pegos Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 Exactly what a switch leaves. should only be on the back of his legs though. Bad move to whip his arms. The marks on his arms/hand are defensive wounds. AP didn't have him lay his arms out and whip them, the kid tried to cover his ass and got lashed on his arms as a result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chloroform Rx Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 The debate as to whether this was right or wrong will never end. And the reasons for this have much to do with why the incident happened in the first place. Bottom line is we all had different upbringings. And when you have an internet forum with people from all over the country, the difference in opinion is highly prevalent. Our perceptions are shaped by how we relate to the situation and how we were brought up. Some of us got whooped on and don't see this as a huge deal; others had their nose put in a corner and are unable to stomach what they see. I can just imagine people in south Texas shaking their heads right about now. Watching as he's vilified in the media and thinking how ridiculous it is that a father is sitting in jail over this with his career in ruins. While others sit a thousand miles away not even knowing what a switch is. These are cultural differences. People in the south also eat pigs feet -- disgusting right? Adrian Peterson was raised this way. He got "switched" growing up so he was conditioned to think this was the norm, regardless of what YOU think. It does appear to be excessive in that it broke the skin, but he has acknowledged this. He has shown remorse for his actions prior to media coverage. Yet we want to crucify him because it's in the spotlight. I bet everyone with an opinion on this matter has something they swept under the rug. It's just that no one gives a sh*t. I don't agree with his method of discipline but I'm not going to tell him how to raise his children. All that being said this really boils down to his role model status and how he is held to a different standard. This will be blown way out of proportion because of who he is, and partially because of what he did. You won't see anyone in the media defending him either because it will put their own career in jeopardy, and that's all to sad. Does anyone know if the mother even bothered to phone the police? Hmmm. I have a 4-year-old and I couldn't imagine switching him to any degree, but I also understand the cultural differences of our upbringing. This is something that should have been taken care of between the mother and father. This is all so truly sad. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firstandgoal Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 Any validity in the rumor that a deal is being worked for a trade of Peterson to the Dallas Cowboys? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coordi88 Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 Go where? Generalize a massive number of people? Oh, you mean people that strike their child so hard it leaves welts on them? I'm sure you can justify in your own mind why it's ok to do this. If you can't raise and discipline a child without resorting to violence, maybe you should put a bag on it with the mrs. You are doing the exact same thing by justifying your judgment of someone you know, relatively, nothing about. You can't go around thinking everyone is an mister. That actually makes you the mister. Or you could take the time to do some research and understand and empathize. Then you would actually not be a "lazy pos" by making a quick assumption and subsequent judgment. Just a little logical process for your hondaty circular argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 Didn't read through this all but going to add my 2 cents. Equating disciplining/spanking a child with "hitting" a child is inane and inflammatory. That is like saying somebody gorged himself out at the dinner table when he simply had a single bite. In addition I believe you are naive if you believe every child can be disciplined purely with rationalization and things like time out. Part of the problem in America today is that parents don't want to be parents and don't want to discipline their children. I'm going to count to three ... one, two, three ... okay I'm going to count to three again and this time I mean it ... one, two, three ... NOW I AM GOING TO REALLY MEAN IT. I am a staunch believer in corporal punishment. However, having said all that there is still a line that can't be crossed ... where corporal punishment turns into abuse. I do not know if AP crossed that line or not because I haven't looked into the case and am not up on the facts. But I think it would be a sad state of affairs if he did not cross the line and the government steps in to tell him how to raise his child. Children are not rational and do not listen to nor understand reason. They understand corporal punishment. I want my children to understand the negative consequences of their bad actions while those consequences are still small (a spanking) versus when they are large (jail). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jessay Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 Any validity in the rumor that a deal is being worked for a trade of Peterson to the Dallas Cowboys? AP has three years remaining in his contract with the Vikings he is going to be making 11.7 million this year and then 12.7 next year earning a 2.4 million signing bonus. With his age (29) and the fact that he is now in the prime earnings of his contract I do not see him leaving the VIkings anytime soon. Even with this drama it is proven that time heals all things look at Vick as a prime example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 AP has three years remaining in his contract with the Vikings he is going to be making 11.7 million this year and then 12.7 next year earning a 2.4 million signing bonus. With his age (29) and the fact that he is now in the prime earnings of his contract I do not see him leaving the VIkings anytime soon. Even with this drama it is proven that time heals all things look at Vick as a prime example. Forgiving/forgetting that somebody abused dogs is not the same as forgiving/forgetting that somebody abused a child. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTSuper7 Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 Your right, if your dog does something to get himself killed, you can always get another dog. Couldn't even read the rest of your post after this, my eyes rolled so hard. But I will admit that there wasn't any reason for me to include discipline dogs in my post. It only invited this kind of response. Here's food for thought: what is the goal of disciplining a child? We all seem to agree that children need discipline. Some think the most effective means (or at least, a acceptable means) of discipline is physical negative reinforcement (push your brother off of a bike and you'll get spanked with a switch). But isn't the goal to keep the kid from making the wrong choice next time (and each time thereafter)? So I'm curious... how does a child learn to not be disrespectful by hitting someone else when they, themselves, are hit as punishment? I'm sure the child learns to avoid the behavior which is the short term win, but does the child learn the appropriate skills for making the right choice when you aren't around to deliver said spanking? And for the record, I have two kids. One of my two is a significant challenge, and I have actually spanked that child as punishment on two occasions. It wasn't really that effective, at least not compared to other negative reinforcements. So maybe I didn't hit hard enough? Or long enough? But regardless, I sure did feel like garbage afterwards, that's for sure. Our family has core values that, to me, would be completely compromised with corporal punishment. I'm not going to preach respect for others, violence isn't the answer, etc. then turn around and be the world's biggest hypocrite when my kids won't listen. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenzal rhomb Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 Forgiving/forgetting that somebody abused dogs is not the same as forgiving/forgetting that somebody abused a child. Bullhonda, those dogs felt pain, they feel love etc. Its ridiculous for you to place ones suffering as more painful as another Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTSuper7 Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 Children are not rational and do not listen to nor understand reason. They understand corporal punishment. Perhaps at a very, very young age you can make blanket statements like this. Part of a parent's job is to help a child learn critical thinking skills and self control, and when a child makes a poor decision, it's the perfect teaching opportunity. And by all means, negative reinforcement is natural to include here - teaching that actions have consequences. I admittedly don't understand why the consequences have to involve physical harm. Perhaps with some children, they are so strong willed that it's the only way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BA Baracus Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 Forgiving/forgetting that somebody abused dogs is not the same as forgiving/forgetting that somebody abused a child. Vick didn't 'abuse' dogs. He drowned them and electrocuted them to death. Way more sick and trucked up than spanking your kid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenzal rhomb Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 Forgiving/forgetting that somebody abused dogs is not the same as forgiving/forgetting that somebody abused a child. Additionally, using you logic that the less evolved deserve worse treatment , then Rays wife had it coming coming and so did APS kid. They need to evolve so this sht doesn't happen to them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BA Baracus Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 Couldn't even read the rest of your post after this, my eyes rolled so hard. But I will admit that there wasn't any reason for me to include discipline dogs in my post. It only invited this kind of response. Here's food for thought: what is the goal of disciplining a child? We all seem to agree that children need discipline. Some think the most effective means (or at least, a acceptable means) of discipline is physical negative reinforcement (push your brother off of a bike and you'll get spanked with a switch). But isn't the goal to keep the kid from making the wrong choice next time (and each time thereafter)? So I'm curious... how does a child learn to not be disrespectful by hitting someone else when they, themselves, are hit as punishment? I'm sure the child learns to avoid the behavior which is the short term win, but does the child learn the appropriate skills for making the right choice when you aren't around to deliver said spanking? And for the record, I have two kids. One of my two is a significant challenge, and I have actually spanked that child as punishment on two occasions. It wasn't really that effective, at least not compared to other negative reinforcements. So maybe I didn't hit hard enough? Or long enough? But regardless, I sure did feel like garbage afterwards, that's for sure. Our family has core values that, to me, would be completely compromised with corporal punishment. I'm not going to preach respect for others, violence isn't the answer, etc. then turn around and be the world's biggest hypocrite when my kids won't listen. truckin a right man. 100% agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenzal rhomb Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 truckin a right man. 100% agree. Know how I learned not to touch a lit sparkler? Wasn't the guy saying don't touch that, it was the response to the pain of touching the lit sparkler. I;m not advocating abuse, but when youre too young to reason, adversion therapy is your best option Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenzal rhomb Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 One last thing - I have two dogs and each one learned to obey by treats and training collars. Oddly enough neither responded to logic and my explaining it to them during a time out 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'canes2004 Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 Or you could take the time to do some research and understand and empathize. Empathize with someone who beats their 4 year old with a switch