Illinois....what's up with your Governator?

[tazinib1]

Guess he didn't run on a "No New Taxes" platform Edited January 13, 2011 by tazinib1

[bpwallace49]

This has been years and years in the making. Even though I am not happy with it, I give the guy big props for actually having the balls to what needs to be done versus what is politically popular to do.

 

If both parties behaved this responsibly in the past , then these actions would not be needed now.

 

F'kn politicans

[gilthorp]

There is a small chance this Governor may not actually have to stand trial in the near future.

[bpwallace49]

There is a small chance this Governor may not actually have to stand trial in the near future.

 

and break the streak?

[Grimm74]

Isnt Illinois the only state with budget problems that is trying to solve it by just raising taxes?

 

This bill should have included cuts....IL is heading for more trouble with this bill.

 

I am a conservative thinker and have no problems with raising taxes in the short term as long as you match those hikes with cuts.

 

Also raising corporate taxes never bolsters employment in your state.

[bpwallace49]

Isnt Illinois the only state with budget problems that is trying to solve it by just raising taxes?

 

This bill should have included cuts....IL is heading for more trouble with this bill.

I am a conservative thinker and have no problems with raising taxes in the short term as long as you match those hikes with cuts.

 

Also raising corporate taxes never bolsters employment in your state.

 

On the 2 bolded items. Quinn DID cut a ton before this bill was passed. Something like 2-3 billion already. Unfortunately that is a drop in the bucket with how far up diaper dirt creek we are.

 

the 2nd one is a valid point. But Illinois is still below most states in the midwest . . so it is still more than competitive.

 

I hope the other 49 states are paying attention . . cause this is a case study of when you get in over your head and when you have to pay the piper.

[Grimm74]

On the 2 bolded items. Quinn DID cut a ton before this bill was passed. Something like 2-3 billion already. Unfortunately that is a drop in the bucket with how far up diaper dirt creek we are.

 

the 2nd one is a valid point. But Illinois is still below most states in the midwest . . so it is still more than competitive.

 

I hope the other 49 states are paying attention . . cause this is a case study of when you get in over your head and when you have to pay the piper.

 

I do not want to disrespect 2 Billion in cuts but they are still left with a 13 billion dollar DEFICIT... We are not even talking about paying down the mountain of debt.

 

So 2 billion in cuts and 13 billion in increased taxes....IMHO this just does not seem like a long term recipe for success.

 

Ive participated in a couple of conventions in Chicago. At both I could not take my booth(box on wheels) into the convention center. I had to pay a union worker $250 to do it for me. I will no longer attend conferences there. From what I understand the large organization in which put the convention together will no longer go there as well. Why would you? All of this is a problem for the state.

[Grimm74]

http://money.cnn.com/2011/01/13/news/econo..._hike/index.htm

 

Big trouble is head to that state. How many companies will want to move to a northern climate, with high taxes, and massive unions? I live in SC where it is not union friendly and has reasonable taxes. Boeing just built a plant that will add over 3,000 factory jobs and about 45,000 support jobs.

 

LIke I said IL is headed down a dying path. Organic growth will not be able to support the Government expense sheet with a reducing tax base.

[bpwallace49]

I do not want to disrespect 2 Billion in cuts but they are still left with a 13 billion dollar DEFICIT... We are not even talking about paying down the mountain of debt.

 

So 2 billion in cuts and 13 billion in increased taxes....IMHO this just does not seem like a long term recipe for success.

 

Ive participated in a couple of conventions in Chicago. At both I could not take my booth(box on wheels) into the convention center. I had to pay a union worker $250 to do it for me. I will no longer attend conferences there. From what I understand the large organization in which put the convention together will no longer go there as well. Why would you? All of this is a problem for the state.

 

All good points. Rahmbo has already said that union overreach must be reversed, and Quinn is attempting to revise the pension structure while trying to fix decades of not fulfilling obligations. Plus the union stuff you talk about at McCormick place was already addressed in the last year as conventions started leaving. Their overreach had reached the breaking point (at least for work at McCormick place)

 

Dude examine this statement and compare it with almost ANY other politician lately. Quinn cut around TWO TO THREE BILLION in spending. Plus he is a Democrat. That is like seeing bigfoot riding the Loch Ness Monster with the Abomidable Snowman water skiing behind them. The increases are needed to pay decades of not fulfilling obligations by both parties.

[gilthorp]

It's not like other Midwestern States aren't noticing the path here....Wisconsin Governor has a presser stating "We are Open for Business"...and criticizing Quinn.

 

Pretty funny stuff, eh!

 

This will effect me and I'll need to cut back in order to prepare for it. I will be watching closely. If this does not make a difference, we are screwed for sure, but the jobs have been lost here already...the carnage is in full effect for the last 7 years. I don't think Quinn has a choice but to do this.

