The flip side of tougher immigration laws

[bpwallace49]

Twin immigration laws create labor crisis for American farmers

By Liz Goodwin

 

 

Georgia, Alabama, and Utah are the first states to follow in the footsteps of Arizona, passing laws that expand the power of local police to check the immigration status of residents. Legislators who back the new laws say they're sending a message that they want illegal immigrants to leave their states, and that the federal government should do more to stop illegal immigration.

 

Apparently, migrant farm workers have listened, at least in Georgia.

 

The Georgia Fruit and Vegetable Growers Association told CNN that after Gov. Nathan Deal signed a law modeled after Arizona's SB1070 in May, farm workers have fled the area. Some farmers lost as much as 50 percent of their workforce, they say. (The law is already being challenged in court; Arizona's similar SB 1070 has been blocked by two higher courts.)

 

 

Fifth-generation Georgia farmer Gary Paulk told local paper The Daily Journal that he has only been able to find half of the 300 workers he needs to pick his blueberry fields, and that's after hiking wages 20 percent. Another farmer said he had to switch to (less efficient) machines when he couldn't find enough workers for his fields this spring.

 

"A lot of migrant workers who may have migrated to Georgia are avoiding the place," says Agriculture Coalition for Immigration Reform Chair Craig Regelbrugge. "The field reports are pointing to significant loss of crops."

 

Gov. Deal is now pushing to recruit native-born Georgians to fill the gaps, arguing that the high unemployment rate should make that possible. Nationally, about 85 percent of all agriculture workers are foreign-born, and as many as 70 to 75 percent are undocumented.

 

Industry insiders tell The Lookout that politicians shouldn't hold their breath while waiting for Americans to flock to farm jobs.

 

"Our economists have estimated that in the U.S. economy there are 10 million-plus people who work at wages lower than what they could make in agriculture because they aren't attracted to the work," American Farm Bureau Federation government relations director Paul Schlegel said. He says the long hours, irregular employment and physical demands of farm jobs mean Americans would rather work elsewhere for less.

 

Diana Tellefson, the director of the United Farm Workers union, says when her organization asked Americans to sign up for farm jobs last year--via a dedicated Internet campaign that Stephen Colbert publicized on his show--thousands responded, but only 11 people accepted the offer.

 

The campaign, called "Take Our Jobs," originated as a few Arizona farm workers' response to politicians who said they wanted to pass tougher legislation so that illegal immigrants don't take citizens' jobs.

 

"Few citizens express interest, in large part because this is hard, tough work," Agriculture Secretary Tom Vilsak said, according to the AP. "Our broken immigration system offers little hope for producers to do the right thing."

 

Anti-illegal immigration groups like FAIR argue that if illegal immigration goes down, wages would go up for farm jobs, and then native-born Americans and legal immigrants would want them. Farmers say they can't afford to pay more.

 

Around the country, states are considering a cocktail of measures that both sanction employees who hire undocumented workers and empower local cops to question people about their immigration status. Arizona's employer sanctions law was recently upheld by the Supreme Court, which means many more states may soon adopt similar measures. Agricultural advocates say their business is uniquely dependent on migrant labor, and these laws could put them out of business.

 

Georgia's new E-verify law--which will require all employers to ensure their workers are documented--may have the most direct effect on farmers. But Regelbrugge says it's the state's law that expands police authority to question immigrants about their status that seems to be most spooking migrant workers themselves.

 

"What's really happening is there is a climate of fear, there is a climate of concern that--whether the law calls for it or not--racial profiling will happen," he says. The law forbids officers from racial profiling when they choose who to screen for immigration status.

 

Regelbrugge says there are also signs of farm labor shortages in Florida, Georgia, Michigan and California. It's unclear what exactly is causing the dearth of workers, but he speculates that increased border security has kept some migrants who would have returned to Mexico after the picking season in the United States, where they have then moved into other industries. Tougher borders also mean fewer migrant workers are willing to risk coming into the United States to replace them.

 

While there's a federal visa program, H2a, to recruit foreign seasonal farm workers, farmers describe it as overly bureaucratic and too expensive. Among other things, it requires farmers to provide free housing that passes federal inspections for workers, when they say some seasonal workers on the border prefer to commute home and do not want to live on the farm. In a survey, 92 percent of Georgian farmers said they don't use the H2a visa program.

