Cards fire OC

[Bill Swerski]

(1) The point was to run time off of the clock, not necessarily to gain first downs and score again. They were up 23-3 with 10 freaking seconds left in the 3rd quarter. And the Bears offense couldn't get into the endzone all evening.

 

(2) You don't pass the ball to run time off of the clock. You RUN THE BALL. The plays can be vanilla and predictable. Why is this so difficult for you to understand?

 

THE POINT IS TO RUN TIME OFF OF THE CLOCK. The one-yard runs were working perfectly in that regard.

 

(3) YOU CAN'T GAME-PLAN ON OFFENSE FOR TWO TURNOVERS THAT LEAD TO TDs, A PUNT RETURN RUN BACK FOR A TD, AND YOUR KICKER MISSING A FREAKING 40-YARDER.

 

No run along and pretend you didn't just read this post. Pretend it was never said, that way you can still wax ignorant. It really works well on you.

 

 

 

Grow up.

Edited October 18, 2006 by Bill Swerski

[Big Dogs]

This is a great show.....

 

 

[LooGie]

(1) The point was to run time off of the clock, not necessarily to gain first downs and score again. They were up 23-2 with 10 freaking seconds left in the 3rd quarter. And the Bears offense couldn't get into the endzone all evening.

 

Right. Running does take time off the clock. But running for no gain, only lets you take time off the clock for 3 downs plus the punt. A simple first down in a series or two could get you as much as 7 plays. that's the difference between 3 minutes and 7 minutes. That's a hugh difference. Why can't you understand that? Why can't you try and win the game instead of (in your words, i believe) "hoping" the clock runs out? Why can't you be a head coach and coach your team to a victory. Why put everything on your players? Oh yah, because it doesn't always work.

(2) You don't pass the ball to run time off of the clock. The plays can be vanilla and predictable. Why is this so difficult for you to understand?

 

It's not difficult for me to understand. What's difficult for me to understand is you wouldn't go for a 1st down. Drive a nail into the coffin, instead of hoping it doesn't open back up. If you're scared to pass for a first down, try a few OTHER running/screen plays. They were obviously working. You're a coach. Coach.

 

THE POINT IS TO RUN TIME OFF OF THE CLOCK. The negative one-yard runs were working perfectly in that regard.

 

Fixed.

And again, they only were working for 3 downs at a time. Not to mention the idea was not to run time off the clock when you about to attempt a game winning FG with your kicker who's already missed a game winner and already missed another tonight, who's confidence might be somewhat affected. From 40 yards out. If it is, then you're a terrible head coach, and a crappy play caller. Oh yah, that's what I've been saying.

(3) YOU CAN'T GAME-PLAN ON OFFENSE FOR TWO TURNOVERS THAT LEAD TO TDs, A PUNT RETURN RUN BACK FOR A TD, AND YOUR KICKER MISSING A FREAKING 40-YARDER.

 

Who said you could? Can you make an in game adjustment to make sure you actually win this game? Sure. in fact you'd better, or you'll be out of a job. They didn't. Both should be out of a job. I'm sure Green will be.

 

 

 

Grow up.

 

Great comeback. You act like I'm making that up. We debated two other times, and I was right on both counts, and you simply went away. Never took your lumps. That's fine. It's who you are. You seem to pick the side opposite of the majority, and then fight tooth and nail and avoid all the good points made, and then when it actually happens (like when CPep DOES actually get shopped AND traded) you just whistle and move along, strolling along like it was an accident that you hope no one saw.

Good for you.

[LooGie]

This is a great show.....

 

Careful, you might scare him away if he knows he's got an audience.

[Bill Swerski]

Right. Running does take time off the clock. But running for no gain, only lets you take time off the clock for 3 downs plus the punt. A simple first down in a series or two could get you as much as 7 plays. that's the difference between 3 minutes and 7 minutes. That's a hugh difference. Why can't you understand that? Why can't you try and win the game instead of (in your words, i believe) "hoping" the clock runs out? Why can't you be a head coach and coach your team to a victory. Why put everything on your players? Oh yah, because it doesn't always work.

 

It only "doesn't work" when you away two TDs on offense, your special teams can't cover a punt return, and your kicker chokes on a 40-yarder. In other words, it would've worked if the PLAYERS (not the coaching) hadn't bit it on Monday night.

 

And again, they only were working for 3 downs at a time. Not to mention the idea was not to run time off the clock when you about to attempt a game winning FG with your kicker who's already missed a game winner and already missed another tonight, who's confidence might be somewhat affected.

 

And was the league's top kicker last season. And shouldn't be in the NFL if he can't make a 40-yarder under pressure.

 

Great comeback. You act like I'm making that up. We debated two other times, and I was right on both counts, and you simply went away. Never took your lumps. That's fine. It's who you are. You seem to pick the side opposite of the majority,

 

And speaking of the "majority", they clearly disagree with you in this thread. But, hey, don't let those facts get in the way of your childish rant.