Edited January 13, 2011 by gilthorp

[Yukon Cornelius]

It's not like other Midwestern States aren't noticing the path here....Wisconsin Governor has a presser stating "We are Open for Business"...and criticizing Quinn.

 

Pretty funny stuff, eh!

 

This will effect me and I'll need to cut back in order to prepare for it. I will be watching closely. If this does not make a difference, we are screwed for sure, but the jobs have been lost here already...the carnage is in full effect for the last 7 years. I don't think Quinn has a choice but to do this.

Wisconsin income taxes will still be higher than ILL .

[Grimm74]

All good points. Rahmbo has already said that union overreach must be reversed, and Quinn is attempting to revise the pension structure while trying to fix decades of not fulfilling obligations. Plus the union stuff you talk about at McCormick place was already addressed in the last year as conventions started leaving. Their overreach had reached the breaking point (at least for work at McCormick place)

 

Dude examine this statement and compare it with almost ANY other politician lately. Quinn cut around TWO TO THREE BILLION in spending. Plus he is a Democrat. That is like seeing bigfoot riding the Loch Ness Monster with the Abomidable Snowman water skiing behind them. The increases are needed to pay decades of not fulfilling obligations by both parties.

 

I am in no way trying to make this about a party. I do not know the history of the IL government expenditures. I know of horrible spending by both parties.

 

Quinn has absolutely NO, none, zippo choice to do what he is doing so I am not going to applaud his big foot riding Nessy performance. I do think he could have done a MUCH better job of cutting cost while raising taxes to a somewhat competitive rate. I am going to guess he did just enough to keep the bond holders happy for now, b/c they control the states fate. Corporate taxes in IL are amongst the highest in the US. On top of this rate there is that corporate surtax bringing the total corp tax to about 9.5%. SC is 5% AND you deduct your fed taxes out before calculating that figure. Not all states do that. I am not trying to ring SC's bell b/c there are better.

 

In IL defense I do believe there is an expiration for the tax increase. At some point they have to be able to reduce taxes and then live within their means. The last stat I heard on IL is that 50% of their budget is debt servicing. Imagine if bond investors just stopped buying....that number would shoot to 75-90% of budget....then game over. Bankruptcy and all union, pension, and etc contracts are void.... It really is what needs to happen.

[Grimm74]

Wisconsin income taxes will still be higher than ILL .

 

Wisc is at 7.9% and IL will be 7.3% but IL has a 2-3% corporate surcharge the Wisc does not. Please correct me if I am wrong.

[borge007]

In IL defense I do believe there is an expiration for the tax increase. At some point they have to be able to reduce taxes and then live within their means. The last stat I heard on IL is that 50% of their budget is debt servicing. Imagine if bond investors just stopped buying....that number would shoot to 75-90% of budget....then game over. Bankruptcy and all union, pension, and etc contracts are void.... It really is what needs to happen.

 

That might be a good idea-unless you are one of those people that worked 30+ years and paid into a pension fund. Do you think that is a good idea to void that contract?

[Grimm74]

In IL defense I do believe there is an expiration for the tax increase. At some point they have to be able to reduce taxes and then live within their means. The last stat I heard on IL is that 50% of their budget is debt servicing. Imagine if bond investors just stopped buying....that number would shoot to 75-90% of budget....then game over. Bankruptcy and all union, pension, and etc contracts are void.... It really is what needs to happen.

 

That might be a good idea-unless you are one of those people that worked 30+ years and paid into a pension fund. Do you think that is a good idea to void that contract?

 

Because they work for the Government this is off limits...???

 

Opps Enron, Worldcom, and etc employees SORRY you were not among the privileged government employed. I think pensions should be done away with and replaced with a 401k. A pension creates a massive off balance sheet obligation or debt that goes falsely reported. The government is pulling the same accounting gimmicks as those companies above.

 

Also, under bankruptcy, pensions do not need to be wiped out completely just restructured. By the way just about everyone in the US works 30+ years...

[borge007]

Because they work for the Government this is off limits...???

 

Opps Enron, Worldcom, and etc employees SORRY you were not among the privileged government employed. I think pensions should be done away with and replaced with a 401k. A pension creates a massive off balance sheet obligation or debt that goes falsely reported. The government is pulling the same accounting gimmicks as those companies above.

 

Also, under bankruptcy, pensions do not need to be wiped out completely just restructured. By the way just about everyone in the US works 30+ years...

Where are you going to get the $$ for your 401K. I put 8 1/2 per cent of MY money in my pension but you think because I was a "privileged' government employee(teacher) I Should have my pension done away with? You sir are nuts.

[Grimm74]

Where are you going to get the $$ for your 401K. I put 8 1/2 per cent of MY money in my pension but you think because I was a "privileged' government employee(teacher) I Should have my pension done away with? You sir are nuts.

