Fire Wade Phillips

[HowboutthemCowboys]

Funny you bring that up. Letting Faneca walk WAS the right thing to do, no question about it. They had to get Roethlisberger and Polamalu paid, which I'd hope you would agree were higher priorities given their age. The Jets signed Faneca to a five-year, 40-million dollar contract, to a 32 year old guard, who is still very good, but, who started declining two years ago. They vastly over-paid for his services, as his prime years are in the past.

 

Have you ever noticed that 90% of the time, when the Steelers let a high-priced free agent walk through the years, you rarely hear from them again ? The reason they are competitive (and usually in the playoffs) every single year and don't go through 10+ year droughts of not winning a playoff game is that they spend their money intelligently and don't get into cap trouble.

 

So, yes, you are right, JJ probably would have made the incorrect move and over-paid for Alan Faneca.....good point

and in the meantime, Roth is getting killed

[Menudo]

and in the meantime, Roth is getting killed

 

He got killed last year as well, with Faneca there, so, please explain the relevance.

 

Actually, the O-Line, including Faneca's young replacement, Chris Keomatu are improving each and every week. Roethlisberger was afforded great time today and I don't believe he got sacked at all. They have also been terrific run-block, leading Mewelde Moore to 99 yards last week and 120 this week.

 

By the way, the Steelers are 5-1 without Faneca.

[Rovers]

JJ would'nt have let Faneca walk.

 

 

Oh geeze... you went for a Menudo... and now it will become a Steelers thread. Menudo on! Menudo on! get in the chair! get the net! Menudo on!

[Menudo]

Oh geeze... you went for a Menudo... and now it will become a Steelers thread. Menudo on! Menudo on! get in the chair! get the net! Menudo on!

 

Just answering his silliness.......

 

In all seriousness, how has Faneca looked with the Jets ? I actually do love the guy and he was a phenomenal lineman for us for years. The Steelers simply couldn't afford to pay him what his market value was going to be.

[Rovers]

Just answering his silliness.......

 

In all seriousness, how has Faneca looked with the Jets ? I actually do love the guy and he was a phenomenal lineman for us for years. The Steelers simply couldn't afford to pay him what his market value was going to be.

 

He is not as good as he used to be, but is still playing pretty well... more importantly, he has helped Mangold and Ferguson with his veteran presence quite a bit. Their play has improved with him in between them.

 

The problem with the Jets is Mangini.... afraid to throw the ball in OT with Favre. He is starting to look like Herm II.

[HowboutthemCowboys]

Oh geeze... you went for a Menudo... and now it will become a Steelers thread. Menudo on! Menudo on! get in the chair! get the net! Menudo on!

was'nt fishing really, and he makes a few good points. Mine was just that JJ signs guys that he thinks will help him win games. Yeah, I wish he would'nt go down to the sidelines during games and I wish he would talk less to reporters but I like the fact that he wants to win and does'nt mind spending the money trying to win.

And, IIRC ( I'm not searching for it), Menudo was posting on here that he thought Pitt should re-sign Faneca before he left.

[Grits and Shins]

 

Which owner would you prefer to have??

 

I can't think of one I would prefer to have over him, iron grip or not.

 

GM - some bad draft picks, and a bad trade for Galloway, in spite of the best intentions. Hiring Wade wasn't HORRIBLE, but hiring Wade's assistants is a little over the top if you ask me.

 

Paying Jason Garrett $3 million per year as OC is over the top, but a great "move" to keep him around until the "greater move" of him to HC. Does Garrett remind you of a "yes-man". Yes men don't get paid 3 million a year without being the Head Coach. Yes-men get paid ok and get to keep their jobs because....well, the boss likes the "yes-man".

 

I like JJ because he will make any move to try to better the team. Pac-Man was not a move to put an idiot in a Cowboys' uniform, but an opportunity to get a potentially good impact player on the cheap. High risk, high reward. BUT, its not like they pinned there hopes on him to have a great season. He wasn't a "starter" that had to make it for the team to succeed. He ended up starting because of injuries, but him not being there does not impact the core of the team going forward. Nice move for Roy Williams also.

 

In the past two years, which horrible move did JJ make as a GM? Hiring Phillips? That wasn't being said until the past few weeks, when the bandwagon started getting a bit lighter.

