Plumbing Help

[SteelBunz]

I wish I had seen this last night.... The diverter is currently off after much effort. And the way the I mangled the head of it to get it off, I'll need a new one regardless.

 

Regarding the valve (I am at work and can't see it right now) I believe it is welded onto the pipes. Will I need to cut it off? If so, I'm out of my league and will need to call a pro. However, I believe there were some screws on the front of it. If I just need to remove the screws to clean it out, I can probably handle.

Nooooooo......lol. I'm just asking you to remove screws and unscrew/pull all the 'innards' out from the valve (that is soldered to the pipes). The real trick to this is keeping all parts set aside in the order they came out! lol If you can read the model of the faucet assembly, you can find a manual for it that will show it to you "exploded" and label all the part numbers. Easier to know what you'll need to replace.

 

It will also tell you what valve you have. Some of those parts will be integral to the faucet assembly, some to the valve.

 

Sounds like you'll be able to find some crud right away though. Be careful with any rubber O-rings....warm soap and water, maybe a soft toothbrush.

 

The two screws on the escutcheon plate hold the plate onto the valve. They are very long. If you have an older setup, there should be a screw under a cap on the handle. Take your time....use towels to shield the finish from any tool scratches. (Too late for that diverter).

 

Call me if you need to GTB.

Edited January 26, 2012 by SteelBunz

[geeteebee]

Nooooooo......lol. I'm just asking you to remove screws and unscrew/pull all the 'innards' out from the valve (that is soldered to the pipes). The real trick to this is keeping all parts set aside in the order they came out! lol If you can read the model of the faucet assembly, you can find a manual for it that will show it to you "exploded" and label all the part numbers. Easier to know what you'll need to replace.

 

It will also tell you what valve you have. Some of those parts will be integral to the faucet assembly, some to the valve.

 

Sounds like you'll be able to find some crud right away though. Be careful with any rubber O-rings....warm soap and water, maybe a soft toothbrush.

 

The two screws on the escutcheon plate hold the plate onto the valve. They are very long. If you have an older setup, there should be a screw under a cap on the handle. Take your time....use towels to shield the finish from any tool scratches. (Too late for that diverter).

 

Call me if you need to GTB.

 

 

Thank you so much for all the guidance. I'll work on cleaning out the valve tonight. This is the valve I have. The diverter looks to be part of the entire setup which may explain why it was so difficult to remove. Do you have any idea if the diverter will be easy to find? I've emailed the manufacturer but haven't heard back.

[Footballjoe]

Thank you so much for all the guidance. I'll work on cleaning out the valve tonight. This is the valve I have. The diverter looks to be part of the entire setup which may explain why it was so difficult to remove. Do you have any idea if the diverter will be easy to find? I've emailed the manufacturer but haven't heard back.

 

 

One thing you might try if its not to late is adjusting the shut off valves on the left and right of the main valve. Use a screwdriver to adjust them to see if it helps with the pressure.

[geeteebee]

One thing you might try if its not to late is adjusting the shut off valves on the left and right of the main valve. Use a screwdriver to adjust them to see if it helps with the pressure.

 

 

I'll give that a try...This comment brings up another question. I was planning on having to turn off the main water line to the house because I didn't know how else to ensure water wouldn't come out when I took the valve apart. Will these screws do the trick instead?

[The Irish Doggy]

I'll give that a try...This comment brings up another question. I was planning on having to turn off the main water line to the house because I didn't know how else to ensure water wouldn't come out when I took the valve apart. Will these screws do the trick instead?

 

Hopefully you have an accessible shut off for the shower or bathroom somewhere. Mine is behind a panel in a closet next to the shower for example.

[geeteebee]

Hopefully you have an accessible shut off for the shower or bathroom somewhere. Mine is behind a panel in a closet next to the shower for example.

 

I don't have anything like that. The only shutoffs I have are under the sink and behind the toilet. The bedroom and closet that adjoin the bathroom don't have any panels.

[The Irish Doggy]

I don't have anything like that. The only shutoffs I have are under the sink and behind the toilet. The bedroom and closet that adjoin the bathroom don't have any panels.

