Anquan Boldin (& Rosenhaus):

[H8tank]

This is getting to be a joke, I can understand a guy like Hester wanting to redo, but these other guys are already some of the highest paid.

[Bill Swerski]

I disagree completely and would point right at MLB & the NBA as examples of excatly why doing this is bad business.

 

Players get some guaranteed money with signing bonuses. They also get easy-to-reach clauses such as voluntary work-out attendance bonuses, roster bonuses, etc. But the rest of the money they have to earn.

 

That's appropriate and keeps athletes on top of their game.

 

I won't necessarily disagree with that, but it also turns some of them into whiny b*tch holdouts. You're going to have that as long as you have non-guaranteed contracts. I don't see anything wrong with giving players two-, three-, or four-year guaranteed deals, as opposed to these ridiculous 7-10 year non-guaranteed contracts that will never fully vest, but with massive signing bonuses. If anything, I'd like to see an arbitration system for young guys who were drafted low, but play at Pro Bowl levels right off the bat (e.g., Antonio Gates). The four years that it takes to get to unrestricted free agency is half of the expected "career lifetime" of some positions. And while most teams do the right thing and pay the holdouts (or threatened holdouts) a fair salary, the fact that they even threaten to hold out reflects negatively on everybody.

 

I'm not saying that the current system needs to be scrapped (it obviously works on many levels), but I would disagree that MLB and the NBA are examples of why guaranteed contracts are bad.

[ROYALWITCHEESE]

Well, if it is okay with you for one party to ignore the terms of a contract, why wouldn't it be okay with you for the other party to do the same?

 

To all you people who say "it's a contract and he should just play it out":

 

 

It's called a RAISE. I'm sure if you were outperforming your current salary, and a younger cat came in and got an infinite amount of money more than you, to do the same job you are doing equally as well (in the same department to add to that), you'd all be fine with it and not expect or ask for a raise. Right?

 

As a matter of fact, you'd be free to LEAVE your current job if another company is going to pay you the money you are looking for. NFL players can't.

Edited April 23, 2008 by ROYALWITCHEESE

[Bronco Billy]

As a matter of fact, you'd be free to LEAVE your current job if another company is going to pay you the money you are looking for. NFL players can't.

 

NFL players are forced to play in the NFL!?!? That's unconscionable! That's unethical! That's slavery! The owners can't get away with abusing these poor unfortunate players like that!

 

FOR GOD'S SAKE, SOMEONE DO SOMETHING!

Edited April 23, 2008 by Bronco Billy

[peepinmofo]

To all you people who say "it's a contract and he should just play it out":

 

 

It's called a RAISE. I'm sure if you were outperforming your current salary, and a younger cat came in and got an infinite amount of money more than you, to do the same job you are doing equally as well (in the same department to add to that), you'd all be fine with it and not expect or ask for a raise. Right?

 

As a matter of fact, you'd be free to LEAVE your current job if another company is going to pay you the money you are looking for. NFL players can't.

 

I dont know about you, but I sure as hell didnt sign a contract when I started working at my place of employment. If I did, I wouldnt ask for a raise until the contract was up... ESPECIALLY IF I MADE MILLIONS OF DOLLARS!!!

[ROYALWITCHEESE]

NFL players are forced to play in the NFL!?!? That's unconscionable! That's unethical! That's slavery! The owners can't get away with abusing these poor unfortunate players like that!

 

FOR GOD'S SAKE, SOMEONE DO SOMETHING!

 

 

That's not what I was saying and you know that. But they are forced to stay with a particular team, if they want to stay in the league. Their only option for a raise is to renegotiate.

[Bronco Billy]

That's not what I was saying and you know that. But they are forced to stay with a particular team, if they want to stay in the league. Their only option for a raise is to renegotiate.

 

They have an option other than renegotiating They have an option to quit if they think they are being treated unfairly and can find suitable employment elsewhere.

 

There is no inherent right to play in the NFL. If players want the fame, fortune, and associated perks of playing in the league, they have to abide by league policy and the CBA. That's the trade off. It seems to me that most of the players benefit greatly from playing in the league under those restrictions, as opposed to the alternative.

 

Cripes.

[ROYALWITCHEESE]

I dont know about you, but I sure as hell didnt sign a contract when I started working at my place of employment. If I did, I wouldnt ask for a raise until the contract was up... ESPECIALLY IF I MADE MILLIONS OF DOLLARS!!!