 

And if I recall correctly, the savior, Jason Garrett, runs EVERYTHING on offense. That is not Wade's show. Motivation seems to be an issue for sure, but the GM has put the talent there. Coaches don't go from being great 6 weeks ago, to sucking this quickly. There is player accountability. Garrett has to figure out why his offense can't move the ball consistently and teams like the friggin Rams can snuff them out. Defensively, there are injuries, but the offense has to keep them off the field.

 

Anyway, JJ is a great owner, and a decent GM over the past 4-5 years. The team is in place.....execution on defense and game-planning on offense are the real culprits here.

 

 

JJ is a great owner in that he is not afraid to spend money and wants to win. That is good.

 

JJ is a horrible owner in that he has hired the worst GM in the league. Name ONE team ... any team .... that would hire JJ as their GM based on his ability to perform that function.

 

The team we have now was built by Bill Parcells acting in the GM role. Under the mantle of JJ the GM the Cowboys have had very talented teams twice ... those built by Jimmy Johnson acting as the GM and those built by Bill Parcells acting as the GM.

 

I'm absolutely amazed that there is ANYBODY out there that bellieves JJ has an ounce of ability to be a decent GM in his body.

 

... Oh ... and I believe I wouild take the Rooney's over JJ too if it meant that the Rooney's would hire a real GM and a real coach and let them run the team.

Edited October 20, 2008 by Grits and Shins

[Menudo]

was'nt fishing really, and he makes a few good points. Mine was just that JJ signs guys that he thinks will help him win games. Yeah, I wish he would'nt go down to the sidelines during games and I wish he would talk less to reporters but I like the fact that he wants to win and does'nt mind spending the money trying to win.

And, IIRC ( I'm not searching for it), Menudo was posting on here that he thought Pitt should re-sign Faneca before he left.

 

Nope. I don't think I ever said that. They did the right thing. I might have said that I wished they could sign him, but, I knew that they had to pay Ben & Troy and wouldn't have room to pay Faneca. At one point, I might have thought it was a possibility, but, as time came closer, I knew it wasn't realistic.

 

Also, keep in mind, I never said that JJ's method was right or wrong, I was just showing that other owners can take a much different approach and still have success.

[Chavez]

The problem with the Jets is Mangini.... afraid to throw the ball in OT with Favre. He is starting to look like Herm II.

Um, I was just watching the end of that game and Favre was scaring the crap out of ME in OT...and I couldn't care less if a burning zeppelin crashed on the Jets practice field in the middle of training camp.

[Rovers]

Um, I was just watching the end of that game and Favre was scaring the crap out of ME in OT...and I couldn't care less if a burning zeppelin crashed on the Jets practice field in the middle of training camp.

 

Can you perhaps elaborate? I have no clue what you meany here... Favre would throw a TD, or an INT? Which were you afraid of?

 

It's been a very long time since a zeppelin crashed in NJ... little to care about there, one way or another.

[Pirate lookin' at 40]

Speaking of Polamalu, can't wait to see him on this week's "Jacked Up" segment. He got his world rocked today.

 

I hate to hear the complaints about Jerry firing Jimmy Johnson. People need to realize that even if that didn't happen, Johnson would still be long gone by now.

 

As a Cowboy fan, I can't think of an owner I'd rather have. Jerry has assembled a very talent rich team, they just need to get their act together - which may not be this year. I met Jerry once, he was incredibly nice.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if the hammer falls on Phillips with another loss or two in the near future. But, I'm not terribly excited about Jason Garret as a head coach.

 

Don't be surprised if Romo is behind center next week. No way can they allow Brad Johnson to start another game.

[Chavez]

Can you perhaps elaborate? I have no clue what you meany here... Favre would throw a TD, or an INT? Which were you afraid of?

 

It's been a very long time since a zeppelin crashed in NJ... little to care about there, one way or another.

In the bit I watched, Favre looked cover-your-eyes heinous.

 

It looked like he might somehow be the first person in NFL history to manage TWO game-losing turnovers in a single overtime.

[Menudo]

Speaking of Polamalu, can't wait to see him on this week's "Jacked Up" segment. He got his world rocked today.

 

Ah, I think 'got his world rocked' is a bit of an exaggeration. He did come out of the game, and I didn't hear final word, but, I think he may have gotten a concussion.

