Well this is just freakin' great

[Perchoutofwater]

Perch . . . why do you still cling to the notion that everything the left does is wrong and evil? Even when the CBO releases info, you paint it as being twisted. Paul Ryans proposl;a hinges on wholesale changes to the tax code. How likely is that?

Both sides are corrupt . . and I have little faith that either of them, or both together can come up with anything positive . .

 

About as likely as the whole sale changes to medicare that the Obama/Pelosi/Reid plan hinge upon.

 

BTW I don't think everything the left does is evil. I do disagree with increasing spending and the size of government as we've seen that has done to us with SS and medicare.

[bpwallace49]

About as likely as the whole sale changes to medicare that the Obama/Pelosi/Reid plan hinge upon.

 

BTW I don't think everything the left does is evil. I do disagree with increasing spending and the size of government as we've seen that has done to us with SS and medicare.

 

EXACTLY!

 

Second, that is NOT how the right has been portraying Obama since he got elected, which increases the partisan divide.

[Clubfoothead]

We all know full well that for the past 20 years or so, our entire economy was based off of debt. Debt was bundled, packaged, and sold to others who in turn made money off of the debt. The US was about charging, taking out loans, and charging again. We all knew that was wrong yet we all continued, completely oblivious to the inevitable down falls. Where the Great Depression was based on an unregulated stock market bubble that burst, our Great Recession was based off of minimal regulated lending and inflated real estate pricing that allowed Joe Crackhead from MLK drive to buy a $700k house with two ARM loans.

 

The Great Depression was so impacting because globalization was not a factor at the time like our world is today. We will never see another Great Depression because all countries and bound together economically. So we really don't have to worry much about that. However, what we need to be keenly aware of is how our Federal Government continues to do the same thing now that led us to this Great Recession - borrow more and more money. I don't care if you are Democrat, Republican, Tea party, Independent, Green party, socialist, etc, as of right now our country as we know only exists as smoke and mirrors. The federal government has overstepped its authority and continues to do so by borrowing more and more money from foreign governments then dipping into social security to pay the interest on our national debt. Honestly, I'm surprised we have not done the old Soviet Swan Dive of 1989 yet. We're broke, our time has passed. The 19th century belong to Britain, the 20th century to us, now in the 21st century it will be in Asia.

 

We need to stop all of this political party bickering, revisit our Constitution and strip down the unconstitutional powers the current central government has in place, return power to the states, and begin paying down our national debt if this country is going to survive. I am all for a Federal government but ours is way out of control and having a prez in power who, instead of listening to voters and congress, is going to go against everything we hold dear and force some BS health insurance bill into law (among other things such as throwing money at problems just like he criticized Busy-pooh for during his run) is simply unacceptable. If this guy spent as much time focusing on our economical problems and international relationships as he does on this crap right now, we'd probably be a little better off.

 

Do you all really want to see stuff like this getting out of hand?

 

We need to take that 500 billion in gold at Fort Knox, put that towards our debt, develop a nuclear plant development program that other countries can pay to come in, set up, and maintain nuclear power plants to increase revenue streams for our government to pay down debt (not worried about other countries trying to convert it to a weapons programs since it is all but impossible to do unless you are a developed nation. nuclear power plant uranium is only about 3% enriched and it takes at least 90% enriched to create something useful for a bomb), begin shutting down stupid federal programs to cut the borrowing, and leverage universities to develop renewable technologies. We need to revisit salaries of political figures (honestly, people who are governors, house of rep, and senate members shouldn't receive the salaries they have right now, it's a public office that a person should be duty bound and obligated to perform regardless of salary - just like our fire fighters, police officers, teachers, and military).

 

I'm so tired of hearing right wing this, left wing that, liberal momo did this while conservative pole smoker did that. It's all BS, people. The problem is the same recycled liars and thieves we continue to allow to get into office.

 

Sums it up pretty nicely

 

::off soap box::

 

 

Really? You are so tired of hearing right wing this, left wing that, that you regurgitate a Glen Beck email?

 

How do you figure the 21st century will belong to Asia? Seems to me they are pretty smoke and mirror economically too. Let's say we decide we aren't paying them back. What are they going to do about it? They need us to repay the debt and to continue consuming their goods economically. They can't do anything militarily to us.

 

And it seems to me if you do believe Asia is going to take over in the next century, you might notice what their governments to when their economies and industries are in trouble. You can call it socalism, communism, whatever, it is certainly not the hands-off, minimalist approcah you recommend as the cure-all. The people you claim are doing things right enough to inherit the next century conduct business in the exact opposite fashion that you advise.

 

In a global economy American workers and businesses compete with foreign companies and workers, who are increasingly assisted by their central governments. Seems to me the hands-off minimalist government, if it benefits anyone, will do nothing for your average American other than to allow them to be even more exploited by big business. You want the United States of Kraft Foods, Inc. I'll pass.

 

My electricity works fine but continuing to spend 1/3 of my post-tax income on medical bills is not sustainable. Leaving health care the way it is because rich people have no problem getting to the doctor is what is unacceptable.

[bpwallace49]

 

Really? You are so tired of hearing right wing this, left wing that, that you regurgitate a Glen Beck email?