 

 

 

 

Easy for you to say, when you don't make millions. These guys do, and they deserve to be paid what the market says, just like us. They only work for about 6-7 years, sometimes less. This money has to last them the rest of their lives, as many will be in bad physical shape when they are through.

 

You are being unrealistic in your comparison.

I don't know what you do, or what you make, but let's say you are average. Let's say you make 40K. Now a new graduate comes in, does the same as you in the same department, only he starts at 60K. You're telling me you would not try and renegotiate your salary???

 

When I graduate from DPT school in a couple of years, I'll most likely sign a contract. I would leave it in a heart-beat in that situation. I'd be job hunting, while working, until I found someone willing to pay me what I'm worth.

 

If you say you wouldn't, when your financial security and future and family depends on it, then you are lying. Either that or plain stupid.

 

No offense personally.

[ROYALWITCHEESE]

They have an option other than renegotiating They have an option to quit if they think they are being treated unfairly and can find suitable employment elsewhere.

 

There is no inherent right to play in the NFL. If players want the fame, fortune, and associated perks of playing in the league, they have to abide by league policy and the CBA. That's the trade off. It seems to me that most of the players benefit greatly from playing in the league under those restrictions, as opposed to the alternative.

 

Cripes.

 

Why should they walk away when someone will pay them?? Why should they walk away when someone is paying a lesser player more money?? They should just chalk it up to the luck of the draw?? Hell no!

 

You say they shouldn't haggle over millions of dollars? That's crazy. These owners are making BILLIONS! And still refuse to help those that paved the way all those years ago. The owners should have to pony up. After all they signed the CBA that created this mess in the first place. No one to blame but themselves!! It is what it is.

 

If I were Boldin, I wouldn't play another down until I got Fitzgerald money (or something close). Fitzy got his money by demanding a trade or contract. Now Boldin is the bad guy for wanting the same? Please. You reap what you sew. You paid one guy early, now you have to pay the other guy if you want to keep him.

 

Chad is another story. I don't think his is about money.

 

If I were Roy, I'd ask for a trade. Because if he doesn't, they will unfairly slap him with the franchise tag next year, delaying his chance to secure his future, and putting his long term career in jeopardy under that one year tender.

[Bronco Billy]

You say they shouldn't haggle over millions of dollars? That's crazy. These owners are making BILLIONS! And still refuse to help those that paved the way all those years ago. The owners should have to pony up. After all they signed the CBA that created this mess in the first place. No one to blame but themselves!! It is what it is.

 

You do understand the concept of capitalism, right? And I'd like you to find me another company in this country that pays its employess the percentage of gross revenues that the NFL pays its employees.

 

The owners are the ones who paved the way in this league. They took the chances with capital while the league wasn't a popular pastime, they created the infrastructure that has made the league what it is today. When players played in past eras, they were compensated fairly for the work that they did given the financials of the league at the time and where the league was in its development. Just because players are making incredibly outrageous sums today (thanks to the guidance of the league by the owners) doesn't make what happened decades ago unfair. The circumstances just changed.

 

Would anyone in their right mind ask any other company in this country to pay employees who used to work for them 30 -50 years ago substantial amounts of money because the company was so much more successful today? Bring that up in a board room at any other company in the country and see where that proposal gets you. Maybe the players should take 10% less of gross revenues and have the league contribute that 10% to a vets' fund. They'd still make more money than they should, and the vets would get a feasible source of financial help.

 

Unbelievable. People who have taken the financial risk are the ones who have every right to benefit - or the people to whom they have passed the rights of the company over to - when their company becomes successful. They owners are getting rich off the profits of the league? Great! That's what America is about.

Edited April 23, 2008 by Bronco Billy

[Bronco Billy]

If I were Boldin, I wouldn't play another down until I got Fitzgerald money (or something close). Fitzy got his money by demanding a trade or contract. Now Boldin is the bad guy for wanting the same? Please. You reap what you sew. You paid one guy early, now you have to pay the other guy if you want to keep him.

 

Chad is another story. I don't think his is about money.

 

If I were Roy, I'd ask for a trade. Because if he doesn't, they will unfairly slap him with the franchise tag next year, delaying his chance to secure his future, and putting his long term career in jeopardy under that one year tender.

