NHL: West vs. East

[Lerxst]

Man, is there any doubt that the Western Conference is miles better than the pathetic Eastern conference. I figure that the 4 best teams in the NHL are Detroit, Colorado, St. Louis and San Jose. Whichever of those 4 comes out of the West will crush the Eastern conference representative. Heck, look at the 2 best teams in the East this year. Boston is one game from being eliminated by the 8th-seeded Montreal Canadians and the no. 2 seed Flyers scored a whopping 2 goals in being knocked in 5 games vs. the Senators. How sad that in the last 7 years, there have been average teams like the Buffalo Sabres, Washington Capitals and Florida Panthers in the Stanley Cup Finals, while St. Louis, consistently one of the league's best, has not been to the finals once in that span. Sure, as a Blues fan, it sounds like an excuse, but the West is always very hard to get out of, unlike the East where it is a battle of the $hitbums.

[Bier Meister]

Totally agree. Go Sharks

[Guest RamTough]

How can you be discussing best in the West and not be including Vancouver

[Hugh 0ne]

I respectfully disagree.

The West is better, but not the way you are depicting it. Ottawa was I think the 3rd highest scoring team, and with Lalime on fire, I'm not surprised they beat Philly. Boston is solid, they're just having a tough go with an old rival. The Isles have the talent to go a long way as well. Again, I have to agree that the West is better, but it's always difficult to compare divisions.

[Foosball God]

Some of it is the systems that are played. The Eastern teams generally play a trapping style that is conducive to low scoring games, while the West is more of a free-flowing puck control conference. Another difference is that most of the top goalies play or played in the East and they stole some series that their teams probably shouldn't have won.

[redwings.cup]

"most of the top goalies play in the east"? I think not, and doubt Messrs. Nabakov, Roy, and Hasek (maybe even Belfour a year or two back) would agree, either. The top goalies reside in the West, as do the top teams. When Belfour hits the downside, the West picks up a Hasek. Potvin was a top Western Conference goalie when he was w/ Toronto and remains one now with the surprising Kings. If the east is hanging their hat on Richter, Lalime, Hedberg, Dafoe, Theodore (who is coming one), well.... that just makes the point.

 

I feel for the Blues. They have retooled and retooled, remain steady and competitive, and can't even think of getting out of the West.

[Foosball God]

Originally posted by redwings.cup:

"most of the top goalies play in the east"? I think not, and doubt Messrs. Nabakov, Roy, and Hasek (maybe even Belfour a year or two back) would agree, either. The top goalies reside in the West, as do the top teams. When Belfour hits the downside, the West picks up a Hasek. Potvin was a top Western Conference goalie when he was w/ Toronto and remains one now with the surprising Kings. If the east is hanging their hat on Richter, Lalime, Hedberg, Dafoe, Theodore (who is coming one), well.... that just makes the point.

 

I feel for the Blues. They have retooled and retooled, remain steady and competitive, and can't even think of getting out of the West.

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Nabakov is not a top goalie yet, he's won a whopping one playoff series. The only money goalies in the West the last couple of years has been Roy and Belfour that's it. Potvin has had a couple of good series but is hardly the goalie I'd wan't to take me to the cup. This year we have Hasek so that makes three.

 

The East on the other hand has had Broduer, Joseph, Hasek (until this year), Richter, Kolzig, Khabibuhlin (sp?), and now Thedore and Lalime. I'd say there are more top notch goaltenders in the East than the West.

[Guest Azazello13]

Originally posted by Foosball God:

 

Nabakov is not a top goalie yet, he's won a whopping one playoff series. The only money goalies in the West the last couple of years has been Roy and Belfour that's it. Potvin has had a couple of good series but is hardly the goalie I'd wan't to take me to the cup. This year we have Hasek so that makes three.

 

The East on the other hand has had Broduer, Joseph, Hasek (until this year), Richter, Kolzig, Khabibuhlin (sp?), and now Thedore and Lalime. I'd say there are more top notch goaltenders in the East than the West.

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you've got to be joking. nabokov isn't a "money goaltender" but lalime and theodore are? rationalize that one for me. theodore has yet to win his first playoff series, and lalime just got his first after playing like a sieve last year. and why would you list khabibulin over burke, when clearly phoenix had their choice and went the other way? the last time cujo stood on his head in a playoff series was with edmonton.

