lane between the endline and extended 4' (imaginary) off the court and the farther edge of the free throw line while the ball is in control of his team.

 

b. Allowance may be made for a player who, having been in this area for less than three seconds, is in the act of shooting at the end of the third second. Under these conditions, the 3-second count is discontinued while his continuous motion is toward the basket. If that continuous motion ceases, the previous 3-second count is continued.

 

So it has nothing to do with the rim at all. And it resets for all offensive players, not just the shooter.

 

And as for the first question, the entire section on traveling:

 

Section XIV-Traveling

a. A player who receives the ball while standing still may pivot, using either foot as the pivot foot.

b. A player who receives the ball while he is progressing or upon completion of a dribble, may use a two-count rhythm in coming to a stop, passing or shooting the ball.

The first count occurs:

(1) As he receives the ball, if either foot is touching the floor at the time he receives it.

(2) As the foot touches the floor, or as both feet touch the floor simultaneously after he receives the ball, if both feet are off the floor when he receives it.

The second occurs:

(1) After the count of one when either foot touches the floor, or both feet touch the floor simultaneously.

c. A player who comes to a stop on the count of one may pivot, using either foot as the pivot foot.

d. A player who comes to a stop on the count of two, with one foot in advance of the other, may pivot using only the rear foot as the pivot foot.

e. A player who comes to a stop on the count of two, with neither foot in advance of the other, may use either foot as the pivot foot.

f. In starting a dribble after (1) receiving the ball while standing still, or (2) coming to a legal stop, the ball must be out of the player's hand before the pivot foot is raised off the floor.

g. If a player, with the ball in his possession, raises his pivot foot off the floor, he must pass or shoot before his pivot foot returns to the floor. If he drops the ball while in the air, he may not be the first to touch the ball.

h. A player who falls to the floor while holding the ball, or while coming to a stop, may not gain an advantage by sliding.

i. A player who attempts a field goal may not be the first to touch the ball if it fails to touch the backboard, basket ring or another player.

PENALTY: Loss of ball. The ball is awarded to the opposing team at the sideline, nearest spot of the violation but no nearer the baseline than the foul line extended.

 

The bolded part I believe is the answer. The ref's an idiot.

Edited December 14, 2007 by darin3

[Azazello1313]

I am in a league that is pretty well officiated except for one official who acts like he is channeling a pschic bond with James Naismith. He always seems to officiate my team's games and well... he doesn't like me and another guy on my team because we killed his team (he was a player not a ref) in the playoffs of a different league.

I am not usually a hot head when it comes to officialting because I have done it and I know how hard it is, but this guy seems to really have it out for us and he is constantly calling us for ticky-tack fouls and for traveling (me in particuliar). I can't argue the fouls because that is just something you need to deal with but my/his arguement with traveling generally comes down to this, and it may be hard to explain without a picture, but here goes:

From a point with an established pivot foot, the player takes a step with his non-piviot foot. He then initiates his dribble as he is lifting his pivot foot off the ground. The ref argues that the ball needs to leave your hand before you take that first step with the NON-pivot foot. I disagree with that I think the ball must leave your hand before you can lift your PIVOT foot.

 

ie 1. left foot is pivot foot

2. take a step to the right with right foot

3. as you are doing so, you are initiating a dribble to the right

4. lift your left foot to make the move

5. continue to the right

 

he calls me for traveling between 2 and 3

 

you travel when you move the pivot foot. this dude is bascially saying that if you use your pivot foot AS a pivot, you're travelling. that is retarded.

[wcd480]

I feel for ya. It seems like every league I have played in the last few years- the refs always have personal bias and make calls for/against guys they may be cool with or, or have a beef with.

 

Why do you think all the NBA guys try and buddy up to the refs- bc it works, if he doesn't like you- you are not going to get the benefit of the doubt in most cases - by far the most "personally" refereed and inluenced sport, I I suggest you smooth him over

 

As for the calls, yep- we all have those refs that miss the obvious calls right in front of them, but love making the foul, palming, traveling call from across the court.

 

- yer right- it is based off yer pivot foot leaving the floor- you see it all the time these days- guy jab steps with the right foot, dribble drives to the left and they make the traveling call. As long as you dribble before your pivot leaves the floor- not a walk.

 

- 3 seconds re-sets for all offensive players, not just the shooter

 

 

I used to ref hoops and have coached as well. Been playing at a rather competitive level for many years as well although my fat azz doesn't look like much of a basketball player at this point.

In any case, the second question's answer first:

From the NBA rulebook:

So it has nothing to do with the rim at all. And it resets for all offensive players, not just the shooter.

And as for the first question, the entire section on traveling:

The bolded part I believe is the answer. The ref's an idiot.

 

you travel when you move the pivot foot. this dude is bascially saying that if you use your pivot foot AS a pivot, you're travelling. that is retarded.

 

 

thanks for the help on the rules, and for commiserating on the idiotiocity of this ref. I have another game tomorrow which I am pretty sure he will be reffing. I'm generally not a fan of the idea of buddying up to refs, but I will give that a shot before the game. He seems like an ok guy despite the fact that he is a poor ref, maybe extending an olive branch will get him to cut us some freakin slack.

[DICKNIXON]

DICK HEAD, BEING FROM THE MIDWEST IS NO EXCUSE FOR BEING DUMB FAT AND STUPID. THIS IS FOOTBALL YOU STUPID lipolymphohemangiomas hemihypertrophy

[The Holy Roller]

DICK HEAD, BEING FROM THE MIDWEST IS NO EXCUSE FOR BEING DUMB FAT AND STUPID. THIS IS FOOTBALL YOU STUPID lipolymphohemangiomas hemihypertrophy

 

DickNixon, are you related to DickHead, or is that just an alias?

[Azazello1313]

DickNixon, are you related to DickHead

 

let's just say they are intimately acquainted.

[The Holy Roller]

let's just say they are intimately acquainted.