 

I've got some news for you: The NFL will still be successful even if Boldin & Roy hold out. If they took your advice, they'd be working with the masses for reasonable compensation rather than what they make now - even as "screwed over" as they are.

 

So if those two hold out because they are getting "screwed", because of the genius advice they are getting from you, all they would do is lose a year's pay while giving up a year of their youth that they have to still acquire wealth in the league. Nice advice there, very well thought out.

[ROYALWITCHEESE]

You do understand the concept of capitalism, right? And I'd like you to find me another company in this country that pays its employess the percentage of gross revenues that the NFL pays its employees.

 

The owners are the ones who paved the way in this league. They took the chances with capital while the league wasn't a popular pastime, they created the infrastructure that has made the league what it is today. When players played in past eras, they were compensated fairly for the work that they did given the financials of the league at the time and where the league was in its development. Just because players are making incredibly outrageous sums today (thanks to the guidance of the league by the owners) doesn't make what happened decades ago unfair. The circumstances just changed.

 

Would anyone in their right mind ask any other company in this country to pay employees who used to work for them 30 -50 years ago substantial amounts of money because the company was so much more successful today? Bring that up in a board room at any other company in the country and see where that proposal gets you. Maybe the players should take 10% less of gross revenues and have the league contribute that 10% to a vets' fund. They'd still make more money than they should, and the vets would get a feasible source of financial help.

 

Unbelievable. People who have taken the financial risk are the ones who have every right to benefit - or the people to whom they have passed the rights of the company over to - when their company becomes successful. They owners are getting rich off the profits of the league? Great! That's what America is about.

 

 

Without the players, there is no NFL. Easy to take "risks" when you have the money to do so.

 

These retired players aren't asking to be PAID. They are asking for health benefits and health insurance, which other companies DO grant to their retired employees. They gave their health and their bodies for the league and for LITTLE compensation. Hell most of them had jobs during the week in addition to playing on Sundays. They should be receiving heathcare at the expense of the league, and it is a downright shame that they aren't.

 

Sure a portion of the players wages should be taxable for past players, but the owners have a responsibility to them as well, as owners of the entities these players sacrificed their well beings for.

[ROYALWITCHEESE]

I've got some news for you: The NFL will still be successful even if Boldin & Roy hold out. If they took your advice, they'd be working with the masses for reasonable compensation rather than what they make now - even as "screwed over" as they are.

 

So if those two hold out because they are getting "screwed", because of the genius advice they are getting from you, all they would do is lose a year's pay while giving up a year of their youth that they have to still acquire wealth in the league. Nice advice there, very well thought out.

 

LOL the NFL will be without a doubt. But their teams WON'T. And that is the bottom line. No Boldin = few wins = no playoffs = frustrated fans = less butts in the seats = less revenue. Prime example is right here in Charlotte. Bob Johnson got a free arena from the tax payers, then turns and blames the local corporations because he is losing money and has no fan base. Hey Bob, you don't think it has anything to do with your product do you? Know where your bread is buttered.

 

Hmm. I must not be the only "genius" these guys listen too. Seems like DR has a say-so in this negotiating ploy, and I'd say he knows a little more about NFL contract negotiations than you...

[peepinmofo]

Easy for you to say, when you don't make millions. These guys do, and they deserve to be paid what the market says, just like us. They only work for about 6-7 years, sometimes less. This money has to last them the rest of their lives, as many will be in bad physical shape when they are through. They work for 6-7 years, then after that they dont have to do anything but sit back and swim in their cash. Rough life they live.

 

You are being unrealistic in your comparison.

I don't know what you do, or what you make, but let's say you are average. Let's say you make 40K. Now a new graduate comes in, does the same as you in the same department, only he starts at 60K. You're telling me you would not try and renegotiate your salary??? Something similar HAS happened, but I wasnt under contract. I get my annual raise, and it sure as hell isnt in the millions like these guys. If I made 6 million a year, and some young buck came in behind me making 10, no, I wouldnt care, because I know I would be fortunate enough to mnake what I do, and be well off for the rest of my life, as well as my childrens and families lives.

 

When I graduate from DPT school in a couple of years, I'll most likely sign a contract. I would leave it in a heart-beat in that situation. I'd be job hunting, while working, until I found someone willing to pay me what I'm worth. Worth? you think these guys are WORTH these absurd amounts?