 

all these supposed "money goaltenders" from the east are either:

a) western conference castoffs (osgood, cujo, 'bulin)

totally unproven past the first round (lalime, theodore); or

c) already out of the picture (richter, kolzig, brodeur).

 

and you'd put that crew ahead roy, hasek, potvin, belfour, nabokov, burke et al in terms of proven playoff goaltending??

[Foosball God]

Originally posted by Azazello13:

 

you've got to be joking. nabokov isn't a "money goaltender" but lalime and theodore are? rationalize that one for me. theodore has yet to win his first playoff series, and lalime just got his first after playing like a sieve last year. and why would you list khabibulin over burke, when clearly phoenix had their choice and went the other way? the last time cujo stood on his head in a playoff series was with edmonton.

 

all these supposed "money goaltenders" from the east are either:

a) western conference castoffs (osgood, cujo, 'bulin)

totally unproven past the first round (lalime, theodore); or

c) already out of the picture (richter, kolzig, brodeur).

 

and you'd put that crew ahead roy, hasek, potvin, belfour, nabokov, burke et al in terms of proven playoff goaltending??

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Lalime is stretching it since Johnson has played the same, horrible in the past with a great first series. Thedore and Nabakov are about even.

 

Burke has been a horrible playoff goaltender so I can't believe you even put him up there.

 

Belfour seems to be losing it, but in the past he's been a money goaltender.

 

So basically it has been Roy and Belfour in the West, because even being a Red Wings fan no one could ever confuse Osgood as being a "money" goalie. I might be inclined to include Potvin in here, except for the fact that he had a long stretch between Toronto and L.A. where he was mediocre at best.

 

In the East you've had Hasek (until this year), Brodeur, Joseph, Richter, and Khabibulin.

[redwings.cup]

what has Cujo ever won? Bulin? Lalime (that's a joke)... i'm getting scared. I'm siding more and more with Zello as we make our posts.

[Lerxst]

Originally posted by Foosball God:

 

Nabakov is not a top goalie yet, he's won a whopping one playoff series. The only money goalies in the West the last couple of years has been Roy and Belfour that's it. Potvin has had a couple of good series but is hardly the goalie I'd wan't to take me to the cup. This year we have Hasek so that makes three.

 

The East on the other hand has had Broduer, Joseph, Hasek (until this year), Richter, Kolzig, Khabibuhlin (sp?), and now Thedore and Lalime. I'd say there are more top notch goaltenders in the East than the West.

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Richter is overrated. When was the last time he was in the playoffs? Khabibuhlin is all hype, Kolzig is inconsistent and Lalime has won one playoff series. As fo Thedore, when has he ever played great in the playoffs? Sure, he helped get Montreal in the playoffs, but they are up 3-2 over Boston despite his average play so far. The East has better teams and better goalies. Brent Johnson is just as proven as Lalime, Khabibuhlin or Thedore. Potvin is the reason the Kings are in a game 7 with Colorado again. Roy and Haske speak for themselves. Nabakov just won his first playoff series, but he looks like he will be a top goalie.

 

To compare the East vs. West, I will simply say this: In the last 6 NHL finals, the West has beaten the East in 22 of the 31 games and won 5 of the last 6 championships. 'Nuff said.

[Lerxst]

Originally posted by redwings.cup:

 

I feel for the Blues. They have retooled and retooled, remain steady and competitive, and can't even think of getting out of the West.

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Wow, sentiment from a Wings fan to a Blues fan. I am shocked.

[Lerxst]

As for Cujo, as big a fan as I am of him, he is too inconsistent come playoff time. He can be awesome one game and average the next. Granted, Toronto's defenseman are clowns, but Joseph has given up 15 goals in 3 road playoff games this series. Hardly the mark of a top goalie.

[Guest Azazello13]

Originally posted by Foosball God:

In the East you've had Hasek (until this year), Brodeur, Joseph, Richter, and Khabibulin.

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LMAO. so your list of "money goaltenders" from the east that are better than the goalies out west include one guy who's not even IN the east (hasek), one guy who got outplayed in the first round by kevin weekes (brodeur), a guy whose only good playoff performances came in the west for edmonton and the blues (cujo), a guy who hasn't done anything since 1994 (richter), and a guy who's 10-13 in the playoffs and has never won a single series ('bulin). yeah, i guess those guys are a LOT better than what they've got out west.