 

Nationally, Schlegel says the Farm Bureau is most focused on an e-verify law that will be proposed in Congress this year. The group is asking that the agricultural industry be excepted from any proposed employer sanctions law.

 

"There's an increasing level of anxiety on the impact it will have on labor availability," Schlegel says of state-by-state enforcement laws.

 

Damn illegal immigrants . . naturally this is all Obama's fault.

 

Blueberries were less than a cent a berry under Bush!

 

[SayItAintSoJoe]

Damn illegal immigrants . . naturally this is all Obama's fault.

 

Blueberries were less than a cent a berry under Bush!

 

 

Don't worry these jobs will soon be filled by all the Americans that have been wanting these jobs for years.

[SEC=UGA]

Interesting and strangely enough, timely.

 

I was actually talking to my wife last night. She had spoken with her mom, who was amazed that the guy that owns the blueberry farm down the street from them had, gasp, white people working the fields.

 

My MIL stopped to talk with her neighbor and sure enough, he was having trouble finding messicans to pick the blueberries. He went on to say that a friend of his, who owns a cantaloupe farm, is having the same issues with finding messican labor and actually hired, gasp, local white and black guys.

 

Now, these areas where my in-laws live aren't exactly what you would call suburban, in fact, they may be something beyond rural, so there aren't a bunch of jobs to begin with (it is interesting when I hear stories from when my in-laws and their family were growing up how they would work summers picking tobacco, cotton and vegetables. Even more interesting is that my BIL and his friends would pick tobacco while growing up to get some pocket money over the summers, only 15-18 years ago.) It seems that a number of the natives without jobs and unemployment running out are going to work on the farms, they have no real choice.

 

I did not have a discussion with the wife about whether her mom and the neighbor discussed how much more, if at all, the new local labor is paid, but do find it quite interesting that since push has come to shove real live US Citizens are stepping up and picking our produce once more.

 

With regard to the law, if DC isn't going to do anything to curtail the influx of illegals or develop a means to track them and keep them from exploiting public resources then we must start somewhere.

 

True immigration reform needs to be enacted and more work visas extended- Register them, Track them, remove birthright citizenship, make sure they are employed... if not, ship them the fu(k home when you find them. We can't keep going at the same rate we are right now.

 

ETA: We also had to hire some new laborers, most of the people who came in and interviewed and were subsequently hired were white males who would never have shown up 2, 3, 4, 10 years ago.

Edited June 7, 2011 by SEC=UGA

[Ursa Majoris]

Question: Should the price of anything enter into or be considered in the illegal immigration discussion?

[SEC=UGA]

Question: Should the price of anything enter into or be considered in the illegal immigration discussion?

 

No, price should not be discussed. When they are caught, each illegal should be assigned as an indentured servant to an American citizen.

[yo mama]

Question: Should the price of anything enter into or be considered in the illegal immigration discussion?

Yes: the price of one-way bus tickets to Mexico.

[bpwallace49]

Question: Should the price of anything enter into or be considered in the illegal immigration discussion?

 

When making any decision you should be aware of the consequences of your actions.

 

really tightening up illegal immigrations and immigrants will result in higher food prices. Good bad or indifferent, that is a direct consequence. Add in how some people in the political area want to eliminate farm subsidies, and you may have another price increase.

 

cause and effect.

 

IMO the decision shouldnt be solely based on prices, no more than Zeke's utility bill is solely based on Obama and the Legion of Doom conspiring against him. But people have to be aware of it to make an informed decision.

[Savage Beatings]

Question: Should the price of anything enter into or be considered in the illegal immigration discussion?

 

Probably not. I've seen arguments like this (the cost of agriculture would rise, etc.) balanced by arguments that consider the cost of education and healthcare that we are already spending on illegal immigrants. Both sides have a point but bottomline is, it is against the law. Either change the law, or enforce it IMO.

[Square]

Either change the law, or enforce it IMO.

It's so crazy it just might work. Too bad none of the puzzies in Washington will do either correctly.

[Azazello1313]

I will just say that I think basic economics points to several reasons why we should allow more LEGAL immigration.

[Yukon Cornelius]

I will just say that I think basic economics points to several reasons why we should allow more LEGAL immigration.

wurd

[Savage Beatings]

I will just say that I think basic economics points to several reasons why we should allow more LEGAL immigration.