 

If you say you wouldn't, when your financial security and future and family depends on it, then you are lying. Either that or plain stupid. Far from stupid.

 

No offense personally. None taken.

 

[Bronco Billy]

Well, RWC, I think we are going to have to agree to disagree.

 

I happen to think that the players are blessed to be making the amounts of money they make - as you so clearly stated, they only work for 6-7 years but they make 3 to 4 times the amount of the worker you defined as average makes in an entire lifetime of working. And that doesn't include compensation from promotional deals and anything they make after their playing days are over as well as their pension, which could make their earnings 6-8 times as much or more. And we aren't talking about the superstars here, who would make a lot more than that, we're talking about a player who plays 6 years at an average of $750,000 a year. Those are people whom I would consider fortunate indeed. And let's not overlook that their participation in the NFL is strictly voluntary. They choose to play, they are not forced to play as you seem to think.

 

You on the other hand feel that they are getting an incredibly raw deal simply because the guy who owns the team makes a lot more than them, or because the latest flash in the pan may average $1M a year on his first contract for 6 years without having played a down in the league yet - more than the average player listed above. Well, the players have the CBA and they can do something about rookie salaries - but the players choose not to. The owners sure would go for reining rookie salaries in. They don't want to be spending that much on a guy who could very well be a huge bust. So who is to blame there? Let's see - oh, its the players! The NFLPA licenses and controls the agents, so the agents have virtually no say if the players decided to stop the crazy rookie contracts - but they don't. Why is that?

 

So, like I stated. I happen to think NFL players are blessed to have such a rare opportunity. You think they are abused drudges of the league. There's no way we'll see eye to eye on this.

[ROYALWITCHEESE]

Well, RWC, I think we are going to have to agree to disagree.

 

I happen to think that the players are blessed to be making the amounts of money they make - as you so clearly stated, they only work for 6-7 years but they make 3 to 4 times the amount of the worker you defined as average makes in an entire lifetime of working. And that doesn't include compensation from promotional deals and anything they make after their playing days are over as well as their pension, which could make their earnings 6-8 times as much or more. And we aren't talking about the superstars here, who would make a lot more than that, we're talking about a player who plays 6 years at an average of $750,000 a year. Those are people whom I would consider fortunate indeed. And let's not overlook that their participation in the NFL is strictly voluntary. They choose to play, they are not forced to play as you seem to think.

 

You on the other hand feel that they are getting an incredibly raw deal simply because the guy who owns the team makes a lot more than them, or because the latest flash in the pan may average $1M a year on his first contract for 6 years without having played a down in the league yet - more than the average player listed above. Well, the players have the CBA and they can do something about rookie salaries - but the players choose not to. The owners sure would go for reining rookie salaries in. They don't want to be spending that much on a guy who could very well be a huge bust. So who is to blame there? Let's see - oh, its the players! The NFLPA licenses and controls the agents, so the agents have virtually no say if the players decided to stop the crazy rookie contracts - but they don't. Why is that?

 

So, like I stated. I happen to think NFL players are blessed to have such a rare opportunity. You think they are abused drudges of the league. There's no way we'll see eye to eye on this.

 

They truly are blessed. But I believe people should be paid based on what their performance dictates. Not some out dated contract signed years ago. They were just discussing this on NFL Live. These "contracts" really aren't that in the NFL. Players, agents, and owners enter into these deals KNOWING FULL WELL that no matter how long the contract is, it is going to be renegotiated and/or reworked in 3-4 years. It's not like these guys are doing something unheard of or wrong. It's how things are done in the NFL, and is not like contracts out in the real world.

 

But to quote Jules Winfield, "Look, my friend, this is just where you and I differ..."

[BumpNRun]

Without the players, there is no NFL. Easy to take "risks" when you have the money to do so.

 

These retired players aren't asking to be PAID. They are asking for health benefits and health insurance, which other companies DO grant to their retired employees. They gave their health and their bodies for the league and for LITTLE compensation. Hell most of them had jobs during the week in addition to playing on Sundays. They should be receiving heathcare at the expense of the league, and it is a downright shame that they aren't.

 

Sure a portion of the players wages should be taxable for past players, but the owners have a responsibility to them as well, as owners of the entities these players sacrificed their well beings for.

