trrhyne Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 With the new contract for Harrison and if they put the franchise tag on Edge, what are the Colts plans on improving to make that next step. It seems like they are very close, but they will need something to put them over the top. Does anyone have insight or opinions on what the Colts may do this offseason espcially if they eat up a lot of cap room with Harrison and Edge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 They will probably hype up their defense again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 There isn't much speculation at this point outside of franchise-tagging Edge. I haven't looked at the numbers, but I don't see why that wouldn't be possible. People like to talk about the Colts player salaries taking up too much cap room, yet they forget that the Vikes have $200 million invested in Culpepper and Moss and are way UNDER the cap. They really could use a veteran CB and tagging/trading Edge and a draft pick to Miami for Surtain and one of their backup RBs would be a possiblity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted February 3, 2005 Share Posted February 3, 2005 I heard on ESPN that Pay-a-ton said he would cut back on his contract to keep Edge. What a class act. There is no one in the game less selfish than Pay-a-ton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finger Posted February 3, 2005 Share Posted February 3, 2005 what are the Colts plans on improving to make that next step. 681609[/snapback] Hope the NFL moves them to the NFC so they at least have a shot at getting to the Bowl! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted February 4, 2005 Share Posted February 4, 2005 Hope the NFL moves them to the NFC so they at least have a shot at getting to the Bowl! 683131[/snapback] Boomer said on PTI, that when he said Peyton was the next Marino, what he ment was: the best player in the game at the time cannot win without a team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Vatican Hitsquad Posted February 4, 2005 Share Posted February 4, 2005 Boomer said on PTI, that when he said Peyton was the next Marino, what he ment was: the best player in the game at the time cannot win without a team. 684442[/snapback] Yeah, and as we all know Boomer is the absolute authority on QBs who lost their only Super Bowl appearance. Manning is one of the best to ever play and his contract is lower than Vicks, so they certainly have room to improve in this age of "signing bonus". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NAUgrad Posted February 4, 2005 Share Posted February 4, 2005 I heard on ESPN that Pay-a-ton said he would cut back on his contract to keep Edge. What a class act. There is no one in the game less selfish than Pay-a-ton. 683080[/snapback] About time. He's been taking up a to of cap space for years. Why all of a sudden the change? Elway used to do this big time the 5 or so years of his carrer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phenom Posted February 4, 2005 Share Posted February 4, 2005 Yeah, and as we all know Boomer is the absolute authority on QBs who lost their only Super Bowl appearance. Manning is one of the best to ever play and his contract is lower than Vicks, so they certainly have room to improve in this age of "signing bonus". 684693[/snapback] Why would you compare Manning to Vick? First off the amount of Vick's contract is more but annually Manning is getting paid more. Vick is getting 130 million over 10 years. Peyton is getting 98 mill over 7. So Manning is getting 14 million a year to Vicks 13 million. Also the Falcons aren't trying to tie up a lot of money in just a few players. Marvin Harrison signed a contract of 67 mill for 7 years and 23 mill in gurantees Brandon Stokley's's new contract of 17 mill over 5 years and a 5 mill signing bonus http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/colts/home.htm —The Colts head into the off-season with 11 potential unrestricted free agents: RB Edgerrin James, LB Rob Morris, OT Ryan Diem, OG Rick DeMulling, FS Idrees Bashir, RB Dominic Rhodes, CB Nick Harper, WR Troy Walters, SS Cory Bird, PK Martin Gramatica, and LB Jim Nelson. —Indianapolis also has six possible restricted free agents to deal with over the next month or so: LB David Thornton, LB Gary Brackett, DE Raheem Brock, CB Joseph Jefferson, RB James Mungro, and OG/C Tupe Peko. —Potential existing contracts that could be restructured to fit better under a 2005 salary cap situation include OT Tarik Glenn ($3.1M, 2004, $6.1M 2005), TE Marcus Pollard ($3.1M, 2004; $4.8M, 2005), C Jeff Saturday ($1.6M, 2004; $3.7M, 2005), DT Montae Reagor ($1.2M, 2004; $3.5M, 2005), DE Brad Scioli ($861K, 2004; $3.5M, 2005), DT Josh Williams ($1.1M, 2004; $3.2M, 2005), and PK Mike Vanderjagt ($1.6M, 2004; $2.9M, 2005). "We'd like to get everyone resigned. It's not an easy procedure, but hopefully we can get as many guys back as possible and figure out where we go from