[Guest Azazello13]

the real difference between the east and the west is that in the east, because of the overall lack of great top-to-bottom teams, you can ride a hot goalie alone to the finals. vanbiesbrouck with the panthers in 96, kolzig and the caps, hasek and the sabres, etc. but those teams NEVER would have got out of the west. in the west, you need a great goalie AND a great blueline AND and a deep set of forwards. the devils have been the only complete team to come out of the east in the last 7 years or so, and they're the only team that's been able to compete once they got there. but the west has put out a very solid team EVERY year.

[Lerxst]

Ever notice too that the cheap shots in the NHL always come in Eastern Conference games? The neck slash on Donald Brousier (spelling???) last year. The cheap shot on Peca. The cheap shot on Zednik. The cheap shot by Gary Roberts. All Eastern Conference games. Hmmmm.........

[Hugh 0ne]

Originally posted by Lerxst:

Ever notice too that the cheap shots in the NHL always come in Eastern Conference games? The neck slash on Donald Brousier (spelling???) last year. The cheap shot on Peca. The cheap shot on Zednik. The cheap shot by Gary Roberts. All Eastern Conference games. Hmmmm.........

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Really wanted to let this one slide as it is a debate that will never end, but gotta add to Lerxst comment. First of all, BRASHEAR was slashed by McSorley who is a Western conference guy, all but his last year in Boston and several brief stints with the Pens and Rangers.

What cheap shot on Peca? The Tucker hit? Tucker is a scumbag IMO, but the hit was clean.

Zednik, OK, no reply to that one.

What Gary Roberts cheap shot?

I mean, maybe your fishing, but if not, it's kind of a ludicrous comment that really has no merit. Hockey's a rough sport, people get hurt, people get cheap shotted. But conference has nothing to do with it whatsoever.

[Guest Azazello13]

Originally posted by Lerxst:

Ever notice too that the cheap shots in the NHL always come in Eastern Conference games? The neck slash on Donald Brousier (spelling???) last year. The cheap shot on Peca. The cheap shot on Zednik. The cheap shot by Gary Roberts. All Eastern Conference games. Hmmmm.........

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well, the brashear thing came in an interconference game (canucks/bruins), so that kind of goes out the window. i don't really see any disparity there. todd marchment plays in the west, that guy alone almost makes up for ALL the dirty plays/players in the east.

 

while on the subject though, that darcy tucker hit on peca looked REAL dirty to me. if you ask me it was almost worse than the mclaren thing, which was kind of a reaction thing. but that webb kid for the isles flat laid tucker out with two or three of the best hits you'll EVER see in game 6. that was awesome. and then corson got his ASS whooped by cairns. i'm not really pulling for either team in that series, but i LOVED seeing the isles get some good, clean retribution for some of the borderline goonery the leafs had been pulling.

 

game 7 there should be a barnburner.

[Furd]

Originally posted by Azazello13:

and then corson got his ASS whooped by cairns.

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My jaw still hurts from a couple of those shots.

[Hugh 0ne]

First of all, I agree that the Leafs played quite dirty and deserve what they get. However, Corson fighting Cairns is a mismatch, and he payed for it. He's also been suspended for trying to kick Cairns after getting pummeled by him. Tucker on the other hand is an f'n Rosie O'Donnell. He cheap shots all night long, won't fight anyone, and when he finally decides to drop the gloves he fights Bates. Who's next, Paul Kariya? However, I disagree that the hit on Peca was dirty. He did not go at his knees, and it was shortly after the puck had been touched by Peca. Peca hurt his knee when he landed. I do agree that Webb played a great game. He's a guy who has a tough time keeping his emotions on track and staying out of the penalty box, but he really kept his composure and threw some great hits last night. Looking forward to game 7.

[Foosball God]

Originally posted by Azazello13:

 

LMAO. so your list of "money goaltenders" from the east that are better than the goalies out west include one guy who's not even IN the east (hasek), one guy who got outplayed in the first round by kevin weekes (brodeur), a guy whose only good playoff performances came in the west for edmonton and the blues (cujo), a guy who hasn't done anything since 1994 (richter), and a guy who's 10-13 in the playoffs and has never won a single series ('bulin). yeah, i guess those guys are a LOT better than what they've got out west.