 

(like when CPep DOES actually get shopped AND traded) you just whistle and move along, strolling along like it was an accident that you hope no one saw.

 

I really don't remember making more than three or four posts last year about what would happen to Culpepper. And I have no problem being wrong about it. Only immature little boys like you seem to care.

Edited October 18, 2006 by Bill Swerski

[LooGie]

It only "doesn't work" when you away two TDs on offense, your special teams can't cover a punt return, and your kicker chokes on a 40-yarder. In other words, it would've worked if the PLAYERS (not the coaching) hadn't bit it on Monday night.

 

 

It only works if you don't give those away right? Then why would you stick with it AFTER YOU ALREADY DID GIVE THEM AWAY? Wow, you walked right into that one.

 

 

And was the league's top kicker last season. And shouldn't be in the NFL if he can't make a 40-yarder under pressure.

 

 

Right, and therefore a coach should never worry about coaching players, or motivating players, or making absolutely sure he does everything in his power to help his players out. Right. I mean, that's not why they're there. They're there to make sure the players do everything for themselves and carry him for reason to superbowl after superbowl. Right.

 

And speaking of the "majority", they clearly disagree with you in this thread. But, hey, don't let those facts get in the way of your childish rant.

 

 

Majority people here believe that the play calling was fine? Fess up people. Raise your hands. Who thinks the play calling was fine? AFTER they lose a 20 point lead? After they lost a 13 point lead? After they lost a 6 point lead?

I really don't remember making more than three or four posts last year about what would happen to Culpepper. And I have no problem being wrong about it. Only immature little boys like you seem to care.

 

 

Well allow me to refresh your memory:

 

http://forums.thehuddle.com/index.php?showtopic=128255&st=0

[Bill Swerski]

It only works if you don't give those away right? Then why would you stick with it AFTER YOU ALREADY DID GIVE THEM AWAY? Wow, you walked right into that one.

 

THEY DIDN'T! They PASSED THE BALL after losing the lead!!!

 

Right, and therefore a coach should never worry about coaching players, or motivating players, or making absolutely sure he does everything in his power to help his players out.

 

That has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE PLAY-CALLLING DURING MONDAY NIGHT'S GAME, you moran!

 

Majority people here believe that the play calling was fine? Fess up people. Raise your hands. Who thinks the play calling was fine? AFTER they lose a 20 point lead? After they lost a 13 point lead? After they lost a 6 point lead?

 

Um, they PASSED THE BALL after they lost the 20-point lead and then played conservatively when they were within very reasonable FG range.

 

The majority of people in this thread seem to feel that the PLAYER EXECUTION was "terrible", not the play-calling. They also agree that...

 

(1) Offensive Coordinators don't teach blocking techniques. Offensive Line coaches do.

 

(2) Offensive Coordinators don't teach punt return coverage. Special Teams coaches do.

 

(3) Offensive Coordinators don't teach kickers how to kick.

[LooGie]

THEY DIDN'T! They PASSED THE BALL after losing the lead!!!

 

Right, except for the last 2 plays of course. But they didn't pass after the fumble, or the strip. They stuck with the same 2 play calls.That's bad play calling.

That has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE PLAY-CALLLING DURING MONDAY NIGHT'S GAME, you moran!

 

Right, but you said RAcker's should've made that FG. THAT has nothing to do with play calling.

 

Um, they PASSED THE BALL after they lost the 20-point lead and then played conservatively when they were within very reasonable FG range.

 

They play conservatively UNTIL they lost the 20 point lead, as well as when they were within FG range. The only person calling plays in the 2nd half that made any progress was Leinart.

Dont avoid the statment I've now made 4 times a 5th time please. Why not call a different running play? Why not? Please don't pretend you don't see this statement for a 5th time. Acknowledge it. The same god damned running play 30 of 36 times was a bad idea. Especially after a fumble, a strip, and then a punt return. That's god damned admit it please.

 

The majority of people in this thread seem to feel that the PLAYER EXECUTION was "terrible", not the play-calling. They also agree that...

 

(1) Offensive Coordinators don't teach blocking techniques. Offensive Line coaches do.

 

(2) Offensive Coordinators don't teach punt return coverage. Special Teams coaches do.

 

(3) Offensive Coordinators don't teach kickers how to kick.

 

Great, I would completely agree with all those statements, except that not only was the play calling terrible, i disagree that majority think it wasn't terrible.

Some could say that's not why they lost. Ok, I would agree with them.

 

your three points above have nothing to do with play calling.

 

I do like how you avoided the Culpepper thing YET AGAIN. at least you're consistant.

[Bill Swerski]

Right, except for the last 2 plays of course. But they didn't pass after the fumble, or the strip. They stuck with the same 2 play calls.That's bad play calling.

 

Wrong. It was smart play-calling because they had a 6-point lead in the waning minutes of the fourth quarter.

 

No OC in the NFL is going to anticipate his offense and special teams giving up THREE TOUCHDOWNS in the last 15:05 of the game.

 

Right, but you said RAcker's should've made that FG. THAT has nothing to do with play calling.