 

It isn't like he got straight plowed over. He came in on a hit, and his helmet hit Benson's, knocking himself backwards. All that said, I hope he is o.k.

 

 

Edited October 20, 2008 by Menudo

[Rovers]

In the bit I watched, Favre looked cover-your-eyes heinous.

 

It looked like he might somehow be the first person in NFL history to manage TWO game-losing turnovers in a single overtime.

 

Well, that IS Favre. He will lose as many games with his arm as he wins. I wasn't as thrilled as most Jets fans when we got him for this very reason. But... he's a Jet now.... so you let him sling away, and live with what happens.

 

The Jets didn't throw deep at all in this game. So... did we need a Favre for that kind of offense? I think in the two possessions the Jets had in OT, throwing on first down would have been a good idea... but the ghost of Herm Edwards walks the corridors of Ginats Stadium....

 

I think I'll let the typo go... Ginats Stadium.... has a nice ring to it....

Edited October 20, 2008 by Rovers

[Chaim.Witz]

JJ is a horrible owner in that he has hired the worst GM in the league. Name ONE team ... any team .... that would hire JJ as their GM based on his ability to perform that function.

I wish you would have asked that several weeks ago, when Millen was still in Detroit.....then I could give you an answer!

 

But as far as this being a Parcell's built team, I'll give him his props for what he did. HOWEVER, don't over-value what he did as far as personnel goes. Obviously, he gets props for grooming Romo, and obviously, Jerry did not get too meddlesome, because his hand-picked knit-wits did not last. If he truly forced the issue as owner/GM, we would still be looking at the likes of Henson, Chutch, etc. standing on the sideline with a clipboard. He takes some chances and has ideas, but is smart enough to cut bait when it doesn't pan out.

 

Bill had nothing to do with some of the moves the past two seasons, and these moves really did improve the talent on this team (whether its showing right now or not):

 

- Signed Leonard Davis to hugh contract to shore up OL

- We know the Tuna was not who brought TO on board

- When did Ken Hamlin arrive?

- Trade for Roy Williams

- Even if failed, made the deal for PacMan

- Brought in Tank Johnson

- Pretty decent draft with the likes of Felix, M. Bennett, Jenkins, etc

- Signed that little dude named Zach Thomas, who Big Bill let walk

- Re-signed Keith Davis, that Big Bill not only signed in Miami, only to release prior to season starting.

- After seeing B. Johnson stink up the joint, made a play at Bollinger...just in case....not bad foresight

- Let Julius walk, even though that was one of his guys (even though JJ's ego is soooo big)

- Didn't give in on the T. Glenn shenanigans

 

And the best move of JJ the GM..........despite what some people call a stupid move that forced Goodell to show him up.......drum roll:

 

Jerry coming out in the press conference and stating that after the internal investigation, the team would not suspend Pac Man because he did not violate the terms of his contract. This was brilliant and sneaky! Don't think for a moment Jerry didn't know how this would play out. If the Cowboys suspend him, the Cowboys lose their pick to Titans. This "non-action" on the Cowboys part basically forced the NFL to pull the trigger and suspend Pac Man, therefore, getting Dallas back its draft pick, which I might add was sent immediately to Detroit as part of the Roy Williams trade. Jerry couldn't lose here, because either the NFL suspends him and they get the draft pick back, or the NFL does nothing and Pac Man is still playing. Either way, Jerry looks like it blew up in his face, but in reality, his high risk gamble on Pac Man didn't cost him as much as it would appear. And if for some unknown reason Pac Man does get to play again and the Cowboys take him back, the Cowboys got him for nothing (except a little black eye for the organization, but those eventually heal)

 

Not that I have man-love for Jerry, but I am an equal opportunity basher. Don't forget that not everything Big Bill touched turned to gold. He brought in a lot of re-treads that were serviceable, but what did he really leave behind as far as talent he brought in?? Everything I am coming up with were draft picks, but I could be forgetting something.

[kpholmes]

I wish you would have asked that several weeks ago, when Millen was still in Detroit.....then I could give you an answer!