there," coach Tony Dungy said. — Dungy expects continued improvement from the defense heading into the 2005 season. "We've got a lot of young guys playing and part of that will be the natural progression of them growing up," he said. "It can come from guys playing more and understanding what the NFL is all about." — TE Marcus Pollard on his future with the team: "Whatever happens, happens. I've got no control over what they (the Colts) decide. There's no question I'd like to stay. But the situation has to be right." — PK Mike Vanderjagt on what might happen concerning his contract in the offseason: "At times I think, 'What have I possibly done in the last seven years to make them say they are better off without me?' Clearly, they wouldn't be. Marcus (Pollard) is probably in the same situation. There are guys that probably should never get released, they should finish their career as a Colt, and I'm probably one of them. But, honestly, I have no idea what to expect. I'm willing to work something out to stay. It would be something we would have to discuss. But here in Indianapolis, you have a great team and a great owner and a great stadium and great fans. There's nothing negative you can say about my situation here." —Dungy says that he doesn't expect any changes to his coaching staff this year. While admitting that having a successful season will draw attention to his coaches, he said that he didn't know of any teams contacting the Colts for permission to contact anyone on his staff. —The Colts have a 3-5 postseason record over the past six seasons. In those eight games, Indianapolis has been outrushed by an average of 191.4 yards (4.9 yards per carry) to 74.6 yards (3.7 yards per carry). —Of the 10 NFL teams to score 500 points in a season, the Colts are the first to not score a touchdown in a playoff game. The three points scored in the AFC divisional loss to New England was the team's lowest for a postseason game since a 41-0 loss to the New York Jets in a 2002 wild-card contest. —Indianapolis has won 27 games over the past two seasons, breaking the franchise record of 26 (11-1-2, 1967; 15-2, 1968). QUOTE TO NOTE: "I don't know what's going to happen. I don't want to comment on that. Everything will take care of itself." — Colts RB Edgerrin James, an unrestricted free agent heading into the offseason, on what he expects to transpire concerning a contract extension. So the Colts have to deal with their starting and backup RB's, 1/3of their O-line and some key members in their secondary. THEN they have jumps in salary from the other 2/3rds of their O-line and most of their D-line. Plus they are probably going to let Vanderjagt which I think is a mistake because you never worry about a poor FG kicker until you have. When you start losing some close games because your kicker sucks.....well it's just not good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted February 4, 2005 Share Posted February 4, 2005 (edited) LOL. I don't think it's as dire as phenom thinks. Every team has players whose contracts are escalating next year. The secondary is actually probably in better shape than it has been in a long time. Bashir has been a huge disappointment as a second round pick. The guy never makes plays. I'm not sad about losing him. Plus Doss and Sanders are both under contract for next year. CB Joseph Jefferson looks promising, but injuries have plagued him. The Colts can bring him back for another year, since he is a RFA. The other corners are rookie Jason David, who was a starter and had 4 INT's this year, and Donald Strickland, who looked pretty good until landing on IR with shoulder surgery. CB Nick Harper probably won't be back either. I expect the Colts to draft a couple corners in the draft. Losing third string SS Cory Bird is not going to matter. Linebacker is a different story. A lot of young guys. MLB Rob Morris is a goner. He won't be missed. I bet the Colts sign David Thornton for at least one more year, since he is a RFA. Gilbert Gardner, Cato June, and Kendyll Pope are all still signed. I also expect the Colts to draft a linebacker or two. Defensive line is in good shape. Almost all except Raheem Brock are signed, and he is an RFA. I think Brad Scioli will be cut. The one area I don't worry about is O-line. Howard Mudd is one of the best line coaches in the league. The Colts draft at least one lineman a year, and groom them. RT Diem filled in when Adam Meadows left, and I think the Colts feel rook Jake Scott can replace Diem if they can't get him signed. LT Glenn and C Saturday are the heart of the o-line, and they are under contract. I would love to see the Colts get either G DeMulling or Diem signed, but every year they find someone to replace guys they lose, and they never miss a beat. I think they will re-sign one of the two, but probably not both. WR they are set. Harrison, Wayne, Stokley, Moorehead, Pyatt. Losing Walters won't matter. TE will be interesting. Marcus will probably have to restructure, or he will be