 

Right, it has to do with failed player execution. Thanks for proving my point... again.

 

They play conservatively UNTIL they lost the 20 point lead, as well as when they were within FG range. The only person calling plays in the 2nd half that made any progress was Leinart.

 

And if he would've thrown an INT in the red zone, you'd be bitching about THAT call as well. You Monday Morning QBs are so freaking predictable.

 

Dont avoid the statment I've now made 4 times a 5th time please. Why not call a different running play? Why not? Please don't pretend you don't see this statement for a 5th time. Acknowledge it. The same god damned running play 30 of 36 times was a bad idea. Especially after a fumble, a strip, and then a punt return. That's god damned admit it please.

 

BECAUSE YOU'RE RUNNING OUT THE CLOCK. THE GOAL ISN'T TO FOOL THE DEFENSE. IT'S TO RUN TIME OFF OF THE CLOCK.

 

Great, I would completely agree with all those statements, except that not only was the play calling terrible, i disagree that majority think it wasn't terrible.

 

The majority have already spoken. And they think that you're WRONG.

 

I do like how you avoided the Culpepper thing YET AGAIN. at least you're consistant .

 

Yep, I'm "consistant."

 

I've already admitted that I was incorrect about Culpepper. It takes a man to admit that he's wrong, something that you obviously have yet to learn. But fortunately for me, I'm right about most other things, so it doesn't bother me at all.

Edited October 18, 2006 by Bill Swerski

[LooGie]

this deserves its own post, just to group together your stupidity.

 

And again, they only were working for 3 downs at a time. Not to mention the idea was not to run time off the clock when you about to attempt a game winning FG with your kicker who's already missed a game winner and already missed another tonight, who's confidence might be somewhat affected. From 40 yards out. If it is, then you're a terrible head coach, and a crappy play caller. Oh yah, that's what I've been saying.

 

 

 

And was the league's top kicker last season. And shouldn't be in the NFL if he can't make a 40-yarder under pressure.

 

 

 

Right, and therefore a coach should never worry about coaching players, or motivating players, or making absolutely sure he does everything in his power to help his players out. Right. I mean, that's not why they're there. They're there to make sure the players do everything for themselves and carry him for reason to superbowl after superbowl. Right.

 

 

 

That has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE PLAY-CALLLING DURING MONDAY NIGHT'S GAME, you moran!

 

 

 

Right, but you said RAcker's should've made that FG. THAT has nothing to do with play calling.

 

 

 

Right, it has to do with failed player execution. Thanks for proving my point... again.

 

if it wasn't about play calling, then why did you bring it up in the first place? Then, when I retort, why do you say it has nothing to do with the play calling

Then, when I retort THAT, you say you know, it's not about play calling which way do you want to go here? Oh I know, You want to talk circles and prove mystical points that don't exist with half sentences and even more mystical notions having nothing to do with the topic at hand. :

[LooGie]

And yet another post to group together even more stupidity, half truths and mythical notions of humility.

 

I really don't remember making more than three or four posts last year about what would happen to Culpepper. And I have no problem being wrong about it. Only immature little boys like you seem to care.

 

Well allow me to refresh your memory:

 

http://forums.thehuddle.com/index.php?showtopic=128255&st=0

 

 

 

*crickets chirping*

 

 

I do like how you avoided the Culpepper thing YET AGAIN. at least you're consistant.

 

 

 

I've already admitted that I was incorrect about Culpepper. It takes a man to admit that he's wrong, something that you obviously have yet to learn. But fortunately for me, I'm right about most other things, so it doesn't bother me at all.

 

Who did you admit it to? Five posts ago you said you don't remember saying much of anything about CPep, now you've admitted being wrong? To your wife? It sure wasn't me. It sure wasn't on this board.

Was it when you said "And I have no problem being wrong about it"? Was that your taking the high road of humility? You'll forgive me if laugh out load on that one.

[LooGie]

now for my actual reply to this nonsense subject you're continuing to avoid.

 

Wrong. It was smart play-calling because they had a 6-point lead in the waning minutes of the fourth quarter.

 

Oh man. The same running play, that was not taking even close to enough time off the clock, because it was going no where, was good play calling? So, because you're up by 6, after watching the momentum swing to the juggernaut defense after a fumble and a strip, you should go EXTRA conservative and just completely stop attempting to get first downs anymore? I dont even think Marty would play that bad of Marty-ball.

Why not take a knee then? There's less of a chance to fumble. It'll net the same results. Why not?

And I seriously doubt there's ANYONE on this board that would say it was good play calling.

 

edit: and just so you can't twist words here, I'm not talking about calling running plays. Calling running plays that would work is just fine. Nothing wrong with it all. The same running play that was not and would not work? Not good play calling.

No OC in the NFL is going to anticipate his offense and special teams giving up THREE TOUCHDOWNS in the last 15:05 of the game.