 

But as far as this being a Parcell's built team, I'll give him his props for what he did. HOWEVER, don't over-value what he did as far as personnel goes. Obviously, he gets props for grooming Romo, and obviously, Jerry did not get too meddlesome, because his hand-picked knit-wits did not last. If he truly forced the issue as owner/GM, we would still be looking at the likes of Henson, Chutch, etc. standing on the sideline with a clipboard. He takes some chances and has ideas, but is smart enough to cut bait when it doesn't pan out.

 

Bill had nothing to do with some of the moves the past two seasons, and these moves really did improve the talent on this team (whether its showing right now or not):

 

- Signed Leonard Davis to hugh contract to shore up OL

- We know the Tuna was not who brought TO on board

- When did Ken Hamlin arrive?

- Trade for Roy Williams

- Even if failed, made the deal for PacMan

- Brought in Tank Johnson

- Pretty decent draft with the likes of Felix, M. Bennett, Jenkins, etc

- Signed that little dude named Zach Thomas, who Big Bill let walk

- Re-signed Keith Davis, that Big Bill not only signed in Miami, only to release prior to season starting.

- After seeing B. Johnson stink up the joint, made a play at Bollinger...just in case....not bad foresight

- Let Julius walk, even though that was one of his guys (even though JJ's ego is soooo big)

- Didn't give in on the T. Glenn shenanigans

 

And the best move of JJ the GM..........despite what some people call a stupid move that forced Goodell to show him up.......drum roll:

 

Jerry coming out in the press conference and stating that after the internal investigation, the team would not suspend Pac Man because he did not violate the terms of his contract. This was brilliant and sneaky! Don't think for a moment Jerry didn't know how this would play out. If the Cowboys suspend him, the Cowboys lose their pick to Titans. This "non-action" on the Cowboys part basically forced the NFL to pull the trigger and suspend Pac Man, therefore, getting Dallas back its draft pick, which I might add was sent immediately to Detroit as part of the Roy Williams trade. Jerry couldn't lose here, because either the NFL suspends him and they get the draft pick back, or the NFL does nothing and Pac Man is still playing. Either way, Jerry looks like it blew up in his face, but in reality, his high risk gamble on Pac Man didn't cost him as much as it would appear. And if for some unknown reason Pac Man does get to play again and the Cowboys take him back, the Cowboys got him for nothing (except a little black eye for the organization, but those eventually heal)

 

Not that I have man-love for Jerry, but I am an equal opportunity basher. Don't forget that not everything Big Bill touched turned to gold. He brought in a lot of re-treads that were serviceable, but what did he really leave behind as far as talent he brought in?? Everything I am coming up with were draft picks, but I could be forgetting something.

Great Post.

 

All Huddle rookies take note, this is the kind of thorough, well written post that will keep you from looking like a tool and getting hazed around here.

Edited October 20, 2008 by kpholmes

[Grits and Shins]

I wish you would have asked that several weeks ago, when Millen was still in Detroit.....then I could give you an answer!

 

But as far as this being a Parcell's built team, I'll give him his props for what he did. HOWEVER, don't over-value what he did as far as personnel goes. Obviously, he gets props for grooming Romo, and obviously, Jerry did not get too meddlesome, because his hand-picked knit-wits did not last. If he truly forced the issue as owner/GM, we would still be looking at the likes of Henson, Chutch, etc. standing on the sideline with a clipboard. He takes some chances and has ideas, but is smart enough to cut bait when it doesn't pan out.

 

Bill had nothing to do with some of the moves the past two seasons, and these moves really did improve the talent on this team (whether its showing right now or not):

 

- Signed Leonard Davis to hugh contract to shore up OL

- We know the Tuna was not who brought TO on board

- When did Ken Hamlin arrive?

- Trade for Roy Williams

- Even if failed, made the deal for PacMan

- Brought in Tank Johnson

- Pretty decent draft with the likes of Felix, M. Bennett, Jenkins, etc

- Signed that little dude named Zach Thomas, who Big Bill let walk

- Re-signed Keith Davis, that Big Bill not only signed in Miami, only to release prior to season starting.

