The Frogs are Working Harder Protesting Having to work

[bushwacked]

The dumb is strong with you.

 

 

Do you want to elaborate on how the French never helped out the US or do you just want to be a tosberg who embarrasses every conservative on the tailgate?

[tosberg34]

Do you want to elaborate on how the French never helped out the US or do you just want to be a tosberg bushwacked who embarrasses every conservative liberal on the tailgate?

 

Fixed, for accuracy.

 

I'm the conservative version of YOU. Haven't you figured that out yet?

Edited October 24, 2010 by tosberg34

[bushwacked]

Fixed, for accuracy.

 

I'm the conservative version of YOU. Haven't you figured that out yet?

 

How did the French never help out the US?

[WaterMan]

I mean, c'mon, you people only work 30 hours a week any how, so by the time you get done protesting you will have worked more than that 2 additional years at the rate your going right now...

 

After they killed their leaders, the people of France got to have things their way. A little history.

[Scooby's Hubby]

How did the French never help out the US?

Sure, they sent a couple of boats over to help slow down the British Navy.

 

We bailed them out of 2 BIG ONES and I mean bailed them out. I have seen the pictures of the Blitzkreig rolling through Paris and having a good time with their new conquest while the French were helpless.

 

What did we get? Mayonaise? The didn't even want our troops there once we saved them. When DeGaulle asked our General to send our troops home and he replied "just give us time to dig them all up" speaking of all those American soldiers buried and who died while defending France.

[Scooby's Hubby]

Do you want to elaborate on how the French never helped out the US or do you just want to be a tosberg who embarrasses every conservative on the tailgate?

Now please tell us all what we have been missing. What has France provided to us that they would never have done otherwise? Sure there is international trade, but they do that b/c it benefits them. What have they sacrificed for us? Please, enlighten us all here. I do not recall the French ever sacrificing their own lives for the life of Americans.

[Scooby's Hubby]

From Wikipedia ... about all you can find for help from France ...

 

[edit] Entry into the war

Main article: Franco-American alliance

 

Surrender of General Burgoyne at the Battle of Saratoga, by John Trumbull, 1822.The British had taken Philadelphia in 1777, but American victory at the Battle of Saratoga brought back hope to the Patriots and enthusiasm in France. The army of Burgoyne surrendered to American forces after Saratoga, and France realized that the Thirteen Colonies could be victorious. Consequently, King Louis directed Vergennes to negotiate an alliance with the Americans.

 

France formally recognized the United States on February 6, 1778, with the signing of the Treaty of Alliance. War followed not long after, when Britain declared war in France on March 17, 1778. The British naval force, then the largest fleet afloat, and French fleet confronted each other from the beginning. The British avoided intercepting a French fleet that left Toulon under the comte d'Estaing in April for North America, fearing the French fleet at Brest might then be used to launch an invasion of Britain. France had kept the Brest fleet to protect commercial shipping in European waters, and it sailed out only after a British fleet was confirmed to have left in pursuit of d'Estaing, thus weakening the British Channel fleet. In spite of this reduction the British fleet still outnumbered the French fleet at Brest, and Admiral d'Orvilliers was instructed to avoid combat when he sailed in July. D'Orvilliers met the fleet of Admiral Augustus Keppel in the indecisive Battle of Ushant on July 27, after which both fleets returned to port for repairs.

 

France did consider the landing of 40,000 men in the nearby British Isles, but abandoned the idea because of logistical issues. On the continent, France was protected through its alliance with Austria, which, even if it did not take part in the American Revolutionary War, affirmed its diplomatic support of France.

 

Other nations in Europe at first refused to openly join the war, but both Spain and the Dutch Republic gave unofficial support to the American cause. Vergennes was able to convince the Spanish to formally enter the war in 1779, and Britain declared war on the Dutch Republic in 1780 over claims of Dutch violations of neutrality.

