stevegrab Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 I don't think the NFL really cares what the fans think and I don't think the rules are all that ambigous now. But people who've watched the game for years before this still have trouble understanding that failure to keep control when falling down IS NOT A CATCH. I think Captain Hook nailed it, the current rules are fine. I watch plenty of football (5-8 NFL games a week) I know whether it is a catch or not, and I'm usually right more often than the "rules expert" all the networks employ to give them advice. The problem is people don't like being wrong, they (fans, announcers, former refs working as rules experts, media, players, coaches) they think they know what is a catch and when they're told they're wrong they have a fit. It isn't broken and doesn't need to be fixed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 It is amazing how CaptainHook and stevegrab are so adept at interpreting the rules when the guys who are paid to do it can't consistently apply the rules. These two guys must really be on their game because every sports media outlet I have watched also has a problem figuring out what makes a catch a catch and an incomplete pass an incomplete pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilthorp Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 That was a fumble. 0 No it wasn't. He crossed the plain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 It is amazing how CaptainHook and stevegrab are so adept at interpreting the rules when the guys who are paid to do it can't consistently apply the rules. These two guys must really be on their game because every sports media outlet I have watched also has a problem figuring out what makes a catch a catch and an incomplete pass an incomplete pass. Please explain the bolded, how are the NFL refs not consistently applying the rules? The answer cannot be "because I don't agree with them". The NFL expert analysts don't really matter either, not even former refs paid by the networks to inject their OPINIONS into games. The rules have changed, and I feel I have a pretty good understanding of them. I may not always agree with the call, but in most cases it is something really close. I often see a play happen and say "that may not be a catch" while others might feel certain it is. Or they'll start reviewing it and I can see where there is some potential for it to be ruled not a catch. I guess you guys just want all subjectivity to be removed, and that will never be the case with humans as officials. All these posts "who knows what a catch is anymore" just sound like sour grapes from older fans (I'm 50 and have watched the NFL a lot for the last 30 years) that don't like that things have changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 I agree, most of the time, the refs or replay get it right. Complaining about it by fans is just the Flavor of the Month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 0 No it wasn't. He crossed the plain. Great Plains? Or Serengeti? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 (edited) Please explain the bolded, how are the NFL refs not consistently applying the rules? The answer cannot be "because I don't agree with them". The NFL expert analysts don't really matter either, not even former refs paid by the networks to inject their OPINIONS into games. The rules have changed, and I feel I have a pretty good understanding of them. I may not always agree with the call, but in most cases it is something really close. I often see a play happen and say "that may not be a catch" while others might feel certain it is. Or they'll start reviewing it and I can see where there is some potential for it to be ruled not a catch. I guess you guys just want all subjectivity to be removed, and that will never be the case with humans as officials. All these posts "who knows what a catch is anymore" just sound like sour grapes from older fans (I'm 50 and have watched the NFL a lot for the last 30 years) that don't like that things have changed. When I see two different plays that look the same to me where the resulting call on the field is different ... this is inconsistent. If you aren't seeing this inconsistency you aren't paying attention. And no, I will not spend the time finding all the inconsistencies because it is clear to me you will simply ignore them anyway. The whole sports world is complaining about this inconsistency ... well except for you and CaptainHook. Edited November 18, 2015 by Grits and Shins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BA Baracus Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 http://www.businessinsider.com/golden-tate-touchdown-shows-confusing-nfl-catch-rules-2015-10 That's a TD under the old 2 feet rule, but should have been an INT under current rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 Well Grits maybe what you see as the same isn't. As far as the whole sports world bitching about it BFD, they bitch about anything and everything becasue the lemmings of world listen to their nonsense 24/7. I don't watch a ton of highlights so maybe I miss some of the "controversial plays" and the hour long discussions by the talking heads. But as I said I do watch 5-8 NFL games every week (every game that is broadcast to me, plus 1-2 games on NFL replay). I don't feel there is a ton of inconsistency, and we've all been exposted to various parts of this "completing the catch" rule over the past few years. Sure the first time it was a big deal with Calvin not holding on to the TD I freaked out. But I've had time to adjust what I think is a catch, and I think many fans just refuse to adjust or accept that they cannot "make the call" themselves. I just think like CH said that its the popular thing to do. Like complaining about London games, Goodell ruining the game, the Pats cheating (or not) and so on. Do you freak out when there's holding and it isn't called, or PI and that isn't called (or cases when it is called but barely a hold or PI). Officials are part of sports, they are human and will bring an element of subjectivity with them. I've accepted that long ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BA Baracus Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 I strongly agree that the rule should be changed for there to not be any grey area. Control and 2 feet down simplifies everything and if you are worried about those bang-bang plays resulting in too many fumbles well that will just force the receivers to secure the ball anyway. Now would this be a catch? I don't know if you can count one nanosecond in between the 2nd foot being down and the ball getting knocked loose. Even with the clarified rule that Cowboyz proposed, that play would require a replay or two. Oldrules it's a TD. Currently it isn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BA Baracus Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 I almost feel the same way about fumbles. Hold on to the ball until the whistle blows period. That's football. If you don't it's a fumble. Plain and simple. Hold on to the frigin pigskin until the play is over if you want to maintain possession. But that's another discussion. That is actually the exact opposite of what you have been saying about making a catch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BA Baracus Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 0 No it wasn't. He crossed the plain. Plane I expected better from gilthorp... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BA Baracus Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 I like today's rules better than the old '2 feet' rule. I think that the application of the rules will improve with time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 That's a TD under the old 2 feet rule, but should have been an INT under current rules. Blandino on why that was a TD catch http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000559663/article/dean-blandino-on-why-golden-tate-play-ruled-a-td My eyes see the catch, 2 feet down, crossing into the EZ and a third foot almost down as the ball is coming lose. He isn't going to the ground, so those Dez/Calvin comparisons from 2014 playoffs are relevant. I'm also curious how much the opinion of Mike Periera is convincing you or others (media/fans) that this wasn't a TD catch but an INT? Because these guys are not current officials and some things have changed slightlty or become points of emphasis since they've left their job as an NFL official. Are they right and the officials on the field and those back at NFL HQ wrong? Why? I know refs are not perfect, so does the NFL. Heck they've admitted more about blown calls in the last 5 years than I remember in the 25 years prior (probably just more coverage now). I know some think I'm just a mouthpiece for the NFL or something based on discussions like this and some of the stuff with people hating on Goodell and me telling them their beef should be with the owners not some mouthpiece they hired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BA Baracus Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 Blandino on why that was a TD catch http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000559663/article/dean-blandino-on-why-golden-tate-play-ruled-a-td My eyes see the catch, 2 feet down, crossing into the EZ and a third foot almost down as the ball is coming lose. He isn't going to the ground, so those Dez/Calvin comparisons from 2014 playoffs are relevant. I'm also curious how much the opinion of Mike Periera is convincing you or others (media/fans) that this wasn't a TD catch but an INT? Because these guys are not current officials and some things have changed slightlty or become points of emphasis since they've left their job as an NFL official. Are they right and the officials on the field and those back at NFL HQ wrong? Why? I know refs are not perfect, so does the NFL. Heck they've admitted more about blown calls in the last 5 years than I remember in the 25 years prior (probably just more coverage now). I know some think I'm just a mouthpiece for the NFL or something based on discussions like this and some of the stuff with people hating on Goodell and me telling them their beef should be with the owners not some mouthpiece they hired. I didn't watch that game, didn't read anything, just watched the 2 clips at the link and that was my reaction. I will read what you linked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BA Baracus Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 My take on the Tate play is the defender had his hand on the ball. I don't think there was clear possession. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 My take on the Tate play is the defender had his hand on the ball. I don't think there was clear possession. Not trying to be argumentative but when I look real close (still frames of that slow mo video) I see both hands on the ball, then 2nd foot down, ball crosses plane (third foot coming down) and then the defender has his hand on the ball. Looked like possession and crossing into EZ before defender touched it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BA Baracus Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 I am on my phone going through airports, so maybe I'm not seeing it clearly, but it looked like the defender had his hand on the ball the whole time and that it might have even moved a little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilthorp Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 Crabtree looked to have a catch, two feet in bounds, third step out of bounds, then shoved and falls - drops ball. No catch. Seemed like a catch to me once his foot is out of bounds, play over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 Crabtree looked to have a catch, two feet in bounds, third step out of bounds, then shoved and falls - drops ball. No catch. Seemed like a catch to me once his foot is out of bounds, play over. If you go to the ground at all, you must maintain control. I really don't see what is so hard about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowboutthemCowboys Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 Crabtree looked to have a catch, two feet in bounds, third step out of bounds, then shoved and falls - drops ball. No catch. Seemed like a catch to me once his foot is out of bounds, play over. agree. Julio on the next to last play if the game was a catch for the 1st 40 yrs of my life. Meh... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 agree. Julio on the next to last play if the game was a catch for the 1st 40 yrs of my life. Meh... You cannot really think that was a catch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilthorp Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 Play over once the player is out of bounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowboutthemCowboys Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 You cannot really think that was a catch.in today's NFL..its not a catch. For the 1st however many decades I watched football..he controlled the ball, had 2 feet down n fumbled it out of bounds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 (edited) in today's NFL..its not a catch. For the 1st however many decades I watched football..he controlled the ball, had 2 feet down n fumbled it out of bounds You are an insane drunken toddler that wants fantasy points if you think that was a smoochieing complete pass. Edited November 23, 2015 by CaptainHook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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