 

Jesus christ Bill, follow a yumping time line here. AFTER THE OC WATCHED IT yumpING HAPPEN. AFTER THEY HAD WITNESSED THE PLAYS HAPPEN. After the strip, and after the fumble. Down by 6. probably already had 30 runs to Edge for about 50 yads. You're only up by 6. There's still tons of time on the board, AND THE RUNNING PLAYS WERE GETTING 3 AND OUTS That last part is important.

3 and out DOES NOT EAT THE CLOCK. It gives the ball back to them with plenty of time. It puts there offense on the field and gives them oppurtunity. Sure, the offense was doing crap. So, just completely give up on your own offense and decide to stop attempting to get an extra set of downs. you know, TO EAT MORE TIME OFF THE CLOCK THAN 2 MINUTES? If that was the case, if you truly just wanted to get your offense off the field, and put it in your defenses hands, why not just take a god damned knee?

Why even attempt the same god damned running play up the middle when Urlacher hadn't been blocked since the 3rd quarter?

Lemme guess your comeback:

" TO EAT TIME OFF THE CLOCK YOU MORAN "

Did i come close? I bet I nailed that yumper, and now you don't know what to say, right? Go ahead, say it.

 

Well since you've said it nine hundred times, I'll just retort it right here. Oh wait..I just did. See that yumping paragraph right above this one? It completely proves why the same goddamned running play was bad play calling. It completely demonstrates why it wasn't working. 3 and outs do not eat time off the clock. You must, you simply must ATTEMPT to get a 1st down. It's crucial. It's imperative. It's so neccessary that it's worth THE ENTIRE GAME.

And if he would've thrown an INT in the red zone, you'd be bitching about THAT call as well. You Monday Morning QBs are so freaking predictable.

this statement is so asinine it makes me want to puke. Of course I would be bitching about that. Who the hell would throw in the red zone with a rookie qb facing the bears D, and all you need is a FG, with only a few seconds left on the board? Hopefully not one single HC.

I am NOT saying they should've continued to throw the ball downfield. I did not say they should've aired it out until the cows came home. I did not even say they should have stopped running (screen/swing and shovel passes included). Just try something else. Just try for a 4 yard gain. Try for a 3rd and short. Jesus.

 

BECAUSE YOU'RE RUNNING OUT THE CLOCK. THE GOAL ISN'T TO FOOL THE DEFENSE. IT'S TO RUN TIME OFF OF THE CLOCK.

 

Fool the defense? "fool the defense" he says.

OC: Hey lets run to the left.

Green: No no. don't get creative. We need to eat the clock, not fool the defense.

 

You're so dumb it is actually impressive. I've really tried hard to stay away from your personal insults, and general childs-play, that you employ EVERY SINGLE time i've witnessed you in any conversation. Even in the CPep thread, you lost your train of thought, lost your cool, spit some insults, became very childish, and never came back. Even when called out.

 

But now that you've dragged me down to your level, and released me from those constraints, I feel enlightened.

I welcome this world you've created for us both, and you can live happily because you will always have me to provide you with valid points that you can both ignore and/or twist around to prove your own magical disappearing arguments with. I will never turn my back on you.

 

In fact, I'll officially plummet to your level so you will no longer be alone:

 

You're a childish, self-loathing, uninspired, un-original, vanilla idiot.

 

There, there. Isn't that better? Hush hush now.

Edited October 19, 2006 by LooGie

[Bill Swerski]

3 and out DOES NOT EAT THE CLOCK. It gives the ball back to them with plenty of time.

 

LOL, yeah and that Bears offense was just off-the-hook good on Monday night, so giving them the ball back after running a few minutes off of the clock (yes, you do run a significant amount of time off of the clock, even on a 3-and-out... but as you'll see later, that's not what they did) would've been a recipe for disaster!

 

The Bears offense did what... kicked two FGs and turned the ball over 6 times?

 

That 20-point lead would've disappeared in no time!

 

Nice game-planning there, Coach Martz!

 

And if you go back and look at the play-by-play, you'll see that ARI was doing a lot more than running the ball up the gut between their last drive in the 3rd quarter and the punt return by Hester (i.e., when they had between a 20- and a 6-point lead)...

 

3rd Q (0:50): 1 yard on one carry and then the sack/fumble

4th Q (15:00): 14 yards on three carries and Leinart was 1/3 for 15 yards passing

4th Q (10:53): -1 yard on one carry and Leinart was 0/2 on passes

4th Q (9:17): 0 yards on 2 carries and Leinart was 1/1 with 6 yards passing

4th Q (5:53): -1 yards on 1 carry and then the Edge fumble

4th Q (4:53): -1 yard on 2 carries and Leinart was 1/3 with 15 passing yards

 

They threw the ball PLENTY on those six drives. Leinart attempted 9 passes on the 4 drives that weren't stopped on the second play by fumbles. The problem is that he only completed three of them. THREE freaking completions in four drives! And that's the Offensive Coordinator's fault??? So, no, they weren't running the ball up the gut on every play. PLENTY of passes were mixed in, but the vast majority were incomplete... AND they stopped the clock. They weren't just sitting on the lead... they were trying to move the ball! They were playing even LESS conservatively than I would've! They did EXACTLY what you claim that they SHOULD'VE been doing the whole time!