cut. The Colts drafted TE Ben Hartsock last year in the third round, and everyone kind of assumed he would replace Pollard. But Marcus has made some comments about being willing to re-do his deal to stay, if that is what the Colts want. We will see. QB Set with Manning. Sorgi will be the back-up. RB Will Edge be back? Irsay says yes. I find it very doubtful that the Colts would not at least Franchise Tag him. I don't see them allowing him to walk away for nothing. It is too early to say if the Colts can get either Rhodes or Mungro back. It depends on the market for FA running backs this year. I guarantee a lot of the guys in phenom's list restructure their contracts to help the Colts make even more room. They've done it every year. I actually think the Colts are in very good shape with their cap this year. They've given themselves a lot of options. Keep James and draft defense again? Trade James and draft a RB and defense? It'll be an interesting off season, but the Colts will be fine next year. As for the Kicker, I'm really not sure what will happen yet. Vanderjagt complains all the time about the Colts bringing in kick-off specialists. But it's because he SUCKS at kicking off! Vandy will have to restructure, I bet. phenom, you didn't mention that Vick actually got more bonus money than Manning. That bonus cannot be spread over 10 years. I think it's actually only allowed to be spread over as long as the CBA is in effect. Manning, Harrison, and Stokley's contracts are actually quite cap friendly for the next couple years. After that the Colts will have to be even more creative. Edited February 4, 2005 by CaptainHook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted February 4, 2005 Share Posted February 4, 2005 About time. He's been taking up a to of cap space for years. Why all of a sudden the change? Elway used to do this big time the 5 or so years of his carrer. 684702[/snapback] Manning's cap figure dropped by almost $5 million this season. But, hey, why let the facts get in the way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phenom Posted February 4, 2005 Share Posted February 4, 2005 The secondary is actually probably in better shape than it has been in a long time. Bashir has been a huge disappointment as a second round pick. The guy never makes plays. I'm not sad about losing him. CB Joseph Jefferson looks promising, but injuries have plagued him. and Donald Strickland, who looked pretty good until landing on IR with shoulder surgery. CB Nick Harper probably won't be back either. I expect the Colts to draft a couple corners in the draft. Losing third string SS Cory Bird is not going to matter. Linebacker is a different story. A lot of young guys. MLB Rob Morris is a goner. He won't be missed. I also expect the Colts to draft a linebacker or two. The one area I don't worry about is O-line. Howard Mudd is one of the best line coaches in the league. The Colts draft at least one lineman a year, and groom them. TE will be interesting. Marcus will probably have to restructure, or he will be cut. As for the Kicker, I'm really not sure what will happen yet. Vanderjagt complains all the time about the Colts bringing in kick-off specialists. But it's because he SUCKS at kicking off! Vandy will have to restructure, I bet. phenom, you didn't mention that Vick actually got more bonus money than Manning. That bonus cannot be spread over 10 years. I think it's actually only allowed to be spread over as long as the CBA is in effect. Manning, Harrison, and Stokley's contracts are actually quite cap friendly for the next couple years. After that the Colts will have to be even more creative. 684894[/snapback] That's a lot of guys who have failed to live up to expectations or are hurt a lot or will have to restructure contracts. Those under contract already are adding about 16 million to the 2005 salary cap. Also I didn't think it was a big deal about the difference in the bonus money between Vick and Manning. Vick got 37 and Manning got 34.5. A team pays a player the whole bonus immediately but they can spread out the bonus over the life of the contract. So Manning is 34.5 over 7 and Vick is 37 over 10. So Manning's bonus is counting for almost 5 mill a year and Vick's is going to average 3.7 over the life of his contract. http://www.nj.com/sports/ledger/index.ssf?...67043318950.xml How can a team like the Redskins, with an NFL record payroll of $110 million, still be considered under the cap? The money a team pays in a given year might exceed the cap figure. Let's say the Giants sign Tiki Barber to a five-year contract with a $15 million signing bonus. They pay that entire bonus immediately, but it counts only $3 million against the cap each year. If a player is waived before his contract is up, does that signing bonus still count against the salary cap? It does -- in one lump sum, the year after the player is released. It's called "dead money," and it keeps teams from abusing the system. The Giants got in trouble with this when