Taxes at their lowest since 1950

[Azazello1313]

 

I think yukon nailed it

[Azazello1313]

it's also worth noting that the article leaves out the fact that, under current law, tax revenues are likely to surge to post-WWII highs as a percentage of GDP if the economy ever recovers. (see page 86 of the report, page 104 of the pdf)

[wiegie]

I’m talking about the truth, Mr. economics professor of Keynesian philosophy (a philosophy encouraged by our fabulous government). Here's the breakdown of the sham:

-US Treasury borrows (that means the government owes interest on printed money) money by selling Treasury bonds in the open market (known as P.O.M.O.)

-The FED buys the majority of these bonds from banks and financial institutions. BUT, there is no actual buying. The FED, by law, is allowed to fabricate a new checking account for the seller where the bonds (now owned/held by the FED) serve as assets or backing for this new, printed money.

-The sellers (banks, financial institutions) of these bonds are now even, the FED owns the US backed bonds and the US Treasury has the 'new' money.

- This new money has interest attached to it from its inception and that interest must be paid back by the US Treasury or more accurately known as the tax payers of this ‘great’ nation.

 

So to summarize the above process - the government essentially created it's own bank account from nothing by monetizing debt. Each time this transaction occurs, new money is created. However, the new money does not create new value. The new money has value but only at the expense of a decrease in the value of 'older' dollars. So all older dollar holders (tax payers) have the same number of dollars but since there are more dollars in circulation, the older dollars have less purchasing power. It is important to realize this process legally shifts wealth from the dollar savers (earners) to the Fed and the US Treasury without the permission of the savers/earners (tax payers). And who pays for the interest on these ‘borrowed’ dollars? That’s right, the tax payer again. So we are getting doubly f*cked by this process. First by inflation (lower purchasing power of older dollars) and then by being taxed to pay the interest on these new dollars.

So, in other words, we don't pay interest on dollars like you claimed.

 

We pay interest on government debt--interest we would have to pay no matter who purchased the debt.

 

And to the extent that the Fed monetizes government debt, which is not very much, there is what is sometimes referred to as an "inflation tax".

 

But we don't pay interest on Federal Reserve Notes.

[wiegie]

it's also worth noting that the article leaves out the fact that, under current law, tax revenues are likely to surge to post-WWII highs as a percentage of GDP if the economy ever recovers. (see page 86 of the report, page 104 of the pdf)

good, that makes sense

 

cut taxes during recesssions, increase taxes during booms (the same as we should increase gov spending during recessions and cut it during booms)

[Brentastic]

So, in other words, we don't pay interest on dollars like you claimed.

 

We pay interest on government debt--interest we would have to pay no matter who purchased the debt.

 

And to the extent that the Fed monetizes government debt, which is not very much, there is what is sometimes referred to as an "inflation tax".

 

But we don't pay interest on Federal Reserve Notes.

Every printed dollar is monetized debt - so, yes, we do pay interest on dollars. Regardess of whether you agree on the correct terminology, you obviously agree on my post detailing the process. So what's your dispute? And why are you ok with this thievery??

[Perchoutofwater]

New taxes under Obama.

[Perchoutofwater]

Obama budget calls for increasing the amount employers have to pay in unemployment insurance. Edited February 8, 2011 by Perchoutofwater

[redrumjuice]

"Just 16 days into his presidency, Obama signed into law a 156 percent increase in the federal excise tax on tobacco -- a hike of 62 cents per pack," Americans for Tax Reform said in a press release Monday, arguing that Obama's approval of this tax hike was a violation on his campaign pledge not to raise taxes on the middle class.

[yo mama]

"Just 16 days into his presidency, Obama signed into law a 156 percent increase in the federal excise tax on tobacco -- a hike of 62 cents per pack," Americans for Tax Reform said in a press release Monday, arguing that Obama's approval of this tax hike was a violation on his campaign pledge not to raise taxes on the middle class.

A cigarette tax isn't a tax on the middle class - its a tax on smokers, who exist in every tax bracket.

 

You guys are grasping at straws with this nonsense. He kept income taxes low and gutted estate and gift taxes. You should be licking this guys nuts, but instead you (nonsmokers) gripe about cigarette taxes.

[redrumjuice]

"You know, at some point... you've made enough money."

[bpwallace49]

In some instances yes. If the government is forcing me to provide health care to my employees, or face fine, then basically it is taxing me. Implementing cumbersome regulations cost money. Money that could otherwise be used to buy me more ivory backscratchers and smokers large enough to roast a elephant.

 

fixed.

[wiegie]

Every printed dollar is monetized debt - so, yes, we do pay interest on dollars. Regardess of whether you agree on the correct terminology, you obviously agree on my post detailing the process. So what's your dispute? And why are you ok with this thievery??

We pay interest on government debt regardless of whether it is held by the Fed, China or some 12 year-old who just got a government savings bond from his grandma.

 

You make it sound as though all government debt that it is issued is bought by the Fed. This is simply not true. For instance, in October, 2007, the Fed held 8.6% of all government debt. In January 2011, the Fed actually is only holding 7.36% of total government debt.

 

Furthermore, your whole attack on the Fed seems to indicate that the Fed gets to keep all of the profits it makes from interest. This isn't true. The Fed's dividend payments to member banks are capped at 6% and any money received above and beyond that is given back to the US Treasury. For example, in 2009, the Fed gave the Treasury $47 billion and last year it gave the Treasury $74 billion.

[Brentastic]

We pay interest on government debt regardless of whether it is held by the Fed, China or some 12 year-old who just got a government savings bond from his grandma.

 

You make it sound as though all government debt that it is issued is bought by the Fed. This is simply not true. For instance, in October, 2007, the Fed held 8.6% of all government debt. In January 2011, the Fed actually is only holding 7.36% of total government debt.

 

Furthermore, your whole attack on the Fed seems to indicate that the Fed gets to keep all of the profits it makes from interest. This isn't true. The Fed's dividend payments to member banks are capped at 6% and any money received above and beyond that is given back to the US Treasury. For example, in 2009, the Fed gave the Treasury $47 billion and last year it gave the Treasury $74 billion.

I understand that the Fed doesn't buy all government debt but I also think your numbers can be misleading. For instance, the Fed can buy billions of dollars worth of govt securities (debt) and then sell whatever it wants in the open market. The end result is that the Fed initially owned a large % but then unloaded it which makes the Fed's ownership of this debt seem minimal. However, the basic fact still remains in that every created dollar has interest attached to it and we pay this through income tax. The end holder of this debt doesn't matter much because it's usually the Fed who initiates the process.

 

I also understand the 6% dividend to it's member banks (incidently, these member banks are the true owners of the Fed) but you are discounting the printed money itself as being profit. This printed money is a large portion of their profits because the law allows them to create the money to purchase the debt out of thin air and it's this process that transfers wealth from real dollar earners/savers to the Fed. So the rate of inflation is the same rate as their profit growth. The US government is part of this scam.