 

[edit] North American operations

 

Surrender of Cornwallis to French troops (left) and American troops (right), at the Battle of Yorktown in 1781.French participation in North America was initially maritime in nature and marked by some indecision on the part of its military leaders. In 1778 American and French planners organized an attempt to capture Newport, Rhode Island, then under British occupation. The attempt failed, in part because Admiral d'Estaing did not land French troops prior to sailing out of Narragansett Bay to meet the British fleet, and then sailed for Boston after his fleet was damaged in a storm. In 1779, d'Estaing again lead his fleet to North America for joint operations, this time against British-held Savannah, Georgia. About 3,000 French joined with 2,000 Americans in the Siege of Savannah, in which a naval bombardment was unsuccessful, and then an attempted assault of the entrenched British position was repulsed with heavy losses.

 

Support became more notable when in 1780, 6,000 soldiers led by Rochambeau were landed at Newport, abandoned in 1779 by the British, and they established a naval base there. These forces were largely inactive since the fleet was closely watched by the British fleet from bases at New York and eastern Long Island. By early 1781, with the war dragging on, French military planners were finally convinced that more significant operations would be required in North America to bring a decisive end to the war. That year's West Indies fleet was commanded by the comte de Grasse, and specific arrangements were made to coordinate operations with him. De Grasse asked to be supplied with North American pilots, and to be informed of possible operations in North America that he might contribute to. Rochambeau and Washington met at Wethersfield, Connecticut in May 1781 to discuss their options. Washington wanted to drive the British from New York City, and the British force in Virginia, led first by turncoat Benedict Arnold, then by Brigadier William Phillips, and eventually by Charles Cornwallis, was also seen as a potent threat that could be fought with naval assistance. These two options were dispatched to the Caribbean along with the requested pilots; Rochambeau, in a separate letter, urged de Grasse to come to the Chesapeake Bay for operations in Virginia. Following the Wethersfield conference, Rochambeau moved his army to White Plains, New York and placed his command under Washington.

 

De Grasse received these letters in July, at roughly the same time Cornwallis was preparing to occupy Yorktown, Virginia. De Grasse concurred with Rochambeau, and sent back a dispatch indicating that he would reach the Chesapeake at the end of August, but that agreements with the Spanish meant he could only stay until mid-October. The arrival of his dispatches prompted the Franco-American army to begin a march for Virginia. De Grasse reached the Chesapeake as planned, and disembarked troops to assist Lafayette's army in the blockade of Cornwallis. The arrival of a British fleet sent to dispute de Grasse's control of the Chesapeake was defeated on September 5 at the Battle of the Chesapeake, and the Newport fleet delivered the French siege train to complete the allied military arrival. The Siege of Yorktown and following surrender by Cornwallis on October 19 were decisive in ending major hostilities in North America.

Edited October 25, 2010 by Scooby's Hubby

[Ursa Majoris]

I have seen the pictures of the Blitzkreig rolling through Paris

No you haven't. The French abandoned Paris about a week before the surrender in order to spare it from destruction. The Germans marched into Paris unopposed. Blitzkrieg literally means "lightning war". Since there was no opposition, there was no blitzkrieg.

[SEC=UGA]

No you haven't. The French abandoned Paris about a week before the surrender in order to spare it from destruction. The Germans marched into Paris unopposed. Blitzkrieg literally means "lightning war". Since there was no opposition, there was no blitzkrieg.

 

THe Blitz was supposedly at the Maginot line, no one was there, either...

 

I never really had a problem w. France until '86...

[Ursa Majoris]

THe Blitz was supposedly at the Maginot line, no one was there, either...

 

I never really had a problem w. France until '86...

The French placed a lot of faith in the Maginot Line. Unfortunately for them, the Germans simply went around it, attacking in the spring of 1940 through the Ardennes Forest.

[Scooby's Hubby]

I do not have my WW2 book at my office but try these... by Blitzkreig I mean the mere fact that the German Army waltzed into Paris. The Army being their Blitzkreig. Yes, German tanks did roll into Paris. I guess you would have preferred me to say Hitler's motorcade

 

http://www.hitlerpages.com/pagina96a.html

Edited October 25, 2010 by Scooby's Hubby

[Scooby's Hubby]

No you haven't. The French abandoned Paris about a week before the surrender in order to spare it from destruction. The Germans marched into Paris unopposed. Blitzkrieg literally means "lightning war". Since there was no opposition, there was no blitzkrieg.

