James Harrison

[detlef]

So the hit on Cribbs last year that was one of his 5 devastating blows (finable) that lead him to this position in your opinion would not have been finable?

I'm not familiar with that hit. You were implying that there's never a difference between cases when two helmets collide and I was simply explaining that is not true at all.

 

ETA: Just saw it and now am completely convinced you're just making things up. I describe two guy in close quarters, both staying low right across from one another and how inevitable it is that helmets would collide. And you say that's the same thing as a guy coming up from the side and maybe just a bit behind another player and hitting him in the helmet.

Edited December 16, 2011 by detlef

[Dont Rookie Me........]

 

 

Here are all the illegal hits by Harrison fined by the NFL minus the McCoy hit

 

In my opinion the first three were suspect, but due to the changing NFL and Harrisons mouth they became more.

 

The fourth was bad and the fifth against Colt was bad too, but interpretation is where I have a problem.

 

Here is a hit from Gocong the guy that hit Mendenahll from 2008 that was not fined.

 

It is a matter of perspective, either helmet to helmet is illegal or not.

 

 

[Hugh 0ne]

 

Here are all the illegal hits by Harrison fined by the NFL minus the McCoy hit

 

In my opinion the first three were suspect, but due to the changing NFL and Harrisons mouth they became more.

 

The fourth was bad and the fifth against Colt was bad too, but interpretation is where I have a problem.

 

Here is a hit from Gocong the guy that hit Mendenahll from 2008 that was not fined.

 

It is a matter of perspective, either helmet to helmet is illegal or not.

 

 

 

Dude, you need to re-evaluate. You're comparing a slight btushing of helmets in the Gocong hit to a guy clearly driving his helmet into other player's helmets. In football, helmets are going to hit each other, you can't eliminate that, but what Harrison does is clearly lead with his helmet in open space at another players helmet.

[Dont Rookie Me........]

slight btushing...really...come on...he jumped up to dislodged the guy from the ball (2008 play, I could not find the great play by Gocong in 2011). In my opinion a good play. It was helmet to helmet...this is what I am talking about...who decides what? Both were helmet to helmet...maybe Im wrong, maybe Im a homer, but realistically I am asking where is the line drawn.

 

Helmet to helmet is illegal just make it so for everyone if you hold one person accountable. How can you say one helmet to helmet is brushing and another not...you hit the helmet you are fined period.

Edited December 16, 2011 by Dont Rookie Me........

[detlef]

slight btushing...really...come on...he jumped up to dislodged the guy from the ball (2008 play, I could not find the great play by Gocong in 2011). In my opinion a good play. It was helmet to helmet...this is what I am talking about...who decides what? Both were helmet to helmet...maybe Im wrong, maybe Im a homer, but realistically I am asking where is the line drawn.

 

Helmet to helmet is illegal just make it so for everyone if you hold one person accountable. How can you say one helmet to helmet is brushing and another not...you hit the helmet you are fined period.

One of the great things about being a human is the ability to see gradations in things. Because of that, we don't have to always deal in absolutes and thus our lives are better.

 

In other words, the game would suffer if, every time two helmets hit one another, a flag was thrown. However, it would also be bad if, allowing said contact meant that anything goes. So, we have rational humans look at film and determine whether a play seemed reckless or simply "part of the game".

 

It's really that simple.

[G.K.Trey]

 

Here are all the illegal hits by Harrison fined by the NFL minus the McCoy hit

 

In my opinion the first three were suspect, but due to the changing NFL and Harrisons mouth they became more.

 

The fourth was bad and the fifth against Colt was bad too, but interpretation is where I have a problem.

 

Here is a hit from Gocong the guy that hit Mendenahll from 2008 that was not fined.

 

It is a matter of perspective, either helmet to helmet is illegal or not.

 

 

 

 

I think those videos show the exact point people are making about Harrison. If you look at him , each time he is about to hit someone he is looking right at them but then lowers his head and projects his helmet forward. If he would just keep looking up at what he hits and drives thru the man , 3 of those would not even have gotten a flag much less a fine or suspension

[Bronco Billy]

slight btushing...really...come on...he jumped up to dislodged the guy from the ball (2008 play, I could not find the great play by Gocong in 2011). In my opinion a good play. It was helmet to helmet...this is what I am talking about...who decides what? Both were helmet to helmet...maybe Im wrong, maybe Im a homer, but realistically I am asking where is the line drawn.

 

Helmet to helmet is illegal just make it so for everyone if you hold one person accountable. How can you say one helmet to helmet is brushing and another not...you hit the helmet you are fined period.

 

Jesus H Christ.

 

Gocong lead with his facemask, and was in the process of tackling a runner.

 

Helmet to helmet contact is legal when a player is a runner whose progress is not stopped, and the contact is initiated with the facemask leading. Helmet to helmet contact is not legal when tackling a passer or when a player is in a defenseless position; or when the contact is initiated withe the crown of the helmet.

 

Here's the RULE. F'n read it and educate yourself, please.