so hard it leaves marks on their legs and defensive wounds on their arms? Seriously? I do not need to do research to know what child abuse is. Seems like the law agrees with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowboutthemCowboys Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 One last thing - I have two dogs and each one learned to obey by treats and training collars. Oddly enough neither responded to logic and my explaining it to them during a time out Damnit..I knew I should have got a traing collar for my kid. Jeebus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vexco Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 Yes, but hitting them with an object so hard that it leaves welts is. Is that so hard to figure out? Yes, it is hard to figure out. What's with everyone who's taking the high road and not condoning physical punishment being so condescending? You're against it, that's obvious. If you've never been hit with a switch then you're completely oblivious to how easy it is to leave a welt. It's almost impossible not to. The kid put his hands and arms in the way which is why he had marks there. It's not like he just went ape-honda and starting swinging at everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowboutthemCowboys Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 It's not like he just went ape-honda and starting swinging at everything. sorry, didn't know you were there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 Bullhonda, those dogs felt pain, they feel love etc. Its ridiculous for you to place ones suffering as more painful as another sorry, while I do not condone abusing animals, it is always worse to do it to humans. Surely you don't consider animals and humans to be equal - and if you say you do I expect you to tell me you are a vegan and do not use any animal byproducts at all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 Perhaps at a very, very young age you can make blanket statements like this. Part of a parent's job is to help a child learn critical thinking skills and self control, and when a child makes a poor decision, it's the perfect teaching opportunity. And by all means, negative reinforcement is natural to include here - teaching that actions have consequences. I admittedly don't understand why the consequences have to involve physical harm. Perhaps with some children, they are so strong willed that it's the only way? Not saying that all negative punishment has to be corporal or that it should even start there ... but corporal punishment should be one of the tools in a parent's tool kit. A little pain goes a long way to reinforcing the idea that some behaviors are undesireable. And again you are using inflammatory language when you say "physical harm" ... this term implies injury and if you are injuring your child you are over the line. Putting a sting in their but is not "physical harm". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vexco Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 sorry, didn't know you were there Or it's just a logical conclusion to come to after looking at the pictures and having done the same thing myself as a kid? Good call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 Couldn't even read the rest of your post after this, my eyes rolled so hard. But I will admit that there wasn't any reason for me to include discipline dogs in my post. It only invited this kind of response. Here's food for thought: what is the goal of disciplining a child? We all seem to agree that children need discipline. Some think the most effective means (or at least, a acceptable means) of discipline is physical negative reinforcement (push your brother off of a bike and you'll get spanked with a switch). But isn't the goal to keep the kid from making the wrong choice next time (and each time thereafter)? So I'm curious... how does a child learn to not be disrespectful by hitting someone else when they, themselves, are hit as punishment? I'm sure the child learns to avoid the behavior which is the short term win, but does the child learn the appropriate skills for making the right choice when you aren't around to deliver said spanking? And for the record, I have two kids. One of my two is a significant challenge, and I have actually spanked that child as punishment on two occasions. It wasn't really that effective, at least not compared to other negative reinforcements. So maybe I didn't hit hard enough? Or long enough? But regardless, I sure did feel like garbage afterwards, that's for sure. Our family has core values that, to me, would be completely compromised with corporal punishment. I'm not going to preach respect for others, violence isn't the answer, etc. then turn around and be the world's biggest hypocrite when my kids won't listen. What a tired old argument ... "how can you reach a child not to hit when you spank them?". Adults do lots of things children are not allowed to do ... are you saying that adults should refrain from every activity we consider undesirable for our children? So as adults we have to stopping doing things like having sex, drinking alcohol, driving a car, cooking on a hot stove, or any number of other behaviors? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikesVikes Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 If you hit a child and leave a mark, that is child abuse. A school teacher or a doctor would report it to the authorities if they have any suspicions. They will get in trouble if they don't report it. I remember when I was a kid that I got spanked a few times. One time my Dad asked me if he had to take his belt off? There were probably a few times when I didn't think that I had to go to bed at night. Gee I don't know do you want to take it off? Did I learn anything? Probably not. But in this case with AP, do you really want to teach a kid not to push his brother by whipping the crap out if him? You were violent so I will teach you not to be violent by being violent to you now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vexco Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 If you hit a child and leave a mark, that is child abuse. No, not really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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