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Give me a break, you're trying to tell me that you don't think Brodeur is a "money" goaltender??? Or Richter???

 

If Richter wasn't a "money" goaltender than why is he always the concensus starter for the U.S. whenever NHL players play in the World Championships or Olympics???

 

Cujo had excellent playoff series in both the 99 and 2000 playoffs, and almost single-handedly beat the Devils last year taking it to 7 games. And he's not a "money" goaltender??? At least get your facts straight before you spout off some blather about how CuJo hasn't had a good series since he was with the Blues and Edmonton.

 

Khabibulin has twice taken series to 7 games and another to 6 against vastly superior opponents.

 

Because of Washington's inconsistant play Kolzig hasn't been in the playoffs year in and year out. While I admit that his last two series haven't been stellar, his earlier ones were phenominal.

 

Nabokov played awful last year, and because he has one good series you're ready to anoint him a great "money" goaltender?

 

If you want to base it on this year's playoffs which has been all of one round , then yes the West has the hotter goaltenders. But the original question was why the East's top seed seemed to lose more often. And I correctly pointed out that it's the sytle they play and the fact that to date there have been more clutch goaltending displays in the East.

 

Oh and by the way, who just beat the #1 seeded Bruins? Theodore.

[Guest Azazello13]

Originally posted by Foosball God:

Give me a break, you're trying to tell me that you don't think Brodeur is a "money" goaltender??? Or Richter???

 

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never said those guys suck. YOU'RE the one trying to say that the goaltending in the east is better than the west, i'm just saying that's total hogwash.

 

 

If Richter wasn't a "money" goaltender than why is he always the concensus starter for the U.S. whenever NHL players play in the World Championships or Olympics???

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well when your other choices are barasso and dunham...

 

 

Cujo had excellent playoff series in both the 99 and 2000 playoffs, and almost single-handedly beat the Devils last year taking it to 7 games. And he's not a "money" goaltender??? At least get your facts straight before you spout off some blather about how CuJo hasn't had a good series since he was with the Blues and Edmonton.

 

Khabibulin has twice taken series to 7 games and another to 6 against vastly superior opponents.

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sorry for not counting "almosts" .

 

again, i'm not the one making the comparative judgments here. i'd actually say the goaltending between the conferences is probably pretty even, all things considered. you can't really make meaningful comparisons about that kind of thing anyway. but when you look at past accomplishments in the playoffs, you'd have to be a MORON to say the east has the more proven guys, when patrick roy ALONE has probably done more in the playoffs than ALL your so-called "money goalies" in the east combined.

 

 

[qb]If you want to base it on this year's playoffs which has been all of one round , then yes the West has the hotter goaltenders. But the original question was why the East's top seed seemed to lose more often. And I correctly pointed out that it's the sytle they play and the fact that to date there have been more clutch goaltending displays in the East.[/qb/

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the real reason is that the top seeds in the east, with the exception of new jersey the last couple years, just aren't that good.

 

or do you honestly think the caps, sabres, panthers could have come out of the west those years?

 

[ 04-29-2002: Message edited by: Azazello13 ]

[Guest Azazello13]

Originally posted by HUGH ONE:

However, I disagree that the hit on Peca was dirty. He did not go at his knees

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i dunno what you were watching, but it sure looked like he pointed his ass RIGHT at peca's knee. he was looking right where he was going, he sized him up, and he clearly got down as low as he could possibly get with that hit. i mean, what kind of punk-ass b*tch hip checks someone in the knee?! not to mention tucker was yapping all series long about how he was going to take peca out. in my mind, those kinds of calculated low hits (bryan marchment specials) are about the dirtiest hits you'll see in the NHL. the stuff you see along the boards with sticks and elbows look dirtier because you're usually talking about someone's head in the line of fire, but i'd be willing to bet a LOT more man-games are lost due to the cheap-ass low hits.

[Hugh 0ne]

He put his punk ass ass in Peca's upper leg IMO. I agree on your opinion about Tucker, but still don't think he went at his knee.

[Hugh 0ne]

BTW, should be real interesting to see what the Isles can do with Corson out of the line up. Corson's a great Peca like player who neutralizes offensive stars. Should open things up for Yashin and Bates.