 

 

I guess I'd want to know how many legal immigrants are allowed in each year, and what the reasoning is for the cap at the point it is at.

[SEC=UGA]

When making any decision you should be aware of the consequences of your actions.

 

really tightening up illegal immigrations and immigrants will result in higher food prices. Good bad or indifferent, that is a direct consequence. Add in how some people in the political area want to eliminate farm subsidies, and you may have another price increase.

 

cause and effect.

 

IMO the decision shouldnt be solely based on prices, no more than Zeke's utility bill is solely based on Obama and the Legion of Doom conspiring against him. But people have to be aware of it to make an informed decision.

 

Did anyone know this existed, H2A visa:

 

Employers anticipating a shortage of agricultural workers and in need must apply at least 45 days before certification is necessary. This includes a requirement of an active effort, including newspaper and radio advertising, to recruit U.S. workers in areas of expected labor supply. Such recruitment must be at least equivalent to that conducted by non-H-2A agricultural employers in the same or similar crops and area. The employer must agree to give preference and engage in active recruitment of U.S. workers. The H-2A certification is valid for up to 364 days. As temporary or seasonal agricultural employment, the work is performed during certain seasons of the year or for a limited time period of less than one year when the employer can show that the need for the foreign worker is truly temporary.[3]

 

Before the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) can approve an employer's petition for such workers, the employer must file an application with the U.S. Department of Labor stating that there are not sufficient workers who are able, willing, qualified, and available, and that the employment of aliens will not adversely affect the wages and working conditions of similarly employed U.S. workers. The statute and departmental regulations provide for numerous worker protections and employer requirements with respect to wages and working conditions that do not apply to nonagricultural programs. The Department's Employment and Training Administration (ETA) administers the labor certification program, while the Wage and Hour Division, Employment Standards Administration (ESA) has responsibility for enforcing provisions of worker contracts.[4][5]

 

In employing a worker, the employer must guarantee to offer each worker employment for at least three-fourths of the workdays in the term of the contract period. If the employer affords less employment, then the employer is obligated to pay the amount which they would have earned if they had worked the contracted period.

 

The wage or rate of pay must be the same for U.S. workers and H-2A workers. The hourly rate must also be at least as high as the applicable Adverse Effect Wage Rate (AEWR),[6] federal or state minimum wage, or the applicable prevailing hourly wage rate, whichever is higher. The AEWR is established every year by the Department of Labor for every state except Alaska.

 

If a worker will be paid on a piece rate basis, the worker must be paid the prevailing piece as determined by the State Workers Agency, or SWA. If the piece rate does not result in average hourly piece rate earnings during the pay period at least equal to the amount the worker would have earned had the worker been paid at the hourly rate, then the worker’s pay must be supplemented to the equivalent hourly level. The piece rate offered must be no less than what is prevailing in the area for the same crop and/or activity.[7]

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H-2A_Visa

[SayItAintSoJoe]

Did anyone know this existed, H2A visa:

 

Employers anticipating a shortage of agricultural workers and in need must apply at least 45 days before certification is necessary. This includes a requirement of an active effort, including newspaper and radio advertising, to recruit U.S. workers in areas of expected labor supply. Such recruitment must be at least equivalent to that conducted by non-H-2A agricultural employers in the same or similar crops and area. The employer must agree to give preference and engage in active recruitment of U.S. workers. The H-2A certification is valid for up to 364 days. As temporary or seasonal agricultural employment, the work is performed during certain seasons of the year or for a limited time period of less than one year when the employer can show that the need for the foreign worker is truly temporary.[3]

 

Before the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) can approve an employer's petition for such workers, the employer must file an application with the U.S. Department of Labor stating that there are not sufficient workers who are able, willing, qualified, and available, and that the employment of aliens will not adversely affect the wages and working conditions of similarly employed U.S. workers. The statute and departmental regulations provide for numerous worker protections and employer requirements with respect to wages and working conditions that do not apply to nonagricultural programs. The Department's Employment and Training Administration (ETA) administers the labor certification program, while the Wage and Hour Division, Employment Standards Administration (ESA) has responsibility for enforcing provisions of worker contracts.[4][5]

 

In employing a worker, the employer must guarantee to offer each worker employment for at least three-fourths of the workdays in the term of the contract period. If the employer affords less employment, then the employer is obligated to pay the amount which they would have earned if they had worked the contracted period.