 

So, again, YOU'RE WRONG . You didn't even bother to look up the facts! Good job!

 

 

But if you promise to stop arguing this asinine point like a raging ret@rd, I'll agree with you...

 

Yes, you're right. The Cards' offensive play-calling was terrible on Monday night, despite the fact that they put up 23 points against a defense that hadn't allowed more than 16 this season. The Offensive Coordinator certainly deserved to be fired for that. He also deserved to be fired because the O-line can't run-block, the O-line can't pick up the blitz, the QB can't hold onto the ball, the halfback can't hold onto the ball, the special teams can't cover a punt return, and the kicker can't make a 40-yd field goal. Bad play-calling was responsible for all of that.

 

You're 100% correct about this, and it's obvious by the way that the majority of the people in this thread agree with you.

Edited October 19, 2006 by Bill Swerski

[LooGie]

3rd Q (0:50): 1 yard on one carry and then the sack/fumble

4th Q (15:00): 14 yards on three carries and Leinart was 1/3 for 15 yards passing

4th Q (10:53): -1 yard on one carry and Leinart was 0/2 on passes

4th Q (9:17): 0 yards on 2 carries and Leinart was 1/1 with 6 yards passing

4th Q (5:53): -1 yards on 1 carry and then the Edge fumble

4th Q (4:53): -1 yard on 2 carries and Leinart was 1/3 with 15 passing yards

 

This completely proves my point. That's 7 carries for a total of *drum roll* negative 3 yards.

But lets pretend that last drive wasn't there. Let pretend it's monday night again, and Edge just fumbled for a TD.

that would make it a 6 point lead with 5 MINUTES LEFT. And up to that point in the 4th, Edge had 5 carries for a total of -2 yards and a fumble for TD. Right? Not very stellar. In fact, if I was half of a decent coach, or a somewhat mediocre play caller, I'd stay away the same god damned running play to the same god damned 30 million dollar runner who can't get past his crappy o-line.

But they didn't. They watched him get 5 carries for -2 yards and a fumble and with 5 minutes left on the clock, with only a 6 point lead. They then, gave him the ball 5 MORE TIMES! 2 in the next drive. And IIRC it was one carry in the first set of downs, Leinart gets the first down, and they give it back to Edge, and Leinart misses 2 passes. and the 5 carries, what were they you ask? Yup. the same god damned running play. The 2 running plays AFTER Edge fumbled for a TD and put the bears within 6 pts? Yup, the same god damned running play. It blows my mind even as I type this. It was just bad play calling.

 

Did they try a mis direction? No. Did they try a screen pass? No. Did they try a shovel pass? No. Did they try a swing pass? No. Did they try an end around? No. Did they try draw play, or sh!t..ANYTHING? NO.

They gave the ball back with TONS of time on the clock. They put the ball in Edges hands, up the gut, watched it go nowhere and then asked their rookie QB to get the first. He did. Once, then 2 INCOMPLETE passes, after they gave it to Edge AGAIN. Yup, same god damned running play.

 

Yes, you're right. The Cards' offensive play-calling was terrible on Monday night, despite the fact that they put up 23 points against a defense that hadn't allowed more than 16 this season.

 

I did not say their play calling was terrible on monday night. I said AFTER the 3rd quarter. After the momentum was swinging and the lead went from 20, to 13, to 6 to down by 1. You know it, but again, you're trying to twist words so you can feel better about your argument that is clearly wrong. You want to go bury your argument in the pet cemetary so it can come back to life. You're not willing to let it go. So you'll twist words and run circles and spit insults. My wife does the same thing. She can't be wrong either.

 

The Offensive Coordinator certainly deserved to be fired for that. He also deserved to be fired because the O-line can't run-block, the O-line can't pick up the blitz, the QB can't hold onto the ball, the halfback can't hold onto the ball, the special teams can't cover a punt return, and the kicker can't make a 40-yd field goal. Bad play-calling was responsible for all of that.

 

Again, you're twisting words and trying to make it sound like i said the play calling was completely the reason the Cards lost. Which I'm not, dor do I even remotely consider. All those reasons are the reason the Cards lost. If I have to place blame, i'll place blame on Denny Green. It's his job to motivate players and coach them on fundamentals so this won't happen.

It's also his responsibility to make sure the plays called will put his team in the best possible position to win. So all my blame for the loss goes to Denny Green, however, Rackers needs to make that FG. Edge needs to remember his 30 million dollar fundamentals.

The o-line is not good enough to learn to block, so that's Denny's fault also for not beefing it up in the off season.

The loss cannot be blamed on play calling. Play calling is merely one aspect of the game that Denny Green set into motion in the 4th quarter that caused the downfall. It was terrible. NOT THE REASON THEY LOST, BUT ONE ASPECT OF IT!!!

Are you really going to say Leinart should've held onto that ball? If so, your football knowledge is laughable. Very very laughable. ha. ha.