- After seeing B. Johnson stink up the joint, made a play at Bollinger...just in case....not bad foresight

- Let Julius walk, even though that was one of his guys (even though JJ's ego is soooo big)

- Didn't give in on the T. Glenn shenanigans

 

And the best move of JJ the GM..........despite what some people call a stupid move that forced Goodell to show him up.......drum roll:

 

Jerry coming out in the press conference and stating that after the internal investigation, the team would not suspend Pac Man because he did not violate the terms of his contract. This was brilliant and sneaky! Don't think for a moment Jerry didn't know how this would play out. If the Cowboys suspend him, the Cowboys lose their pick to Titans. This "non-action" on the Cowboys part basically forced the NFL to pull the trigger and suspend Pac Man, therefore, getting Dallas back its draft pick, which I might add was sent immediately to Detroit as part of the Roy Williams trade. Jerry couldn't lose here, because either the NFL suspends him and they get the draft pick back, or the NFL does nothing and Pac Man is still playing. Either way, Jerry looks like it blew up in his face, but in reality, his high risk gamble on Pac Man didn't cost him as much as it would appear. And if for some unknown reason Pac Man does get to play again and the Cowboys take him back, the Cowboys got him for nothing (except a little black eye for the organization, but those eventually heal)

 

Not that I have man-love for Jerry, but I am an equal opportunity basher. Don't forget that not everything Big Bill touched turned to gold. He brought in a lot of re-treads that were serviceable, but what did he really leave behind as far as talent he brought in?? Everything I am coming up with were draft picks, but I could be forgetting something.

 

You didn't answer the question. Take all JJ's money away from him, remove him from ownership of the Cowboys and is there a SINGLE team that would hire him as a GM based on his track record and football acumen? Name me ONE. Certainly JJ likes to go after the top $ free agents and he likes to go after the players that can be had on the cheap.

[Chaim.Witz]

You didn't answer the question. Take all JJ's money away from him, remove him from ownership of the Cowboys and is there a SINGLE team that would hire him as a GM based on his track record and football acumen? Name me ONE. Certainly JJ likes to go after the top $ free agents and he likes to go after the players that can be had on the cheap.

For a myriad of reasons, I don't know if there is any team out there that would want to hire JJ the GM instead of who they have. At the same time, if JJ magically sold the Cowboys, lost all of his money and posted his resume on Monster for a GM position, do I think another NFL team would want to hire him? I doubt it.

 

But that is the beauty and the curse of having JJ as an owner. I doubt there is a GM out there that would be willing to put their job on the line with some of the risky moves JJ makes as GM. Even if I thought along the same lines of JJ, and I was the GM for the Cowboys, spending his money, would I make some of the same type of moves he is willing to make. No way.

 

If the guy with the money decides to put it in high risk investments, then that is his perogative. If the guy handling the money for some rich guy decides to put it all in high risk investments, I doubt he would be handling the money for long, whether they pay off or not. How "we" act with our money and how we act with someone elses money are usually two different things, as there are different levels of responsibility and accountability.

 

Let's pretend that when JJ bought the Cowboys way back when, he hired a GM right off the bat. Which GM can you think of would make it his first order of business to fire the Great Tom Landry? From that day, I did not approve of how Tom Landry was handled/treated. Looking back in hind-sight, and still with a bitter taste in my mouth, I will say that JJ did man-up and do it himself INSTEAD of hiring some supposed GM to "make the decision", where JJ could sit back and let the criticism fall on that person. He did it himself, so I guess that's why I cut him some slack. He makes his decisions and stands behind them....good or bad....but no matter how they turn out, I do believe he is making them for one reason only....to create championship caliber teams (which, in turn sells tickets).

 

Heck, JJ the GM rarely even gets credit for tossing Tom Landry in the dime bin and hiring an even bigger ego-maniac than himself, Jimmy Johnson, the savior of the world. Which head coach acting as GM helped JJ the GM decide to hire Jimmy the Savior? Which GM in the NFL, at that time, hired Jimmy Johnson as a coach (or anything), prior to his stint with the Cowboys? None. And after? Huizenga, with Jimmy's failed bit in Miami.

 

In my opinion, there are basically three types of GM's in the NFL. 1) The Coach/GM who goes after players he wants to coach/have on his team, 2) The common GM who tries to make a move here or there, but pretty conservative to never put himself too far out on the limb and risk his job, 3) The meddlesome Owner/GM, who tries to bring in as much "talent" as they can, and let the coaches figure out how to use them.

 

In the end, I don't know which is best, BUT in each, you must take the good with the bad.

[pookies_CrAck]