 

Most top business only pay for retired employes benifits, mainly health insurance, once the employee finishes out a certain number of years or has become vested. In a way, you can say that they have lived up to their contract or played out the number of years. ( for example, a SR employee ho has worked 20 yrs gets a portion pd by the company and the former employee pays the balance. A 35 yr employee may get full benifits pd for by the company and retain some of the other perks the company throws in, ie life insurance, disabilty, care fund) To succeed in life in anything you do from employment ,to sports to family, you must be willing to sacrifice. Those ath. chose that line of work.

 

As for the players who put their bodies on the line, get hurt, and leave the game. Hopefully they picked something up in college to fall back upon, like an edumacation.

[BumpNRun]

Most top business only pay for retired employes benifits, mainly health insurance, once the employee finishes out a certain number of years or has become vested. In a way, you can say that they have lived up to their contract or played out the number of years. ( for example, a SR employee ho has worked 20 yrs gets a portion pd by the company and the former employee pays the balance. A 35 yr employee may get full benifits pd for by the company and retain some of the other perks the company throws in, ie life insurance, disabilty, care fund) To succeed in life in anything you do from employment ,to sports to family, you must be willing to sacrifice. Those ath. chose that line of work.

 

As for the players who put their bodies on the line, get hurt, and leave the game. Hopefully they picked something up in college to fall back upon, like an edumacation.

[/quotOr at least invested some of the earning in different business ventures instead of living the Lavish Life.

[Cunning Runt]

Why is it more shady than teams cutting the players before the deal is up if they are not performing up to snuff?

 

Because the signing bonuses are paid upfront - basically in anticipation of or at least the understanding that the player could be cut later.

[peepinmofo]

Well, RWC, I think we are going to have to agree to disagree.

 

I happen to think that the players are blessed to be making the amounts of money they make - as you so clearly stated, they only work for 6-7 years but they make 3 to 4 times the amount of the worker you defined as average makes in an entire lifetime of working. And that doesn't include compensation from promotional deals and anything they make after their playing days are over as well as their pension, which could make their earnings 6-8 times as much or more. And we aren't talking about the superstars here, who would make a lot more than that, we're talking about a player who plays 6 years at an average of $750,000 a year. Those are people whom I would consider fortunate indeed. And let's not overlook that their participation in the NFL is strictly voluntary. They choose to play, they are not forced to play as you seem to think.

 

You on the other hand feel that they are getting an incredibly raw deal simply because the guy who owns the team makes a lot more than them, or because the latest flash in the pan may average $1M a year on his first contract for 6 years without having played a down in the league yet - more than the average player listed above. Well, the players have the CBA and they can do something about rookie salaries - but the players choose not to. The owners sure would go for reining rookie salaries in. They don't want to be spending that much on a guy who could very well be a huge bust. So who is to blame there? Let's see - oh, its the players! The NFLPA licenses and controls the agents, so the agents have virtually no say if the players decided to stop the crazy rookie contracts - but they don't. Why is that?

 

So, like I stated. I happen to think NFL players are blessed to have such a rare opportunity. You think they are abused drudges of the league. There's no way we'll see eye to eye on this.

 

It should also be noted that they only have to be in the league for like 4 years (3.5 I think) to get retirement from the league. Im not sure how much they make, but I can guarandamntee they make a hell of a lot more than any of us here on their retirement alone. So no, the 6-7 year salary they make does NOT have to last them a life time. Their retirement covers their lives.

 

This was directed to RWC since he is the ignorant one here. No offense, personally.

[ROYALWITCHEESE]

It should also be noted that they only have to be in the league for like 4 years (3.5 I think) to get retirement from the league. Im not sure how much they make, but I can guarandamntee they make a hell of a lot more than any of us here on their retirement alone. So no, the 6-7 year salary they make does NOT have to last them a life time. Their retirement covers their lives.

 

This was directed to RWC since he is the ignorant one here. No offense, personally.

 

 

Before spouting off about ignorance, you might want to go back and actually read or do a little research. TODAY's players have benefits. Your father's NFL players don't get one red cent. Many struggle through life with disabilities and medical problems as a result of their NFL careers, with little money and no insurance or help from the league.

 

You may now remove your foot from your mouth. Moran.