 

You're 100% correct about this, and it's obvious by the way that the majority of the people in this thread agree with you.

 

Look around you idiot. It's just you and me in here. No one cares, Not one single person has said "calling that same god damned running play was brialliant coaching" EXCEPT YOU!!!! You're the only one trying to make this point, and it's just not makable.

I don't usually like to bring other peoples opinions into my debates, but in this case, it just works...

forgive me if its not word for word, I'm paraphrasing, but it'll be pretty close to ver batim.

 

Adam Schein on the afternoon blitz: "Cards fire their OC, but look, the play calling was atrocious. Why they kept going to the run when it clearly wasn't working I'll never know. Denny Green needs to take a hit for this."

Jim Miller former QB of the bears and current NFL analyst: "(chuckles) You pretty much said it all Adam."

Tiki Barber, the always tactful current NFL RUNNING BACK: "I think you do need to look at Denny Green and question why they were sticking with the run when it wasn't really successful..."

Tim Ryan former NFL player and current NFL analyst: "The play calling was terrible"

Pat Kirwin former NFL general manager and current NFL analyst: "Well Denny doesn't call the plays, but..."

Tim Ryan: "yah, Patty, but he's got a headset, he over hears everything. he could've stepped in at any time"

Pat Kirwin: "Right. Edge broke an NFL record. (laughs) Most carries for the least amount of yardage"

Tim Ryan: something along the lines of 'what a joke' or something. not very nice.

 

So, you'll forgive me if I happen to agree with ex and current NFL players and current NFL analysts who not only know the game, but get paid to talk about it. Not to mention the running back said they should've gotten away from the run. Running backs say that all the time

I cannot even agree to disagree with you, because the fact is, you're simply wrong. You actually couldn't be more wrong if you laughed at a nun with cancer.

So, I'll gladly let this go, as I've said twice now in the other threads, and even at the start of this thread when I stated I was making an obvservation regarding why the OC would get fired.

But you're wrong. Deal with it, and accept it, like you claim you do, even though there's proof all over this board that you do not. In fact, the proof proves EXACTLY the antithesis.

 

And do me a favor, check the spelling of this post, and if I happen to mis spell a word, point it out because it has alot to do with this argument and makes you look like a real good verbal tactician. you're a joke.

[Bill Swerski]

 

 

 

(1) The Cardinals can't run the ball. It doesn't matter if they run it up the middle, off of the guard, or off of the tackle. This is because their O-line can't run-block and the Bears were playing the run in the 4th quarter to keep them from running off the clock.

(1A) Offensive Coordinators don't teach linemen how to run-block.

 

(2) Matt Leinart was 3/9 on pass attempts in the first FIVE DRIVES of the 4th quarter. He completed THREE FREAKING PASSES on five drives! They tried to pass in the 4th quarter to obtain first downs and control the clock, but that didn't work either.

 

(3) The Offensive Coordinator's "terrible" play-calling put up 23 points against the best defense in the league. Calling the OC's job "terrible" becuase he (gasp!) fails to score in one quarter of a game (especially when he scored in the previous three) is completely asinine and clearly shows that you don't know the difference between poor play-calling and poor player execution.

(3A) Offensive Coordinators don't teach players to hold onto the ball or how to cover punt returns.

 

(4) While the play-calling might not have been "excellent" or "superb", it was far from "terrible." Only a moran would argue that.

 

(5) Do us all a favor and shut up.

Edited October 20, 2006 by Bill Swerski

[LooGie]

 

 

Seriously, what is the point of doing that? You're doing the same thing I am. (Except proving your points). Grow up and debate, or shut up.

 

(1) The Cardinals can't run the ball. It doesn't matter if they run it up the middle, off of the guard, or off of the tackle. This is because their O-line can't run-block and the Bears were playing the run in the 4th quarter to keep them from running off the clock.

 

Wow. I wonder if it would be considered good play calling to stick with the same running play then?

(1A) Offensive Coordinators don't teach linemen how to run-block.

 

 

I wonder how many times you're going to say this, as it has nothing to do with our debate regarding play calling. Nor have I said anything even remotely close to accusing the offensive coordinator of anything other than bad play calling, and I place more blame on the HC, because the OC is the one who scored 23 points on the bears... For all we know it was Denny calling the same god damned running play.

 

 

(2) Matt Leinart was 3/9 on pass attempts in the first FIVE DRIVES of the 4th quarter. He completed THREE FREAKING PASSES on five drives! They tried to pass in the 4th quarter to obtain first downs and control the clock, but that didn't work either.

 

 

You act like 9 passes on 5 drives is alot, and you act like they went to the run AFTER the pass wasn't working. I didn't even want them to pass downfield. I'd be happy with short passes to Edge. He can catch out of the back field you know...i wonder if Denny knows that.

Fact is, it was 2 running plays for no gain, or a loss, then 3rd and long and that's going to be pretty hard for a rookie to complete.

why not try to have 3rd and shorts? because Denny is an idiot, and the play calling sucked.