 

Rule 12, Section 2, Article 8

Impermissable Use of Helmet and Facemask

 

(f) If a player uses any part of his helmet (including the top/crown and forehead/”hairline” parts) or facemask to butt, spear, or ram an opponent violently or unnecessarily. Although such violent or unnecessary use of the helmet and facemask is impermissible against any opponent, game officials will give special attention in administering this rule to protecting those players who are in virtually defenseless postures, including but not limited to:

 

(1) Forcibly hitting the defenseless player’s head, neck, or face with the helmet or facemask, regardless of whether the defensive player also uses his arms to tackle the defenseless player by encircling or grasping him; or

 

(2) Lowering the head and violently or unnecessarily making forcible contact with the “hairline” or forehead part of the helmet against any part of the defenseless player’s body; or

 

(3) “Launching” (springing forward and upward) into a defenseless player, or otherwise striking him in a way that causes the defensive player’s helmet or facemask to forcibly strike the defenseless player’s head, neck, or face—even if the initial contact of the defender’s helmet or facemask is lower than the defenseless player’s neck. (Examples: a defender buries his facemask into a defenseless player’s high chest area, but the defender’s trajectory as he leaps into the defenseless player causes the defender’s helmet to strike the defenseless player violently in the head or face; or a defender, using a face-on posture or with his head slightly lowered, hits a defenseless player in an area below the defenseless player’s neck, then the defender’s head moves upward, resulting in strong contact by the defender’s mask or helmet with the defenseless player’s head, neck, or face [an example is the so-called “dip and rip” technique]).

 

Note: The provisions of section (f) do not prohibit incidental contact by the mask or noncrown parts of the helmet in the course of a conventional tackle on an opponent.

 

(g) if the initial force of the contact by a defender’s helmet (including facemask), forearm, or shoulder is to the head or neck area of a defenseless player.

 

Note: Defenseless players in (f) and (g) shall include (i) a player in the act of or just after throwing a pass; (ii) a receiver catching or attempting to catch a pass; (iii) a runner already in the grasp of a tackler and whose forward progress has been stopped; (iv) a kickoff or punt returner attempting to field a kick in the air; and (v) a player on the ground at the end of a play.

 

(h) If a receiver has completed a catch and has not had time to protect himself, a defensive player is prohibited from launching (springing forward and upward) into him in a way that causes the defensive player’s helmet, facemask, shoulder, or forearm to forcibly strike the receiver’s head or neck area—even if the initial contact of the defender’s helmet, facemask, shoulder, or forearm is lower than the receiver’s neck.

 

Does that help you at all, or do you need this explained further?

Edited December 16, 2011 by Bronco Billy

[stevegrab]

 

Here are all the illegal hits by Harrison fined by the NFL minus the McCoy hit

 

In my opinion the first three were suspect, but due to the changing NFL and Harrisons mouth they became more.

 

The fourth was bad and the fifth against Colt was bad too, but interpretation is where I have a problem.

 

Here is a hit from Gocong the guy that hit Mendenahll from 2008 that was not fined.

 

It is a matter of perspective, either helmet to helmet is illegal or not.

 

 

 

 

Earlier when you asked about the Gocong hit on Mendenhall I assumed (and probably aksed for clarification) you were talking about a hit in the recnet CLE-PIT game. Now I see you are talking about a hit from 3 years ago, and trying to say "well if that was legal and not fined why is Harrison being punished." I didn't look at it, but will take the word of others here who have and see it is very different from what Harrison has repeatedly done.

 

You need to read some of what Menudo says, because even though he is a big homer I think he clearly recognizes that Harrison has put himself in this position, through his actions on the field and his mouth off the field.

 

I ask the PIT fans, is there nobody on this team that can straighten the guy out? His actions are hurting them (suspended games), why doesn't somebody stand up to him and say "dude if you cannot stop hitting like you're trying to kill people, at least shut up afterward and don't bring more attention to it." Seirously, Ray Lewis would probably kick his ass and send him home crying (I'm no Ravens fan either if it isn't obvious). We don't see Ray, or Suggs, Reed or Ngata doing this Athena.

 

BB great citing of the rules and those specific to this situation.

[stevegrab]

just saw this on CBS pre-game show

 

a tweet from Harrison after the appeal was denied (@jharrison9292)

 

"17 games, 1000+ snaps, 100+ tackles, 12+ sacks, and 2 force fumbles since my last incident and I get a suspension for a football play!"

 

Dude just doesn't get it, it was an illegal hit. He has intent to do harm to a player, lowering the helmet to into the other players head when he could have tacked him any number of ways. (And there was no need to tackle him since he had already let go of the ball, he should be trying to let up instead of looking to blast the guy.)

 

Next time he does something like this should be 4 game suspension. What an idiot. I'm sure some Steeler fans (coaches and players too) will defend him though.

 

After showing that tweet Cowher and Boomer explain how to tackle properly. "Head up" "QB stay away from his head, its very simple" "Use a body tackle on defenseless receivers" "I never taught body tackling in my life before, this is unconventional, but coaches have to do this"