 

I consider the Blitzkreig to be a Blitzkreig whether opposed or unopposed. Just b/c the French ran doesn't mean the Blitzkreig Tank Army didn't roll into Paris. It was just lightning with no Thunder.

Edited October 25, 2010 by Scooby's Hubby

[westvirginia]

From Wikipedia ... about all you can find for help from France ...

 

[edit] Entry into the war

Main article: Franco-American alliance

 

Surrender of General Burgoyne at the Battle of Saratoga, by John Trumbull, 1822.The British had taken Philadelphia in 1777, but American victory at the Battle of Saratoga brought back hope to the Patriots and enthusiasm in France. The army of Burgoyne surrendered to American forces after Saratoga, and France realized that the Thirteen Colonies could be victorious. Consequently, King Louis directed Vergennes to negotiate an alliance with the Americans.

 

France formally recognized the United States on February 6, 1778, with the signing of the Treaty of Alliance. War followed not long after, when Britain declared war in France on March 17, 1778. The British naval force, then the largest fleet afloat, and French fleet confronted each other from the beginning. The British avoided intercepting a French fleet that left Toulon under the comte d'Estaing in April for North America, fearing the French fleet at Brest might then be used to launch an invasion of Britain. France had kept the Brest fleet to protect commercial shipping in European waters, and it sailed out only after a British fleet was confirmed to have left in pursuit of d'Estaing, thus weakening the British Channel fleet. In spite of this reduction the British fleet still outnumbered the French fleet at Brest, and Admiral d'Orvilliers was instructed to avoid combat when he sailed in July. D'Orvilliers met the fleet of Admiral Augustus Keppel in the indecisive Battle of Ushant on July 27, after which both fleets returned to port for repairs.

 

France did consider the landing of 40,000 men in the nearby British Isles, but abandoned the idea because of logistical issues. On the continent, France was protected through its alliance with Austria, which, even if it did not take part in the American Revolutionary War, affirmed its diplomatic support of France.

 

Other nations in Europe at first refused to openly join the war, but both Spain and the Dutch Republic gave unofficial support to the American cause. Vergennes was able to convince the Spanish to formally enter the war in 1779, and Britain declared war on the Dutch Republic in 1780 over claims of Dutch violations of neutrality.

 

[edit] North American operations

 

Surrender of Cornwallis to French troops (left) and American troops (right), at the Battle of Yorktown in 1781.French participation in North America was initially maritime in nature and marked by some indecision on the part of its military leaders. In 1778 American and French planners organized an attempt to capture Newport, Rhode Island, then under British occupation. The attempt failed, in part because Admiral d'Estaing did not land French troops prior to sailing out of Narragansett Bay to meet the British fleet, and then sailed for Boston after his fleet was damaged in a storm. In 1779, d'Estaing again lead his fleet to North America for joint operations, this time against British-held Savannah, Georgia. About 3,000 French joined with 2,000 Americans in the Siege of Savannah, in which a naval bombardment was unsuccessful, and then an attempted assault of the entrenched British position was repulsed with heavy losses.

 

Support became more notable when in 1780, 6,000 soldiers led by Rochambeau were landed at Newport, abandoned in 1779 by the British, and they established a naval base there. These forces were largely inactive since the fleet was closely watched by the British fleet from bases at New York and eastern Long Island. By early 1781, with the war dragging on, French military planners were finally convinced that more significant operations would be required in North America to bring a decisive end to the war. That year's West Indies fleet was commanded by the comte de Grasse, and specific arrangements were made to coordinate operations with him. De Grasse asked to be supplied with North American pilots, and to be informed of possible operations in North America that he might contribute to. Rochambeau and Washington met at Wethersfield, Connecticut in May 1781 to discuss their options. Washington wanted to drive the British from New York City, and the British force in Virginia, led first by turncoat Benedict Arnold, then by Brigadier William Phillips, and eventually by Charles Cornwallis, was also seen as a potent threat that could be fought with naval assistance. These two options were dispatched to the Caribbean along with the requested pilots; Rochambeau, in a separate letter, urged de Grasse to come to the Chesapeake Bay for operations in Virginia. Following the Wethersfield conference, Rochambeau moved his army to White Plains, New York and placed his command under Washington.