they waived Jason Sehorn in March 2003 and had to count nearly $8 million in dead money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted February 4, 2005 Share Posted February 4, 2005 That's a lot of guys who have failed to live up to expectations or are hurt a lot or will have to restructure contracts. Those under contract already are adding about 16 million to the 2005 salary cap.685007[/snapback] I mentioned two guys who failed to live up to expectations. Idrees Bashir and Rob Morris. The restructuring part happens on every team every year. There is no question the Colts are capitalizing on their "window of opportunity" now, though. Also I didn't think it was a big deal about the difference in the bonus money between Vick and Manning. Vick got 37 and Manning got 34.5. A team pays a player the whole bonus immediately but they can spread out the bonus over the life of the contract. So Manning is 34.5 over 7 and Vick is 37 over 10. So Manning's bonus is counting for almost 5 mill a year and Vick's is going to average 3.7 over the life of his contract. 685007[/snapback] Actually, that is not necessarily true. Guaranteed money is not delivered in one lump sum. The signing bonus is. Manning did NOT receive $34.5 million signing bonus, but has money "guaranteed" to him at the beginning of certain years as a "roster" bonus. He has not yet received all of his guaranteed money, nor has Harrison who is due a very large roster bonus after NEXT year. . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted February 4, 2005 Share Posted February 4, 2005 (edited) A team pays a player the whole bonus immediately but they can spread out the bonus over the life of the contract. So Manning is 34.5 over 7 and Vick is 37 over 10. So Manning's bonus is counting for almost 5 mill a year and Vick's is going to average 3.7 over the life of his contract. 685007[/snapback] This is NOT true. You cannot spread the money over the entire contract. I know for a fact it used to be capped at spreading the money over 6 years. As of now, though, I believe it can only be spread out as far as there is a collective bargaining agreement. If I remember correctly, it is only 4 years currently. . . Edited February 4, 2005 by CaptainHook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phenom Posted February 4, 2005 Share Posted February 4, 2005 This is NOT true. You cannot spread the money over the entire contract. It used to be capped at spreading the money over 6 years. As of now, though, I believe it can only be spread out as far as there is a collective bargaining agreement. If I remember correctly, it is only 4 years currently. . . 685264[/snapback] So is that helping your argument somehow?........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted February 4, 2005 Share Posted February 4, 2005 So is that helping your argument somehow?........... 685268[/snapback] I'm sorry, what argument are you talking about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phenom Posted February 4, 2005 Share Posted February 4, 2005 I'm sorry, what argument are you talking about? 685272[/snapback] That Vick is somehow counting more against the cap than Manning......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted February 4, 2005 Share Posted February 4, 2005 (edited) If you want to turn it into an "argument" I guess I would say that Vick's per year bonus hit on the cap is higher than Mannings. Right? 34/5= $6.8 million/year for Manning 37.5/5= $7.5 million/year for Vick So your argument is out the window, eh? You don't get to spread the bonus over the entire contract. Only a fixed number of years set out by the Collective Bargaining Agreement. I used 5 years in the above example, but cannot recall the limit right now off the top of my head. Regardless of whatever the limit is, $37.5 million is MORE than $34 million, thus Vick actually DOES cost more than Manning. Any questions? Edited February 4, 2005 by CaptainHook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phenom Posted February 4, 2005 Share Posted February 4, 2005 That's a lot of guys who have failed to live up to expectations or are hurt a lot or will have to restructure contracts. [/i] 685007[/snapback] Read that again. You listed Bashir's as a disappointment Jefferson injury prone Strickland on IR Nick Harper who you said probably won't be back was just signed to a 3 yr contract in April 04 Losing Cory Bird a 3rd round pick won't be missed Rob Morris is a goner Brad Scioli was just signed to a 4 yr contract in 2003 but now you think he's going to be cut You admit the O-line might be a problem And Freeney's 40 sacks in his first 3 years bumps up his base salary from 765k to 5 mill in '06 This window of opportunity you talk about looks like it's getting limited to next year.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phenom Posted February 4, 2005 Share Posted February 4, 2005 If you want to turn it into an "argument" I guess I would say that Vick's per year bonus hit on the cap is higher than Mannings. Right? 