SheikYerbuti Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 The term "classical composer" does not confer some kind of automatic superiority over "rock band". I don't remember ever saying that. I think I clearly stated that they really can't be judged on the same scale at all. Just because I think Beethoven is a superior composer to Page/Plant doesn't mean I'm making that judgement by saying [beethoven=classical] [Led Zep=rock] [classical > rock] therefore [beethoven > Zep] I think Led Zep wrote better music than many composers from many musical eras. But, as I said earlier it's tough to compare musics that come from musical periods that are temporally so distant from each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 I don't remember ever saying that. I think I clearly stated that they really can't be judged on the same scale at all. Just because I think Beethoven is a superior composer to Page/Plant doesn't mean I'm making that judgement by saying [beethoven=classical] [Led Zep=rock] [classical > rock] therefore [beethoven > Zep] I think Led Zep wrote better music than many composers from many musical eras. But, as I said earlier it's tough to compare musics that come from musical periods that are temporally so distant from each other. I'm not trying to compare the music per se. I am saying that in terms of musical stature, Led Zeppelin are the equal of Beethoven. The fact that Beethoven "towered over all composers for 75 years after his death" might be an indicator of the relative dearth of composers, given that in order for their music to be played, it was almost obligatory to have aristocratic patronage, plus the fact that 99% of the population at the time was scrabbling to survive, never mind compose music. Not so in the modern age where the opportunity to be Led Zeppelin is open to virtually anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 Still, by that measure, Beethoven = The Beatles, if he was utterly innovative and straddled his genre like a giant. Zep, while great in and of themselves, were clearly riding on the coattails of The Beatles in several ways; not to mention cribbing vast amounts from pre-Beatles bluesmen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 Still, by that measure, Beethoven = The Beatles, if he was utterly innovative and straddled his genre like a giant. Zep, while great in and of themselves, were clearly riding on the coattails of The Beatles in several ways; not to mention cribbing vast amounts from pre-Beatles bluesmen. Beethoven studied with Haydn (who himself wrote over 100 symphonies) and also was not averse to including the work of others in his own work, an example being Schillers Ode To Joy included in his 9th symphony. Such inclusion is a compliment rather than theft. None of that belittles his genius which was to innovate and develop music beyond where it had ever been before but you could equally say that he was "riding on the coat tails" of Haydn and Mozart. Every artist could be said to be doing the same - all art is at some level the development of what has gone before. It's the magnitude of that development that differentiates the imitator from the innovator. I'd say Led Zeppelin massively developed beyond the Beatles in the same way as Beethoven massively developed beyond his predecessors while at the same time fulfilling all the requirements for "great art" I suggested above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 A well-baited hook indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whomper Posted January 21, 2008 Author Share Posted January 21, 2008 Sheik. First you clicked the red arrows . Now this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T_bone65 Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 My God if anyone every compares Aerosmith to Zepplin they should be shot on sight. Zep is the best band by far, just ask Alexgaddis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SheikYerbuti Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 Sheik. First you clicked the red arrows . Now this. Whomp has outed my shame to everyone. . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 A well-baited hook indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brentastic Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 My God if anyone every compares Aerosmith to Zepplin they should be shot on sight. Yeah, but it's whomper - and I have a soft spot in my heart and a big lump in my pants for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenzal rhomb Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 No fishing on my part - I hate them. I've said it before, when I hear whatever the hell that noise is before Black Dog, I race for the dial before plant can start warbling. And I will say - I own I, II, III, IV, Houses of the Holy, Presence, Phys Grafiti, and In through... I just despise them now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whomper Posted January 22, 2008 Author Share Posted January 22, 2008 Yeah, but it's whomper - and I have a soft spot in my heart and a big lump in my pants for him. Thanks. Plus I was fishing. I just didnt expect to catch my WCoff partner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T_bone65 Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 Thanks. Plus I was fishing. I just didnt expect to catch my WCoff partner . I know how much URSA loves aerosmith though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh 0ne Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 Yeah, but it's whomper - and I have a soft spot in my heart and a small lump in my pants for him. Fixed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 While it might be just yet another re-issue of old standards, the Mothership remaster has astounding levels of production. The sound is so good it lets you hear things that were previously obscured. Play it very very loud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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