 

The wage or rate of pay must be the same for U.S. workers and H-2A workers. The hourly rate must also be at least as high as the applicable Adverse Effect Wage Rate (AEWR),[6] federal or state minimum wage, or the applicable prevailing hourly wage rate, whichever is higher. The AEWR is established every year by the Department of Labor for every state except Alaska.

 

If a worker will be paid on a piece rate basis, the worker must be paid the prevailing piece as determined by the State Workers Agency, or SWA. If the piece rate does not result in average hourly piece rate earnings during the pay period at least equal to the amount the worker would have earned had the worker been paid at the hourly rate, then the worker’s pay must be supplemented to the equivalent hourly level. The piece rate offered must be no less than what is prevailing in the area for the same crop and/or activity.[7]

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H-2A_Visa

 

Yep.

 

This is one of those "can't win" situations for the government. If they don't have laws such as these in place then people will say that they are not protecting American jobs. If they do have laws such as these in place then they are placing a regulatory burden on businesses that makes it difficult for them to comply.

[Yukon Cornelius]

college educated want in

 

A new Brookings report finds that college-educated immigrants now outnumber those who enter the United States with just a high school degree. The disparity is especially striking in urban areas, with college-educated immigrants outnumbering their high-school-educated counterparts by 25 percent in 44 major U.S. cities. Overall, 30 percent of working-age immigrants have a college degree now, compared to just 19 percent in 1980. Only 28 percent of immigrants in the United States lack a high school diploma.

 

And the trend appears to have escalated. More college-educated immigrants came to the United States in the past 10 years than immigrants lacking a high school education, in part due to increased demand from U.S. employers. Half of all skilled immigrants are overqualified for their current jobs, the report finds. The Washington Post summarized the Brookings findings in a front-page report today, and found that some regional employers are increasingly favoring a foreign-born workforce.

 

Some employers may say they prefer immigrants to native-born workers. When Samir Kumar needs to hire employees for his Northern Virginia-based IT business, he often looks overseas. Not only do workers from India and Ukraine have the required training, but their expectations are lower, he said.

 

"They actually don't demand a very high amount of salary, and the expectations are kind of grounded and they don't jump around so much" between companies, said the 39-year-old Ashburn resident, an immigrant from India. U.S.-born technology and business analysts are hard to find and hard to retain, he said, while immigrants with the same skills and education "are much easier to manage."

[SayItAintSoJoe]

college educated want in

 

A new Brookings report finds that college-educated immigrants now outnumber those who enter the United States with just a high school degree. The disparity is especially striking in urban areas, with college-educated immigrants outnumbering their high-school-educated counterparts by 25 percent in 44 major U.S. cities. Overall, 30 percent of working-age immigrants have a college degree now, compared to just 19 percent in 1980. Only 28 percent of immigrants in the United States lack a high school diploma.

 

And the trend appears to have escalated. More college-educated immigrants came to the United States in the past 10 years than immigrants lacking a high school education, in part due to increased demand from U.S. employers. Half of all skilled immigrants are overqualified for their current jobs, the report finds. The Washington Post summarized the Brookings findings in a front-page report today, and found that some regional employers are increasingly favoring a foreign-born workforce.

 

Some employers may say they prefer immigrants to native-born workers. When Samir Kumar needs to hire employees for his Northern Virginia-based IT business, he often looks overseas. Not only do workers from India and Ukraine have the required training, but their expectations are lower, he said.

 

"They actually don't demand a very high amount of salary, and the expectations are kind of grounded and they don't jump around so much" between companies, said the 39-year-old Ashburn resident, an immigrant from India. U.S.-born technology and business analysts are hard to find and hard to retain, he said, while immigrants with the same skills and education "are much easier to manage."

 

I often wonder are all these foreign college degrees verified somehow or are they just being accepted at face value.

[Ursa Majoris]

I often wonder are all these foreign college degrees verified somehow or are they just being accepted at face value.

USCIS does verify them.

[SEC=UGA]

I often wonder are all these foreign college degrees verified somehow or are they just being accepted at face value.

 

Having gone to graduate school with a number of these foreign students/workers and also having traveled a bit and met a number of college educated foreign business people, I can, without any hesitation, assert that they are much brighter than most of their US counterparts.