 

(3) The Offensive Coordinator's "terrible" play-calling put up 23 points against the best defense in the league.

(3A) Offensive Coordinators don't teach players to hold onto the ball or how to cover punt returns.

 

I wonder how many times you're going to say this too. I've already said I have not one single problem with the OC, much less his gameplan that scored 23 points on the bears, but yet, you continue to say this, like I'm arguing it. You are again, AGAIN, trying to twist words. I've already told you that, in the last post actually. So just let it go. It has nothing to do with our debate regarding "marty-ball" in the 4th quarter. Or the even worse "Denny-Ball" which I'm going to start calling "Swerski-Ball" Just let it go. Please god just let it go. I have not one single problem with the playcalling BEFORE THE LEAD WAS CUT DOWN TO 13 POINTS. Actually, before the lead was cut to 6 points. SO yumpING LET IT GO!!!

 

 

(4) While the play-calling might not have been "excellent" or "superb", it was far from "terrible." Only a moran would argue that.

 

At least you're going in the right direction here. And I guess Tiki Barber, Adam Schein, Pat Kirwin, Tim Ryan, Jim Miller are morans when it comes to footbal Good argument. You're really providing great points to prove your side of this.

 

(5) Do us all a favor and shut up.

 

Oh wow. I never considered this point. You have just made a great point, and it almost makes me rethink my whole stance on this subject. Your debate skills are incredible, and I bet you took state in highschool.

 

edit: Big John can please fix this god damned quote job?

Edited October 20, 2006 by LooGie

[Bill Swerski]

Keith Olberman was just on the Dan Patrick show ripping Willie Randolph for pich-hitting Cliff Floyd in the 9th and suggested that Randolph should be fired for it. You and Olbermann are two peas in a pod: Monday Morning QBs who don't know what the hell they're talking about.

 

BTW, Adam Schefter agreed with me about the Cards on Total Access earlier this week, but sided with Billick in his firing of Jim Fassel. He knows that, unlike ARI, BAL has enough offensive talent to competently run-block. He, and many others back on the first page of this thread, also recognize that Green's firing of his OC was a nothing short of a knee-jerk reaction and an attempt to deflect blame.

 

You act like 9 passes on 5 drives is alot,

 

It's almost two passes per drive!

 

And it would've been more if Leinart hadn't choked and gone 3/9 on those five drives. And possibly even more if Edge hadn't fumbled on the second play of one of the 4th quarter drives.

 

Fact is, it was 2 running plays for no gain, or a loss, then 3rd and long and that's going to be pretty hard for a rookie to complete.

 

It's difficult for ANY QB to move the ball downfield when the O-line is so bad at run-blocking that they can't set up the pass! Thank you! You finally get it! THE PLAYERS SUCK!

Edited October 20, 2006 by Bill Swerski

[I Like Soup]

I will say, when I was at the game and the Cards settled for three FGs in the second quarter, I told the Bears fan next to me that the Cards were getting too conservative and will lose because they weren't trying to put them away with TDs.

 

A Vikings fan in the parking lot said to me..."that was Denny Green being Denny Green, he'll play not to lose." I tend to agree with him and thought that was what he was doing.

 

Fire Denny Green.

[LooGie]

Keith Olberman was just on the Dan Patrick show ripping Willie Randolph for pich-hitting Cliff Floyd in the 9th and suggested that Randolph should be fired for it. You and Olbermann are two peas in a pod: Monday Morning QBs who don't know what the hell they're talking about.

 

Yah, this has merit.

 

BTW, Adam Schefter agreed with me about the Cards on Total Access earlier this week, but sided with Billick in his firing of Jim Fassel. He knows that, unlike ARI, BAL has enough offensive talent to competently run-block. He, and many others back on the first page of this thread, also recognize that Green's firing of his OC was a nothing short of a knee-jerk reaction and an attempt to deflect blame.

 

I stopped reading after "Shefter". I hope you weren't going to try to use him to prove your phantom point. That would be funny. But like I said, i couldn't get through the whole paragraph.

 

It's almost two passes per drive!

 

I like how you sidestepped, YET AGAIN the fact that throwing the ball wasn't the problem. It was throwing it on 3rd downs after 2 of the same running plays were called. I like how you KEEP dodging the point of any other running play not being called. I really am enjoying this. If they would've thrown the ball DOWNFIELD more, I'd be saying that was stupid too. No need to throw it downfield, just some simple short passes or to the half back out of the back field, or some other running plays. That's all. But go ahead and dodge it again. It's cool.

 

And it would've been more if Leinart hadn't choked and gone 3/9 on those five drives. And possibly even more if Edge hadn't fumbled on the second play of one of the 4th quarter drives.

It's difficult for ANY QB to move the ball downfield when the O-line is so bad at run-blocking that they can't set up the pass! Thank you! You finally get it! THE PLAYERS SUCK!

 

Oh this is classic. Leinart choked. A rookie choked against the best defense in the entire NFL?

How dare he. Jesus...this just keeps getting better and better.