 

No manifold in the basement that takes the supply from the street and splits it up to separate supply lines (with shut offs) going upstairs either? If not, yeah, AFIK the whole house shut off is your best bet.

Edited January 26, 2012 by The Irish Doggy

[geeteebee]

No manifold in the basement that takes the supply from the street and splits it up to separate supply lines (with shut offs) going upstairs either? If not, yeah, AFIK the whole house shut off is your best bet.

 

No basements in Texas. I have a handle in the garage that will turn off everything. That is why I was interested to know if those two screws on the side of the shower valve would turn off the water to the shower.

[SteelBunz]

No basements in Texas. I have a handle in the garage that will turn off everything. That is why I was interested to know if those two screws on the side of the shower valve would turn off the water to the shower.

Those two screws on the valve are called stops. The valve can come with stops or without. And yes, those are technically 'shutoffs' at the valve. But FBJ is right...that is part of what you will be testing. The hot on the left could be turned down, almost off. Although if you've used this shower at all without problem in the last year, that would be very mysterious....lol. According to the PDF2 schematic of the valve you posted, screw slot aligned with the inlet (horizontal) is open, perpendicular (vertical) is closed.

 

You can test that with the water on IF you leave the center stem assembly ON with those 4 screws around the "temptress" plate. If the hot is fully on and you still have the problem, then turn off the whole house shutoff. Open the lowest faucet in the house and let the water drain out of the house pipes. Then work on your stem assembly.

 

If you are sure the stops are not 'suspect' or the culprit of your problem, yes you can turn them to off and work on your valve instead of shutting off at your garage.

 

You can also see the diverter is one piece too. They haven't labeled that valve 'obsolete' so you should be able to get any part you might need.

 

And think about having some shutoffs cut in at various places in the house to at least be able to shut off zones of water, instead of the whole house every time you work on something.

Edited January 26, 2012 by SteelBunz

[geeteebee]

Project is complete. Here are a few helpful tidbits for those of you who run into this issue in the future.

 

1. None of the guys on this site know anything.

2. Listen to Bunz, she knows all.

3. When removing pieces of plumbing, it is wise to shut off the water beforehand.

4. If 3. above is ignored, it is wise to have towels handy.

5. If 3. and 4. above are ignored, it is wise to have a change of clothes handy.

6. The hot water that comes straight out of the pipe doesn’t start out hot, but gets very hot very quickly.

7. When removing screws from a valve that is recessed in the wall, you should stuff a towel or something in the hole so when one of said screws falls it doesn’t disappear.

8. If 7. above is ignored, magnets on a long string are about the only way to retrieve said screws. However, said string must be strong enough to dislodge the magnet when it gets stuck on the brackets holding the copper pipe. If it isn’t, you will need a larger magnet on a heavier string to recoup the previously used magnet along with the screw.

9. One of those dentist mirrors is a great tool when trying to fish for a screw that has fallen down a hole that you can’t look directly into.

10. After learning your lesson and using a towel to fill the hole in the wall prior to removing the screws for the second time, it is wise to close the drain prior to removing the screws.

11. Screws that fall in the drain cannot be retrieved with a magnet and are lost forever.

12. Removing a diverter requires significant leverage and very little room to work, DO NOT use a hammer to hit the wrench or else you may strip the head of the diverter when the wrench repeatedly slips.

13. When you take the previously fine, now damaged, diverter to the plumbing supply store and explain the problem, believe them when they tell you it doesn’t sound like it is the diverter and is most likely the cartridge in the valve.

14. Buy the cartridge instead of thinking you’ll take your chances with the diverter because you can just run back to the plumbing supply store tomorrow (Saturday) if the new diverter doesn’t solve the problem.

15. Call the plumbing supply store prior to going there on a Saturday because apparently plumbing supplies aren’t needed on Saturdays.

16. When installing a new valve cylinder, make sure you read the directions. If you don’t, you will get running water when there shouldn’t be any and hot water when it should be cold.