 

De Grasse received these letters in July, at roughly the same time Cornwallis was preparing to occupy Yorktown, Virginia. De Grasse concurred with Rochambeau, and sent back a dispatch indicating that he would reach the Chesapeake at the end of August, but that agreements with the Spanish meant he could only stay until mid-October. The arrival of his dispatches prompted the Franco-American army to begin a march for Virginia. De Grasse reached the Chesapeake as planned, and disembarked troops to assist Lafayette's army in the blockade of Cornwallis. The arrival of a British fleet sent to dispute de Grasse's control of the Chesapeake was defeated on September 5 at the Battle of the Chesapeake, and the Newport fleet delivered the French siege train to complete the allied military arrival. The Siege of Yorktown and following surrender by Cornwallis on October 19 were decisive in ending major hostilities in North America.

 

Yeah, but look for the Marqis de Lafayette's role prior to the frogs entering the war officially. I have a descendant (Momma's Maiden name was Dorsey) who was a Captain D'Orsay seconded to Washington by ole' Gilbert himself.

[Dr. Sacrebleu]

Now please tell us all what we have been missing. What has France provided to us that they would never have done otherwise? Sure there is international trade, but they do that b/c it benefits them. What have they sacrificed for us? Please, enlighten us all here. I do not recall the French ever sacrificing their own lives for the life of Americans.

 

 

I know it's not much to you, but off the top of my head, i'm pretty sure that the families of the 50 dead french soldiers in Afghanistan probably felt that they sacrificed themselves defending American interests.

Of course you could argue that the french government was sending troops (and not that many at that) in their own self interest. But then again you could use that line of reasoning for any governmental action (such as the US intervening in WWII for example)

 

Either way, I know I can't expect many people here to have my back, after all the french are not exactly the most lovable people in the world, but they obviously don't have a monopoly on arrogance, as your post clearly demonstrates

[wiegie]

Once again... If you go to a school that costs 35K per year, DO NOT GET A DEGREE IN MUSIC AND JOURNALISM. YOU WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO GET A JOB THAT WILL BE PROLIFIC ENOUGH TO EVER REPAY YOUR STUDENT LOAN!!!

 

If you want to get a degree in Music or Journalism go to the freaking state school down the street from you that cost 1,800 a semester... If you want a degree in education, do not go to freaking Duke or Vanderbilt, go to the freaking state school down the street that costs 2,700 a semester...

 

The day my daughter walks into the house and says "Dad, I just got Accepted to Bucknell. I'm going to major in photography!!" Will be the first time I bloody my daughter's nose... You do not get a degree in photography from Bucknell. You do not go to MIT to major in education. You do not got to Yale to major in theatre. You do not go to Duke to major feminine studies... You go to freaking Georgia Southern, Southern Miss, UAB, UNC Char., Eastern Kentucky, etc... You kids are a bunch of freaking morons, how the hell did you get into these universities in the first freaking place... And you parents, wake the f up, if your kid or you are having to take out loans to send your child to Wake Forest for a degree in Sociology, you need to be punched and your child removed from the university because you are too dumb to understand that the ROI is too low.

absolutely correct

[Ursa Majoris]

I consider the Blitzkreig to be a Blitzkreig whether opposed or unopposed. Just b/c the French ran doesn't mean the Blitzkreig Tank Army didn't roll into Paris. It was just lightning with no Thunder.

Just because you consider something to be X doesn't mean it is X.

Edited October 25, 2010 by Ursa Majoris

[Azazello1313]

absolutely correct

 

yeah! send 'em to dump schools like GVSU if they're gonna insist on getting some useless social sciences degree!

[Scooby's Hubby]

I know it's not much to you, but off the top of my head, i'm pretty sure that the families of the 50 dead french soldiers in Afghanistan probably felt that they sacrificed themselves defending American interests.

Of course you could argue that the french government was sending troops (and not that many at that) in their own self interest. But then again you could use that line of reasoning for any governmental action (such as the US intervening in WWII for example)

 

Either way, I know I can't expect many people here to have my back, after all the french are not exactly the most lovable people in the world, but they obviously don't have a monopoly on arrogance, as your post clearly demonstrates

In all honesty, they died for Afghanastan, not America, just like our soldiers are dying for Afghanastan, not dying for America's freedom. Our freedom is not at stake, it is Afghanastan's. I appreciate your point but those French soldiers are dying for Afg.'s right of freedom, not for America's.

