Bronco Billy Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 So the argument is: If a QB plays in Andy Reid's O in PHI, he must be a top 10 QB. Got it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted August 5, 2010 Share Posted August 5, 2010 (edited) So the argument is: If a QB plays in Andy Reid's O in PHI, he must be a top 10 QB. Got it. nope...and please don't try again because your attempt at that logic/common sense by making a point is not working for you yet until you actually read and comprehend what you are reading.... edit - ps: the point is that Andy Reid's system has been successful with less talent at the QB position and less talent around the QB....but when you throw the ball 40+ times a game regardless of what the score is, you'll have that.... Edited August 5, 2010 by Avernus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooknladder Posted August 5, 2010 Author Share Posted August 5, 2010 he also drove down the field against the Ravens late in the prior game....their D is supposed to be good I wasn't aware that Atlanta had a "very powerful O"...they have Ryan, Turner and White which are all good, but there is pretty much nothing else other than an old Gonzales at TE......and they are a run first offense, mind you... only one person said he would outperform Romo - you are combining the thought of one person and mixing it in with the rest when you couple the rest of these assumptions... and Cutler running a Martz offense is still not what it seems....the teams that thrived offensively with Martz were either in a dome or were a "warm weather team"...let alone the fact that he's spent most of his career in the NFC West which has been known for it's defensive juggernauts this past decade .....and when he ran the offense on the Lions, their outdoor road games weren't as productive as the ones in a dome (Home, Vikings, Dallas (yeah, it's pretty much a Dome)....I'd like to see a martz offense be as prolific as it has been ...in Chicago ....I have my doubts while I actually had less doubt for the Lions offense a couple of years ago due to the situation and them being a Dome team... as for Flacco, Manning and McNabb....all have better D's than the Eagles and are also all run first teams.....the Eagles pass 1st, 2nd and 3rd pretty much and I don't know how you can find a way to slight a QB that "torched" any NFL defense his 1st 2 games...let alone the fact that this was an offense in which a broke down Jeff Garcia, Koy Detmer and AJ Feeley all played well in let alone the fact that McNabb was a pro-bowl QB in this system that favors a QB like Kolb way more than it does an inaccurate QB who holds onto the ball too long like McNabb... McNabb was a playmaker, now he's a pocket passer that can't read a defense - earlier in his career, he would scramble until the defense broke down and would hit a safety net unless he managed to read the defense once in a blue moon....but he still produced, in a pass 1st and 2nd offense... I don't see how Kolb isn't a top 10 QB - I have him 8th and 11th at worst....and there is no way you put McNabb ahead of him - period....this isn't the Oakland Raiders or Kansas City Chiefs etc. etc. ....the Eagles offense has plugged in QB's other than McNabb this past decade and the offense still produced.. ....where have you been??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i_am_the_swammi Posted August 5, 2010 Share Posted August 5, 2010 Let make it interesting: I'd be happy to do the same type of bet I did with Seahawks21 last year with regard to SJax: Kolb vs. Rivers, Flacco, Romo, Eli, Ryan, McNabb and Cutler. (all guys ranked typically between 6-13) For every guy Kolb outperforms, you owe me $10. For every guy that outperforms Kolb, I owe you $10. Standard QB scoring. Any QB missing 3 or more starts is out of the bet (including Kolb) 1st 3 takers are on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooknladder Posted August 5, 2010 Author Share Posted August 5, 2010 He should develop into a solid QB, but I can't justify drafting him ahead of guys like Flacco, Ryan and Cutler this year. Too much inexperience across the entire offense. Kolb could very well throw for 4,000 yards and put up top 10 stats, but I'll pass on him as a QB1. he, (Kolb), has much better weapons, with speed around him, particularly at wideout, than the guys you mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooknladder Posted August 5, 2010 Author Share Posted August 5, 2010 Let make it interesting: I'd be happy to do the same type of bet I did with Seahawks21 last year with regard to SJax: Kolb vs. Rivers, Flacco, Romo, Eli, Ryan, McNabb and Cutler. (all guys ranked typically between 6-13) For every guy Kolb outperforms, you owe me $10. For every guy that outperforms Kolb, I owe you $10. Standard QB scoring. Any QB missing 3 or more starts is out of the bet (including Kolb) 1st 3 takers are on. ....also in my thread ....I think you owe me poundage Swami Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted August 5, 2010 Share Posted August 5, 2010 Let make it interesting: I'd be happy to do the same type of bet I did with Seahawks21 last year with regard to SJax: Kolb vs. Rivers, Flacco, Romo, Eli, Ryan, McNabb and Cutler. (all guys ranked typically between 6-13) For every guy Kolb outperforms, you owe me $10. For every guy that outperforms Kolb, I owe you $10. Standard QB scoring. Any QB missing 3 or more starts is out of the bet (including Kolb) 1st 3 takers are on. I'll definitely take this....if anyone wants to bet swammi, they can bet me too... so if anyone thinks that most of these QB's, if not all will outperform Kolb, then they should take me up on this.... only stipulations are if any of the QB's are injured, including Kolb....and if Vick takes over, I'm not quite as optimistic because while Vick will be a big playmaker at times...he just won't run the offense as efficiently and I wouldn't be as optimistic.... I'll take on the 1st 3 people who disagree with me....same rules that swammi mentioned except I am throwing in an injury stipulation (but I'm sure this applies to swammi as well) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted August 5, 2010 Share Posted August 5, 2010 ....where have you been??? where have you been? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i_am_the_swammi Posted August 5, 2010 Share Posted August 5, 2010 ....also in my thread ....I think you owe me poundage Swami ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted August 5, 2010 Share Posted August 5, 2010 ??? what's not to get? you own him anal pleasure.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooknladder Posted August 5, 2010 Author Share Posted August 5, 2010 what's not to get? you own him anal pleasure.... you are revealing your true self more with each passing day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooknladder Posted August 5, 2010 Author Share Posted August 5, 2010 ??? what don't you get??... -that was also my thread. ...or maybe you don't know the definition of poundage?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted August 5, 2010 Share Posted August 5, 2010 you are revealing your true self more with each passing day. I think you revealed enough for the whole forum.... and in case you'll put a request in.....no, I won't give you any poundage - it's just not my bag... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted August 5, 2010 Share Posted August 5, 2010 (edited) nope...and please don't try again because your attempt at that logic/common sense by making a point is not working for you yet until you actually read and comprehend what you are reading.... edit - ps: the point is that Andy Reid's system has been successful with less talent at the QB position and less talent around the QB....but when you throw the ball 40+ times a game regardless of what the score is, you'll have that.... Why don't you go down the list of names that Reid has made a passing star as a starting QB in his NFL coaching history. I'll wait - it's a pretty damned short list. Oh, and by the way, genius, since 1999 - Reid's first season - only 3 teams have ever averaged 40 passing attempts or more per game in any one season: '07 Saints, '05 Cards, and '99 Bears. Reid's Eagles have averaged just over 34 attempts per game over his tenure as HC. Your attempt at understanding football is not working for you. Please don't try again. Edited August 5, 2010 by Bronco Billy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeeR Posted August 5, 2010 Share Posted August 5, 2010 I want to make sure I'm reading this right. So a QB whose NFL experience pretty much boils down to two games where he torched 2 very weak pass Ds with no book on him - one of which managed to pick him 3 times in the process - is going to outperform guys like Ryan ...and Cutler and Flacco and most anyone else outside the top 6 or 7 QBs. You got it. Hold your breath. I hope I'm wrong, but I think that's a joke and see a a lot of people with scowls on their face as Kolb and their "you can wait on a QB late and find a diamond in the rough" strat results in many an FF loss. I'm also still (hey we needed one more) at using Reid as justification for production. Remember we're talking FF success, not NFL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted August 5, 2010 Share Posted August 5, 2010 (edited) Why don't you go down the list of names that Reid has made a passing star as a starting QB in his NFL coaching history. I'll wait - it's a pretty damned short list. Oh, and by the way, genius, since 1999 - Reid's first season - only 3 teams have ever averaged 40 passing attempts or more per game in any one season: '07 Saints, '05 Cards, and '99 Bears. Reid's Eagles have averaged just over 34 attempts per game over his tenure as HC. Your attempt at understanding football is not working for you. Please don't try again. how many teams have had more 40 pass attempts than the Eagles in the past decade?.....not many... and if this is your argument, then not to mention that we've had McNabb, a mediocre QB with great athletic ability for at least half his career....we've had Koy Detmer come in who is a very weak QB, but he came in and would be productive... we've even had AJ Feeley come in and look good enough to warrant a 2nd round pick from the Dolphins (we all know how good he actually was) then you have Jeff Garcia who had one of the weakest arms in the NFL look good... and then you have Kolb who...oh wait...I've already talked about this twice I think, so are you gonna do a sig bet or not? ...or at least the bet swammi talked about... ...it should be a lay-up for you since my attempt at understanding football isn't working for me.. Edited August 5, 2010 by Avernus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted August 5, 2010 Share Posted August 5, 2010 (edited) how many teams have had more 40 pass attempts than the Eagles in the past decade?.....not many... and if this is your argument, then not to mention that we've had McNabb, a mediocre QB with great athletic ability for at least half his career....we've had Koy Detmer come in who is a very weak QB, but he came in and would be productive... we've even had AJ Feeley come in and look good enough to warrant a 2nd round pick from the Dolphins (we all know how good he actually was) then you have Jeff Garcia who had one of the weakest arms in the NFL look good... and then you have Kolb who...oh wait...I've already talked about this twice I think, so are you gonna do a sig bet or not? ...or at least the bet swammi talked about... ...it should be a lay-up for you since my attempt at understanding football isn't working for me.. This is great. It so fun to watch someone who is so smug make such an ass of themselves. AJ Feeley - who you list as one of Reid's "stars" in response to my question - under Reid as a starter or relief in a game when it had significance (9 times): averaged 18 completions in 32 passes 57% completion rate 222 passing yards per game 13 passing TDs, 13 INTs 6.95 ypa Man, those are some "star" quality numbers there, my friend. Here's one even better: Jeff Garcia - who you name as a "star" in response to my question - played a significant role in 6 games under Reid in PHI (unless you want to count the las game in his career in 2009 where he didn't accumulate a single passing stat) and had the following studly stats: averaged 19 completions in 31 passes 63% completion rate 213 passing yards per game 10 passing TDs, 2 INTs 6.96 ypa This is despite Garcia starting for 5 years in SF and racking up substantially better numbers as a starter there. And to call McNabb mediocre shows exactly how deeply your football acumen runs. To put up the numbers he did with the dog meat that Reid gave him at WR for almost his entire career there is nothing short of amazing. Edited August 5, 2010 by Bronco Billy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted August 5, 2010 Share Posted August 5, 2010 This is great. It so fun to watch someone who is so smug make such an ass of themselves. AJ Feeley - who you list as one of Reid's "stars" in response to my question - under Reid as a starter or relief in a game when it had significance (9 times): averaged 18 completions in 32 passes 57% completion rate 222 passing yards per game 13 passing TDs, 13 INTs 6.95 ypa Man, those are some "star" quality numbers there, my friend. Here's one even better: Jeff Garcia - who you name as a "star" in response to my question - played a significant role in 6 games under Reid in PHI (unless you want to count the las game in his career in 2009 where he didn't accumulate a single passing stat) and had the following studly stats: averaged 19 completions in 31 passes 63% completion rate 213 passing yards per game 10 passing TDs, 2 INTs 6.96 ypa This is despite Garcia starting for 5 years in SF and racking up substantially better numbers as a starter there. And to call McNabb mediocre shows exactly how deeply your football acumen runs. To put up the numbers he did with the dog meat that Reid gave him at WR for almost his entire career there is nothing short of amazing. 1st off, congrats for putting "quotations" on a word that I never used....I actually started typing up this lengthy response from point out that AJ Feeley did much worse than those numbers in any other system or the fact that Garcia was at the end of his rope here....you're averaging a career where he had TO with him for 5 years way to go champ... so are you gonna bet or are you gonna keep wanking your vag? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted August 5, 2010 Share Posted August 5, 2010 I actually started typing up this lengthy response from point out that AJ Feeley did much worse than those numbers in any other system or the fact that Garcia was at the end of his rope here So you admit that Reid's O just doesn't spin off stars no matter what (despite your assertion), and that he happened to be blessed with Favre as an OC in GB and McNabb as a HC in PHI that might bump his O numbers up a bit? Or are you still sticking to the argument that Kolb will automatically be top 10 simply because he'll throw the ball 40 times a game (obviously a proven poor assumption on your part). Or do you really think that Kolb is going to be a better passer than McNabb in his best years even though this is his first full year as a starter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i_am_the_swammi Posted August 5, 2010 Share Posted August 5, 2010 So you admit that Reid's O just doesn't spin off stars no matter what (despite your assertion), and that he happened to be blessed with Favre as an OC in GB and McNabb as a HC in PHI that might bump his O numbers up a bit? Or are you still sticking to the argument that Kolb will automatically be top 10 simply because he'll throw the ball 40 times a game (obviously a proven poor assumption on your part). Or do you really think that Kolb is going to be a better passer than McNabb in his best years even though this is his first full year as a starter? Maybe pose the question to DMD? He has Kolb ranked 9th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted August 5, 2010 Share Posted August 5, 2010 So you admit that Reid's O just doesn't spin off stars no matter what (despite your assertion), and that he happened to be blessed with Favre as an OC in GB and McNabb as a HC in PHI that might bump his O numbers up a bit? Or are you still sticking to the argument that Kolb will automatically be top 10 simply because he'll throw the ball 40 times a game (obviously a proven poor assumption on your part). Or do you really think that Kolb is going to be a better passer than McNabb in his best years even though this is his first full year as a starter? maybe your reading comprehension isn't very good? either that or you are just reading what you want... are you going to take the bet? otherwise, you're just babbling off weak assumptions....because apparently productive = star...according to you anyways... if you're not going to take the bet, then shoo...that's all... you can sit here arguing about speculation or you can back up what you are saying...I'm willing to do it...why not you? it should be an easy $50 or so according to you... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted August 5, 2010 Share Posted August 5, 2010 Maybe pose the question to DMD? He has Kolb ranked 9th. 9th is about right....I have him 8th with an upswing to about 7th if he really impresses, but I like him at the 8 spot right now...especially if Maclin and DJax are healthy to start the season... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted August 5, 2010 Share Posted August 5, 2010 Maybe pose the question to DMD? He has Kolb ranked 9th. Why. I seem to have an expert here already to discuss the prognostications for Kolb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted August 5, 2010 Share Posted August 5, 2010 Why. I seem to have an expert here already to discuss the prognostications for Kolb. another great deflection by BB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted August 5, 2010 Share Posted August 5, 2010 another great deflection by BB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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