 

I am going to get my $$ from the same place you are. I am not nuts for thinking a government employee has just the same "right" as a private sector employee to lose their pension via bankruptcy.... How is that nuts? You are the one starting to sound unreasonable....and again it is in your BEST interest for IL to restructure instead of going belly up... I never ever ever said you should have your pension done away with in the sense of a bankruptcy. So PLEASE PLEASE stop putting words in my mouth. I do think pensions in general should be done away with. You are much safer putting your dollars in a 401k then in a pension. Ive seen 401k's lose value but never go to zero b/c of bankruptcy. On another note I have NO clue how your pension is set up. So in terms of bankruptcy I do not know how your pension would be treated.

 

I think you are owed the 8.5% plus whatever a typical return is and that is what you should live off of. NOTHING more... I could do the math for you to show you what you put in and what you should earn and how long those dollars would last if you want. To be honest in your case you could be earning an honest retirement but in a lot of cases they are not earning an honest retirement. BUT the straight math usually isn't the problem when it comes to pension funding.

 

With the number 8.5% and a fair(high) return of 7% you should be able to retire after 30 years at 72% pay for the rest of your life. For someone averaging $60k a year you would earn 43k and your children would inherit $875,000 once you die. Is this what you have been promised? Please include everything you will get from the state if you think about this. I can be completely WRONG in your case but there are cases of outright abuse.

 

But again the straight math isnt always the problem

 

In short PENSIONS in general are BAD...b/c they are basically an average mans 401k BUT insured by the government in the case of government employees... How is that right at all? I could retire with a 401k...then it tanks and I end up earning 50% of what I thought....at the same time your pension should have tanked with my 401k and you earn less as well....but NO. The 401k guy earning 50% less on top of his LESS pay he has to subsidies YOUR retirement pay through taxes which of COURSE stays the same. FAIR.... heck no... I mean HECK NO.

 

This article outlines how pensions are also bad for employees/teachers.

 

http://www.illinoisisbroke.com/newsitem.aspx?id=657

[bpwallace49]

I am going to get my $$ from the same place you are. I am not nuts for thinking a government employee has just the same "right" as a private sector employee to lose their pension via bankruptcy.... How is that nuts? You are the one starting to sound unreasonable....and again it is in your BEST interest for IL to restructure instead of going belly up... I never ever ever said you should have your pension done away with in the sense of a bankruptcy. So PLEASE PLEASE stop putting words in my mouth. I do think pensions in general should be done away with. You are much safer putting your dollars in a 401k then in a pension. Ive seen 401k's lose value but never go to zero b/c of bankruptcy. On another note I have NO clue how your pension is set up. So in terms of bankruptcy I do not know how your pension would be treated.

 

I think you are owed the 8.5% plus whatever a typical return is and that is what you should live off of. NOTHING more... I could do the math for you to show you what you put in and what you should earn and how long those dollars would last if you want. To be honest in your case you could be earning an honest retirement but in a lot of cases they are not earning an honest retirement. BUT the straight math usually isn't the problem when it comes to pension funding.

 

With the number 8.5% and a fair(high) return of 7% you should be able to retire after 30 years at 72% pay for the rest of your life. For someone averaging $60k a year you would earn 43k and your children would inherit $875,000 once you die. Is this what you have been promised? Please include everything you will get from the state if you think about this. I can be completely WRONG in your case but there are cases of outright abuse.

 

But again the straight math isnt always the problem

 

In short PENSIONS in general are BAD...b/c they are basically an average mans 401k BUT insured by the government in the case of government employees... How is that right at all? I could retire with a 401k...then it tanks and I end up earning 50% of what I thought....at the same time your pension should have tanked with my 401k and you earn less as well....but NO. The 401k guy earning 50% less on top of his LESS pay he has to subsidies YOUR retirement pay through taxes which of COURSE stays the same. FAIR.... heck no... I mean HECK NO.

 

This article outlines how pensions are also bad for employees/teachers.

 

http://www.illinoisisbroke.com/newsitem.aspx?id=657

 

Grimm, you DO know that these are mandated in the state constitution . . . right? For example, teachers are told that they HAVE to contribute x amount and that the state WILL contribute X amount. I compare it to if you worked at a company and that company was telling you for 20 years that they were matching your VOLUNTARY 401K contributions. Then you retire, and they say "yeah . . just kidding. We really didnt contribute what we said we were doing. when we hired you."

 

The state lawmakers and every rep since got themselves in this mess. unfortunately this fix moving forward it going to effect people that did nothing but follow the rules and do what was asked of them. The state reps did not. Now we ALL have to pay the piper.