17. Make sure you turn the water back on prior to replacing the cover plate and recaulking around it.

 

I don’t know how much more could have gone wrong, but at least it is fixed. Bunz was right that the cartridge in the valve was the culprit and this model can’t be cleaned out so I needed a new one. Hopefully if I have this problem again, it won’t take so long to fix. By the way, plumbing work is a great way to spend time with your kids. My 4 year old wouldn't leave my side and enjoyed handing me my tools. He got a kick out of the colorful words his daddy used and even said when he grows up he wants to be a shower fixer guy.

[Footballjoe]

Project is complete. Here are a few helpful tidbits for those of you who run into this issue in the future.

 

1. None of the guys on this site know anything.

2. Listen to Bunz, she knows all.

3. When removing pieces of plumbing, it is wise to shut off the water beforehand.

4. If 3. above is ignored, it is wise to have towels handy.

5. If 3. and 4. above are ignored, it is wise to have a change of clothes handy.

6. The hot water that comes straight out of the pipe doesn’t start out hot, but gets very hot very quickly.

7. When removing screws from a valve that is recessed in the wall, you should stuff a towel or something in the hole so when one of said screws falls it doesn’t disappear.

8. If 7. above is ignored, magnets on a long string are about the only way to retrieve said screws. However, said string must be strong enough to dislodge the magnet when it gets stuck on the brackets holding the copper pipe. If it isn’t, you will need a larger magnet on a heavier string to recoup the previously used magnet along with the screw.

9. One of those dentist mirrors is a great tool when trying to fish for a screw that has fallen down a hole that you can’t look directly into.

10. After learning your lesson and using a towel to fill the hole in the wall prior to removing the screws for the second time, it is wise to close the drain prior to removing the screws.

11. Screws that fall in the drain cannot be retrieved with a magnet and are lost forever.

12. Removing a diverter requires significant leverage and very little room to work, DO NOT use a hammer to hit the wrench or else you may strip the head of the diverter when the wrench repeatedly slips.

13. When you take the previously fine, now damaged, diverter to the plumbing supply store and explain the problem, believe them when they tell you it doesn’t sound like it is the diverter and is most likely the cartridge in the valve.

14. Buy the cartridge instead of thinking you’ll take your chances with the diverter because you can just run back to the plumbing supply store tomorrow (Saturday) if the new diverter doesn’t solve the problem.

15. Call the plumbing supply store prior to going there on a Saturday because apparently plumbing supplies aren’t needed on Saturdays.

16. When installing a new valve cylinder, make sure you read the directions. If you don’t, you will get running water when there shouldn’t be any and hot water when it should be cold.

17. Make sure you turn the water back on prior to replacing the cover plate and recaulking around it.

 

I don’t know how much more could have gone wrong, but at least it is fixed. Bunz was right that the cartridge in the valve was the culprit and this model can’t be cleaned out so I needed a new one. Hopefully if I have this problem again, it won’t take so long to fix. By the way, plumbing work is a great way to spend time with your kids. My 4 year old wouldn't leave my side and enjoyed handing me my tools. He got a kick out of the colorful words his daddy used and even said when he grows up he wants to be a shower fixer guy.

 

 

Next time you do a plumbing job your hudle breathen request it be video taped.

 

BTW. I have replaced numerous cartridges and some of them can be a bear.

[SteelBunz]

A shower fixer guy....priceless. I actually had two little girls as "clients" last summer. Daughters of a client and they wanted a parachute swing installed in their bedroom. So curious and watching intently....fascinated with tools and how to do things. Gotta love kids!

 

Nice job, GTB!! Believe it or not...I can think of a few worse things that could have gone wrong. You weren't even close to disaster.

 

Sorry about not reminding you about losing stuff down the drain. I forget it isn't second nature to anyone who doesn't do this every day. I kept hearing the "procedure" monologue from My Cousin Vinny during your story.......LOL.

 

On the plus side...you probably saved yourself a good 3-400 bucks. Feels good, eh?

Edited February 1, 2012 by SteelBunz