34/5= $6.8 million/year for Manning 37.5/5= $7.5 million/year for Vick So your argument is out the window, eh? You don't get to spread the bonus over the entire contract. Only a fixed number of years set out by the Collective Bargaining Agreement. I used 5 years in the above example, but cannot recall the limit right now off the top of my head. Regardless of whatever the limit is, $37.5 million is MORE than $34 million, thus Vick actually DOES cost more than Manning. Any questions? 685285[/snapback] There are none when you decide to address 98 million for 7 years to 130 million over 10 years. Manning is making a million more a year so I think that makes up for the 700K in bonus money. Any further questions.............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted February 4, 2005 Share Posted February 4, 2005 (edited) Also the Falcons aren't trying to tie up a lot of money in just a few players. Marvin Harrison signed a contract of 67 mill for 7 years and 23 mill in gurantees Brandon Stokley's's new contract of 17 mill over 5 years and a 5 mill signing bonus 684778[/snapback] Peerless Price 7 years $42 million including $10 million signing bonus. Keith Brookings 7 years $41 million including $10.5 million signing bonus. Alge Crumpler 6 years $27 million including $10 million guarantees. So the Falcons don't tie up money in a few players, eh? EVERY NFL team does. . . I think the Colts are getting their money's worth :cough:PeerlessPrice:cough: Edited February 4, 2005 by CaptainHook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted February 4, 2005 Share Posted February 4, 2005 (edited) Jefferson injury prone 685319[/snapback] I said he had injuries his first two years. Once he came back this year from his sports hernia that cost him all of 2003, he has been healthy and played well. His contract is up, but he is a RFA. Nick Harper who you said probably won't be back was just signed to a 3 yr contractin April 04 685319[/snapback] WRONG. Nick is an UFA. His contract is up. He only had a one year deal. Losing Cory Bird a 3rd round pick won't be missed 685319[/snapback] Cory has never been able to stay healthy or crack the starting line-up. He's been a decent ST player, so I think he can be replaced easily. Plus his contract is up. I just doubt he is re-signed. How does this make him a bad player/draft pick? Brad Scioli was just signed to a 4 yr contract in 2003 but now you think he's going to be cut 685319[/snapback] He fell out of the rotation this year on the D-line until some injuries to Josh Thomas got him back in there at the end of the year. I just don't think the Colt's will feel he is worth the money. You admit the O-line might be a problem 685319[/snapback] Actually, I said the one area I'm not concerned about is the O-line because of Howard Mudd. Read it again. This window of opportunity you talk about looks like it's getting limited to next year.......... 685319[/snapback] Keep telling yourself that. I think you could go through every NFL roster and find similiar conditions. For you to act like only the Colts are having these kind of problems is laughable. Plus, you are deflecting attention away from the fact that your stats about Vick's bonus are junk, and that Vick contract IS actually bigger and counts more against the cap than Mannings. Class dismissed! Edited February 4, 2005 by CaptainHook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted February 4, 2005 Share Posted February 4, 2005 Plus, you are deflecting attention away from the fact that your stats about Vick's bonus are junk, and that Vick contract IS actually bigger and counts more against the cap than Mannings. Class dismissed! 685352[/snapback] Do you honestly expect phenom to engage in an objective debate regarding Manning and Vick? Here's my take on this: Manning was a selfish jerk for signing a huge, salary cap-constricting contract last year, but it's was OK for an inferior QB like Vick to do it this season. Finding objective analyses of these two deals at The Huddle has been about as easy as locating non-partisan political commentary in the New York Times. The truth of the matter is that the NFL's top QBs will cost roughly $13-$15 million per year against the cap in a few years. The Colts and Falcons were both smart to lock these guys up now rather than later (assuming that Vick eventually learns how to throw to his WRs). God knows what Brady will command when his contract is up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted February 5, 2005 Share Posted February 5, 2005 We all know Peerless "can't get open" Price is a bust all because of Vick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted February 6, 2005 Share Posted February 6, 2005 (edited) Some reports I have seen estimate the Colts have $20 million in cap space going into nexty year. I'd say that's pretty good cap management. . . Edited February 6, 2005 by CaptainHook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.