 

(and grimm, I am an outspoken opponent of most unions in general and teachers unions in specific. that doesnt mean that those people shouldnt get what they were MANDATED to contribute, or what they were told when the state promised to match said funds)

 

EDIT= And Grimm, your IRA or 401k is OPTIONAL. These pensions are MANDATED if you want to be hired. It isnt a choice.

Edited January 14, 2011 by bpwallace49

[Grimm74]

Grimm, you DO know that these are mandated in the state constitution . . . right? For example, teachers are told that they HAVE to contribute x amount and that the state WILL contribute X amount. I compare it to if you worked at a company and that company was telling you for 20 years that they were matching your VOLUNTARY 401K contributions. Then you retire, and they say "yeah . . just kidding. We really didnt contribute what we said we were doing. when we hired you."

 

The state lawmakers and every rep since got themselves in this mess. unfortunately this fix moving forward it going to effect people that did nothing but follow the rules and do what was asked of them. The state reps did not. Now we ALL have to pay the piper.

 

(and grimm, I am an outspoken opponent of most unions in general and teachers unions in specific. that doesnt mean that those people shouldnt get what they were MANDATED to contribute, or what they were told when the state promised to match said funds)

 

EDIT= And Grimm, your IRA or 401k is OPTIONAL. These pensions are MANDATED if you want to be hired. It isnt a choice.

 

Yes, I DO know. I am not blaming teachers nor do I want them to lose their retirement. WHERE are you guys getting this? I want to get rid of pensions not wipe out pensions, b/c states obviously are not capable of running them.

 

When I say blame I am speaking outside of the context of their union, b/c they are liable for what their union does.

[bpwallace49]

Yes, I DO know. I am not blaming teachers nor do I want them to lose their retirement. WHERE are you guys getting this? I want to get rid of pensions not wipe out pensions, b/c states obviously are not capable of running them.

 

When I say blame I am speaking outside of the context of their union, b/c they are liable for what their union does.

 

And that is the first step of what is being done in IL. They renegotiated deals, and the tax hikes to fulfill past obligations.

 

Rhambo 9who isnt even elected . . . yet) has stated that the uniuon pension system HAS to and WILL change.

 

We have now come full circle. . . .

[Grimm74]

That's great. Ill believe it when I see it.

[Ursa Majoris]

I want to get rid of pensions not wipe out pensions, b/c states obviously are not capable of running them.

I agree with this in general, all other things being equal. I can't see why both public and private employees shouldn't have the same retirement vehicle. No new hire in any field should be pensioned.

 

That said, the existing obligations should be honored as far as possible.

[cre8tiff]

This is the same as we had to do when Clinton was in office. I was fine with paying more taxes, as long as it bought the deficit down. It's part of being a responsible citizen.

 

However, as soon as it is bought down, a conservative will come in and run it back up again.

 

 

It's called the "Bush model".

[redrumjuice]

Leadership!

 

Did everyone already forget that we raised taxes and fees in ’09? It wasn’t income tax. It was sales taxes, license plate fees, and the fool’s gold of video poker. This is funding the Capital Bill. Did you know the Capital Bill is $31 Billion? Did you know that none of the money went to pay our overdue bills? Nope. The money went to new “projects”.

 

While attending a function at which Senator AJ Wilhelmi spoke, he actually bragged the following fact. In the last few years, states across the US have passed $38 Billion in Capital expenditures. Of that, Illinois has $31 Billion. Digest that please. The fiscally worst state in the nation is spending four times more than the rest of the 49 states combined! This was reconfirmed by him at a later forum — proudly.

 

The Illinois budget deficit is $15 billion. Last time I checked, $31 Billion is greater than $15 Billion. Did anyone think of cutting some waste from the Capital Bill to bridge the budget crisis? No. I don’t have the time or resources to FOIA details of the thousands of expenditures in the Capital Bill. But here are some of the secrets I do know…

United Neighborhood Organization is getting $98 Million. Sounds like a nice organization. I decided to google them. Their home page is here. It states that it is “Modeled after the Saul Alinsky style of community organizing.” If you don’t know who Saul Alinsky is, google “Saul Alinsky Marxist”. The CEO of UNO is a gentleman by the name of Juan Rangel. He also happens to be one of Rahm Emanuel’s campaign co-chairman.

 

Must make you proud to be a union leftist goon illinoian.

 

http://www.cdobs.com/archive/featured/what...d-organization/

[WaterMan]

http://money.cnn.com/2011/01/13/news/econo..._hike/index.htm

 

Big trouble is head to that state. How many companies will want to move to a northern climate, with high taxes, and massive unions? I live in SC where it is not union friendly and has reasonable taxes. Boeing just built a plant that will add over 3,000 factory jobs and about 45,000 support jobs.

 

LIke I said IL is headed down a dying path. Organic growth will not be able to support the Government expense sheet with a reducing tax base.

 

I live in SC too and see alot of businesses moving out of the north.