[Ursa Majoris]

In all honesty, they died for Afghanastan, not America, just like our soldiers are dying for Afghanastan, not dying for America's freedom. Our freedom is not at stake, it is Afghanastan's. I appreciate your point but those French soldiers are dying for Afg.'s right of freedom, not for America's.

[Scooby's Hubby]

How did the French never help out the US?

and you are right, they have never really backed away from any real help we have ever needed. but boy, are they hard to convince.

[Scooby's Hubby]

so you think we are in Afghanastan because America's freedoms are at stake? don't tell me we are still looking for Usama in Afg.

Edited October 25, 2010 by Scooby's Hubby

[Ursa Majoris]

so you think we are in Afghanastan because America's freedoms are at stake? don't tell me we are still looking for Usama in Afg.

No, the original premise was to attack the 9/11 attackers and supporters in their own base. The whole "defending our freedom" thing has always struck me as a complete canard anyway simply because, IMO, terrorists cannot eliminate our freedoms, they can only hope we do so ourselves out of fear. Our freedom is under far greater threat from other sources right here at home and they have nothing to do with terrorism save using it as an excuse sometimes.

 

But to say these troops died for Afghanistan is just ridiculous. I doubt there's one of their family members who think that. There are probably a large number that subscribe to the "defending our freedom" thing and that's fine if it helps. I prefer to hope that we are there to kill and isolate terrorists by undermining their support networks myself.

[SEC=UGA]

No, the original premise was to attack the 9/11 attackers and supporters in their own base. The whole "defending our freedom" thing has always struck me as a complete canard anyway simply because, IMO, terrorists cannot eliminate our freedoms, they can only hope we do so ourselves out of fear. Our freedom is under far greater threat from other sources right here at home and they have nothing to do with terrorism save using it as an excuse sometimes.

 

But to say these troops died for Afghanistan is just ridiculous. I doubt there's one of their family members who think that. There are probably a large number that subscribe to the "defending our freedom" thing and that's fine if it helps. I prefer to hope that we are there to kill and isolate terrorists by undermining their support networks myself.

 

+ Cre8tiff's sig line

[Scooby's Hubby]

No, the original premise was to attack the 9/11 attackers and supporters in their own base. The whole "defending our freedom" thing has always struck me as a complete canard anyway simply because, IMO, terrorists cannot eliminate our freedoms, they can only hope we do so ourselves out of fear. Our freedom is under far greater threat from other sources right here at home and they have nothing to do with terrorism save using it as an excuse sometimes].

 

But to say these troops died for Afghanistan is just ridiculous. I doubt there's one of their family members who think that. There are probably a large number that subscribe to the "defending our freedom" thing and that's fine if it helps. I prefer to hope that we are there to kill and isolate terrorists by undermining their support networks myself.

 

So you are saying we are there to irradicate and obstruct Terrorists and terrorism...I can go with that, but then I ask myself why aren't we in Somalia and Eastern Africa? Because we will look like Crusaders to those Muslim nations?

 

Correct, we are not there for America's freedom, as you state in your 1st paragaph. therefore, the French soldiers did not die for America's freedoms over there. they did not die for America. and the biggest benefactor will be Afghan people (supposedly). giving Afghanastan back to their people is a small step toward irradicaating terrorism from the planet. it is a war on terrorism, but we are now getting close to 10 years of this and you have to ask yourself WHY are we there still TODAY? Just my

[Ursa Majoris]

Correct, we are not there for America's freedom, as you state in your 1st paragaph. therefore, the French soldiers did not die for America's freedoms over there. they did not die for America.

They died because they are soldiers and soldiers undertake a certain risk through their profession. At a higher level, however, they died because France and a large number of NATO and other nations agreed to support their major ally by providing troops to assist in Afghanistan (and Iraq). We can argue back and forth over whether that support has been sufficient or not but the bald fact is that those French soldiers died in Afghanistan because there is a support agreement between the two nations.