What then, pray tell, would you classifty his 2 minute drill where he drove to FG range? The same said drive where the final 2 plays, that were called in from the sidelines, were the same god damned running play? Was that him choking?

The only person who called plays in the 4th quarter that was gaining ground, WAS LEINART.

[LooGie]

I will say, when I was at the game and the Cards settled for three FGs in the second quarter, I told the Bears fan next to me that the Cards were getting too conservative and will lose because they weren't trying to put them away with TDs.

 

A Vikings fan in the parking lot said to me..."that was Denny Green being Denny Green, he'll play not to lose." I tend to agree with him and thought that was what he was doing.

 

Fire Denny Green.

 

I could not agree more. Even if it wasn't too conservative for some people (it was for me) that wasn't really my beef. My beef was with the same running play 30 times, and continuing to play conservative right after the edge fumble, when they were only up by 6 points, to give the ball back with 5 minutes on the clock.

The bears only need about 10 seconds to return that punt. Just terrible play calling on that drive and THAT play calling on THAT DRIVE merits this whole argument. Even if we forget every single other play all night long. that drive was the worst called drive at the most oppurtunistic time. Denny handed the bears that win on that drive.

[Chief Dick]

Watching Swerski and Loogie argue reminds me of the time I watched a fig tree sweeping the basement floor.

[LooGie]

Watching Swerski and Loogie argue reminds me of the time I watched a fig tree sweeping the basement floor.

i think I got it..no wait...yup..no...wait...I...think...i think I got i...nope got away...wait... YES! I GOT IT

[Chief Dick]

i think I got it..no wait...yup..no...wait...I...think...i think I got i...nope got away...wait... YES! I GOT IT

 

[Bill Swerski]

continuing to play conservative right after the edge fumble, when they were only up by 6 points, to give the ball back with 5 minutes on the clock.

The bears only need about 10 seconds to return that punt. Just terrible play calling on that drive and THAT play calling on THAT DRIVE merits this whole argument. Even if we forget every single other play all night long. that drive was the worst called drive at the most oppurtunistic time. Denny handed the bears that win on that drive.

 

So, you're saying that the OC should've been fired for the play-calling on ONE DRIVE?!?

 

Oh, and your facts are wrong... AGAIN. After the Edge fumble, the Cards gave the Bears the ball back with 3:17 left on the clock, not 5:00.

 

And as you can see from the play-by-play, Edge only ran the ball off the right tackle twice. Three of those five plays were passes and Leinart only completed one of them...

 

1-10-ARI19 (4:53) E.James right tackle to ARZ 20 for 1 yard (B.Urlacher).

2-9-ARI20 (4:13) M.Leinart pass short right to A.Boldin to ARZ 35 for 15 yards (C.Tillman).

1-10-ARI35 (3:32) E.James right tackle to ARZ 33 for -2 yards (B.Urlacher).

2-12-ARI33 (3:27) M.Leinart pass incomplete short right to Bry.Johnson.

3-12-ARI33 (3:23) (Shotgun) M.Leinart pass incomplete short left to Bry.Johnson.

4-12-ARI33 (3:17) S.Player punts 50 yards to CHI 17, Center-N.Hodel. D.Hester for 83 yards, TOUCHDOWN.

 

Oh, and Arrington was flagged 15 yards for taunting on the kick return that set up that drive. I'll bet that was the OC's fault as well?

 

 

I like how you sidestepped, YET AGAIN the fact that throwing the ball wasn't the problem. It was throwing it on 3rd downs after 2 of the same running plays were called. I like how you KEEP dodging the point of any other running play not being called.

 

Yeah, you're right. They should've run super-duper, double-reverse end-arounds. That would've worked brilliantly! Especially when Urlacher (who wasn't being blocked by the O-line) tackled the eventual ball-carrier for a 10-yard loss. Or they could've tried short passes into the flat. That would've worked just great, given that Urlacher, Briggs, and Johnson/Brown were all keying on Edge during the 4th quarter. I'm sure that six- and seven-yard gains would've been no problem at all.

 

The Cards called a safe mix of run and pass plays throughout most of the 4th quarter, which is EXACTLY what you do when you have a lead late in the game and your defense is dominating. You may call it "Marty Ball", but I'll take that over the "Mike Martz Ball" that you support. ALL THAT THEY HAD TO DO WAS PROTECT THE FREAKING BALL AND THEY WOULD'VE WON. But they couldn't even do that.

 

And for the millionth time: YOU CAN'T BLAME PLAY-CALLING FOR A HORRIBLE LACK OF PLAYER EXECUTION!

Edited October 21, 2006 by Bill Swerski

[LooGie]

So, you're saying that the OC should've been fired for the play-calling on ONE DRIVE?!?

 

I haven't said even once the OC should've been fired. Not once. I dont think he should've been fired at all. So, again, twisting words to no end.

 

And for the millionth time: YOU CAN'T BLAME PLAY-CALLING FOR A HORRIBLE LACK OF PLAYER EXECUTION!

 

 

and for the millionth time, I don't.