 

I will have to admit that my experience has been limited to people from Indonesia, India, S. Korea, China, Japan, Turkey, Russia, Ukraine, Slovenia, Peru, Brazil and Argentina, but I am absolutely blown away at these persons mathematical and analytical skills.

[Square]

Meh, the foreign trained electrical engineers that I've dealt with are great with the calculator. Too bad they have terrible interpersonal skills (at least in America) and don't do well managing a project in a coherent fashion.

[Bronco Billy]

Okay, I'll play even though it's such a damned silly game.

 

So let's say a tomato farmer is paying illegals $4/hr. Without illegals he'll have to hire dometic unskilled labor at $8 to $10/hr plus pay the additonal premium for hiring his now legal help (taxes, etc). So let's say it comes out to a cost per laborer of $15/hr. And let's further say that a laborer can pick 4 tomotoes a minute (which I think is low, but I'll be conservative) That means the tomatoes I buy in the store will cost an additonal 6 cents each for the farmer to get exactly the same profit margin and for all other factors to remain equal in regard to tomato harvesting, transport, and sales. That's a 3% increase in cost for items that come from the farms - produce predominantly.

 

So, for an increase of 3% in the cost of my produce I will get a benefit of having less students in my kids' classes, for schools to not being forced to hire so many educational specialists to deal with the kids of illegals, and for health care costs to go down as hospitals and clinics don't have to charge insurance companies extra to cover the cost of having to treat illegals for free in their emergency rooms as the illegals' primary care provider. In addition, the cost of law enforcement will go down, as will the cost of incarcerating illegals, as they won't be here in such outrageous numbers to commit crimes that a portion of their population commits. I will also recognize a capital benefit in that a lot of illegals won't be here to commit identity theft and to glean dollars off the system in benefits like food stamps, etc.

 

As an added benefit, I won't have the annoyance of seeing commercials in Spanish, etc which doesn't carry a cost benefit but adds to the quality of my life as I don't get angry listening to it.

 

I can live with that trade off. Yep. Works for me.

Edited June 10, 2011 by Bronco Billy

[i_am_the_swammi]

Be nice if we could allow young adults (say 11-12 year old's) to do some of this labor. My son is dying to start earning, but there aren't enough lawn mowing or pet sitting gigs to go around.

 

It would be nice if he could legally work 3-4 hours on a Saturday or Sunday making $10/hour to do some pretty brainless work to help him start funding his college education and take some of the disposable income burden off me and his mother (which will only get worse when my three younger ones start demanding more allowance).

[SEC=UGA]

Be nice if we could allow young adults (say 11-12 year old's) to do some of this labor. My son is dying to start earning, but there aren't enough lawn mowing or pet sitting gigs to go around.

 

It would be nice if he could legally work 3-4 hours on a Saturday or Sunday making $10/hour to do some pretty brainless work to help him start funding his college education and take some of the disposable income burden off me and his mother (which will only get worse when my three younger ones start demanding more allowance).

 

It's already being done, just not by too many white kids.

[Yukon Cornelius]

It's already being done, just not by too many white kids.

nope they don't want to work. well at least most of them

[SEC=UGA]

Interesting idea...

 

The results of a state survey released Tuesday suggest what Georgia farmers have been saying for weeks: there is a labor shortage in the state’s $69 billion agricultural industry.

 

Georgia farmers who responded to the survey said they potentially need to fill as many as 11,080 jobs this year, some for one day and others for as long 12 months.

 

The state Agriculture Department’s survey, however, does not indicate what may be causing the shortage.

 

Gov. Nathan Deal asked for the survey last month after Georgia farmers complained the state’s tough new immigration enforcement law is scaring away the migrant Hispanic workers they depend on, potentially putting hundreds of millions of dollars in crops at risk.

 

“Responses suggest a degree of unmet labor needs this season,” Agricultural Commissioner Gary Black said in a letter he sent Deal about the survey results Friday.

 

Deal issued a statement Tuesday morning saying state officials are seeking to connect unemployed state probationers with farming jobs in Southwest Georgia. There are as many as 2,000 unemployed probationers in that region, Deal said.

 

“I believe this would be a great partial solution to our current status as we continue to move towards sustainable results with the legal options available,” Deal said.