 

How do you figure the 21st century will belong to Asia? Seems to me they are pretty smoke and mirror economically too. Let's say we decide we aren't paying them back. What are they going to do about it? They need us to repay the debt and to continue consuming their goods economically. They can't do anything militarily to us.

 

And it seems to me if you do believe Asia is going to take over in the next century, you might notice what their governments to when their economies and industries are in trouble. You can call it socalism, communism, whatever, it is certainly not the hands-off, minimalist approcah you recommend as the cure-all. The people you claim are doing things right enough to inherit the next century conduct business in the exact opposite fashion that you advise.

 

In a global economy American workers and businesses compete with foreign companies and workers, who are increasingly assisted by their central governments. Seems to me the hands-off minimalist government, if it benefits anyone, will do nothing for your average American other than to allow them to be even more exploited by big business. You want the United States of Kraft Foods, Inc. I'll pass.

 

My electricity works fine but continuing to spend 1/3 of my post-tax income on medical bills is not sustainable. Leaving health care the way it is because rich people have no problem getting to the doctor is what is unacceptable.

 

Excellent post . . .

 

 

Edited March 6, 2010 by bpwallace49

[cliaz]

 

Really? You are so tired of hearing right wing this, left wing that, that you regurgitate a Glen Beck email?

 

How do you figure the 21st century will belong to Asia? Seems to me they are pretty smoke and mirror economically too. Let's say we decide we aren't paying them back. What are they going to do about it? They need us to repay the debt and to continue consuming their goods economically. They can't do anything militarily to us.

 

And it seems to me if you do believe Asia is going to take over in the next century, you might notice what their governments to when their economies and industries are in trouble. You can call it socalism, communism, whatever, it is certainly not the hands-off, minimalist approcah you recommend as the cure-all. The people you claim are doing things right enough to inherit the next century conduct business in the exact opposite fashion that you advise.

 

In a global economy American workers and businesses compete with foreign companies and workers, who are increasingly assisted by their central governments. Seems to me the hands-off minimalist government, if it benefits anyone, will do nothing for your average American other than to allow them to be even more exploited by big business. You want the United States of Kraft Foods, Inc. I'll pass.

 

My electricity works fine but continuing to spend 1/3 of my post-tax income on medical bills is not sustainable. Leaving health care the way it is because rich people have no problem getting to the doctor is what is unacceptable.

 

Glenn Beck email? Anyways....

 

The increase in oil prices along with goods like textiles, manufactured metals, paper, etc along with the cheap labor and manufacturing in Asia dictates a shift global influence to Asia. China will pass the US in oil and coal needs and has already created an unbalanced import/export trade with the US. [Weigie - keep me honest here if you will] In China, the savings rate is 50% whereas here in the US it's 3%. China is projected, by the US, to have the worlds second largest economy by 2020 and will be the worlds biggest importer of natural resources (oil, coal, natural gas, etc). And that is just one country in Asia. Let's not forget India who has the second largest population in the world (China being first) and they will equally need natural resources and offer cheap labor for technology companies. In the 19th century this was all Britain and that is why it was such a global power, in the 20th century this was the United States and the reason why were were such a global power, now it's becoming Asia.

 

The numbers vary depending where you look but on average, we should see about 1.1 to 1.6 billion more people added to this planet over the next 15 to 20 years and a global population of over 9.5 billion by 2050. With diminishing natural resources such as fossil fuels, potable water (only 3% of our global water is drinkable), food, land that is usable for agriculture, more unstable regions will be exploited for resources. We're already seeing Russia attempt to lay claim to the Arctic circle where it is believe a massive oil field lays on the ocean floor and they shut off natural gas to parts Europe during the winter a few years ago for political reasons. We will see one of two things, armed conflicts over resources or armed conflicts over trade in a globalized world. Asia has many advantages over North and South America and Europe:

 

1. Large land massive within states borders that are still largely unexplored in the oil/resource sphere

2. Influence on the global stage because of the off balanced trade deficit

3. Stronger relations with countries such as Venezuela, Iran, Russia, Cuba, North Korea, and the middle east that all have various natural resources that can be exploited.

..to list some

 

And your point on the governments of Asia, if the global economy sinks further, unemployment, starvation, and poverty opens the door for the weaker countries in Asia to experience radicalism and government coups which can bring rise to more socialism and communism. [keeping in mind that the middle east is technically Asia] With Iran becoming a nuclear power, you will see an arms race between Iran, India, Pakistan, and China.

 

You may have the impression from my post that I am saying the US will fall out of the global influence sphere, which to a point we will if we continue down this path, but the US will still be an influence. We are a stabilizing force in the international disaster sphere and the middle east. Our influence will diminish a little but we will still be a player.

 

On to your point about your

"electricity works fine but continuing to spend 1/3 of your post-tax income on medical bills is not sustainable."

I agree. But it is not the federal governments legal responsibility to offer it. It is the state. What is currently being forced into law is a system that will:

 

1. Reduce and/or remove all incentives for corporations to pay for a portion of health care benefits. This means the people who have company provided health care benefits in which the employee pays about 1/4 of the total cost will now have to pay for all of it - and for less coverage. So by doing so, you've impacted our economy significantly. Corporations will begin losing employees since they can ship more jobs overseas to India or more employees begin striking out on their own or move to other countries for employment.

 

2. The federal governments debt increase by well over 1 trillion more dollars over the next 5 to 10 years

 

3. Higher taxes to cover the costs and more dipping into social security and other needed programs to pay for it all

 

4. A lower quality of health care since more and more doctors begin to step away from internal medicine and go into specialized medicine. With this heath care plan, you think doctors who had a hard time getting reimbursed from insurance companies wont have an even more difficult time getting the government or government sponsored health care companies to pay them/reimburse them? Ever tried to get anything from the government before? When i was in the army, it took 2 years to clear up one paycheck that was off by $122.

 

If we are going to have universal coverage (which we can't) we need to get in front of the larger problems. I would suggest, instead, that the government offers universal college and trade education. For those who cannot afford college, the federal government along with the states set up state run colleges that are free for those who cannot afford tuition. The trade off? Once you graduate with your degree, you have to spend 2 to 4 years (depending on if you receive an associates or undergrad) working for the government (half with federal and half with state) in whatever discipline your degree is in at a lower GS level. Use retired teachers and professors for staffing.

 

Educate our country as a whole, reduce the need for welfare and the need for government funded insurance by tackling the social and economical issues we have internally. You'll never be able to fully rid it, of course. but you can begin chipping away at the cancer that is sucking money from the government. Educate is but one of hundreds of ways to do this.

 

We sit on the richest deposits of coal in the world. It's not the best thing to use for energy but if we position our country with green energy, nuclear energy, and natural gas, we could sell coal exclusively to China.

 

And with all of the people coming from other countries to get their educations here, we should include on the Visa requirements that once you receive your degree in medicine, engineering, etc, you must stay in the US for a period of X amount of years equal to your years in school here. This way we can take advantage of their skills instead of them packing up and leaving for home right away.

 

Again, what Glen Beck email are you talking about?

Edited March 6, 2010 by cliaz

[Clubfoothead]

I'm wondering what gives the federal goverment authority over energy policy and education policy to the exclusion of healthcare policy as you seem to believe.

 

I had heard that whole "crammed down our throat" BS before. You need the montage?

[Perchoutofwater]

I'm wondering what gives the federal goverment authority over energy policy and education policy to the exclusion of healthcare policy as you seem to believe.

 

I had heard that whole "crammed down our throat" BS before. You need the montage?

 

Most conservatives,or at least this conservative does not think the federal government should be involved in education policy. It should be done on a local level to try to prevent mass indoctrination from either side of the political spectrum. Energy policy could be viewed as part of national security which is something the federal government is supposed to do per that pesky document we call the Constitution. I'm not sure where in that pesky document it says the government is supposed to take money out of one persons pocket to pay for another persons health care.

[Clubfoothead]

Most conservatives,or at least this conservative does not think the federal government should be involved in education policy. It should be done on a local level to try to prevent mass indoctrination from either side of the political spectrum. Energy policy could be viewed as part of national security which is something the federal government is supposed to do per that pesky document we call the Constitution. I'm not sure where in that pesky document it says the government is supposed to take money out of one persons pocket to pay for another persons health care.

 

Which is why I am having this discussion with cliaz and not you.

 

Other than selling coal to China and his whole healthcare tirade, he and I agree on a lot which is why I was intrigued by the whole KKKarl Rove talking points with the "cram it down our throats" BS. Other than those two specific points I agree with pretty much everything cliaz said.

 

The world would be a better place if it were always 1938 and Nolan Ryan was emporor. We get it.

[bpwallace49]

Most conservatives,or at least this conservative does not think the federal government should be involved in education policy. It should be done on a local level to try to prevent mass indoctrination from either side of the political spectrum.

 

You mean like the conservative indoctrination in Texas that is downplaying Thomas Jefferson and eliminating or downplaying hispanic historical figures that is being pushed through by lawyers and NOT educators or historians?

 

Great example perch . . . and oh so timely . . .

[Perchoutofwater]

You mean like the conservative indoctrination in Texas that is downplaying Thomas Jefferson and eliminating or downplaying hispanic historical figures that is being pushed through by lawyers and NOT educators or historians?

 

Great example perch . . . and oh so timely . . .

 

That is exactly what I mean. It is a swing of the pendulum that has swung back the right after being to the left for a long time. Like all other departments of government I think education would be better determined at the local level.

[bpwallace49]

That is exactly what I mean. It is a swing of the pendulum that has swung back the right after being to the left for a long time. Like all other departments of government I think education would be better determined at the local level.

 

:rof:

 

Perch dont you see that your "local" Texas board is RE WRITING parts of history for a conservative point of view? If that is your "defense" of local education, it is a miserable fail . . . .and a perfect example of why local curriculum has major flaws. Omitting significant historical figures because they dont agree with your local "belief"sure isnt a path to successful education . . You are only "educating" people for their particular area of the country . . God help them if they ever leave the town they live in and go out into the rest of the country . . or world.