Suns vs. Spurs

[detlef]

Suns have no dicipline, if they did they would have stayed put like the SA bench did. And as stated above Horry is no hack, dude has more skins on the wall than every sun combined. He was frustrated, will get suspended, but rules are rules. And so should those suns who left the bench. Period......

 

The next time you actually respond to the point made will be the first.

 

Did I make any mention what-so-ever about the whether they should be suspended?

 

Honestly, I was just trying to get you back on track. Something I should know better than to even bother with. The point is simply this: Unless the rule is examined, teams could realize from this incident that it can be exploited. Send some hack (NOT FREAKING HORRY OK? ARE YOU WITH ME DUMBASS?) to hardfoul a key player and see if you can draw someone off the bench.

 

Regardless, so can I take it from you response that you'd rather have Rbt Horry than both Diaw and Amare for the next game? Thanks, just checking.

[Sgt. Ryan]

The next time you actually respond to the point made will be the first.

 

Did I make any mention what-so-ever about the whether they should be suspended?

 

Honestly, I was just trying to get you back on track. Something I should know better than to even bother with. The point is simply this: Unless the rule is examined, teams could realize from this incident that it can be exploited. Send some hack (NOT FREAKING HORRY OK? ARE YOU WITH ME DUMBASS?) to hardfoul a key player and see if you can draw someone off the bench.

 

Regardless, so can I take it from you response that you'd rather have Rbt Horry than both Diaw and Amare for the next game? Thanks, just checking.

 

 

 

Horry acted out of frustration. Are you seriously suggesting Horry intentionally tried to lure the Phoenix players off their bench for suspension sake, for the next game. Surely you aren't suggesting that is what Horry did. So to keep you on subject, we are talking about what happened last night, not again with you, speculation on the rule. Jeez, are you always this ignorant, or do I just fluster you into incompetence.

 

And no one is saying Amare is less important to their team, than Horry is to his. What I am saying is Horry isnt a hack like someone else suggested, when he posted his frustration about his teams undisciplined behavior.

Edited May 15, 2007 by Sgt. Ryan

[detlef]

Horry acted out of frustration. Are you seriously suggesting Horry intentionally tried to lure the Phoenix players off their bench for suspension sake, for the next game. Surely you aren't suggesting that is what Horry did. So to keep you on subject, we are talking about what happened last night, not again with you, speculation on the rule. Jeez, are you always this ignorant, or do I just fluster you into incompetence.

 

And no one is saying Amare is less important to their team, than Horry is to his. What I am saying is Horry isnt a hack like someone else suggested, when he posted his frustration about his teams undisciplined behavior.

 

#1 If I typing slowly would help you understand this, I would. The issue at hand is this: Try to follow this please. Depending on what the ruling is, unscrupulous players could realize that a hard foul could cause important players from the other team to leave the bench. It's not like every single sports website hasn't pointed this out. This is not a reflection on Horry or his intention, simply an observation of how this situation could lead to exploitation of the rule. That is freaking it. End of freaking story

 

#2 You were the one that ran with the Horry is a hack business. Someone said what I just said (again) and you took that to imply that Horry was "Mr. Irrelevant". That, sir, has everything to do with the fact that you are a fragile little boy and nothing to do with anything else.

 

Now go be dishonorable like your buddy Boozer

[chiefjay]

Horry is a Veronica so is Manu and of course Bowen. Parker's not bad and I can deal with Timmay but he whines too much.

 

Oh yeah, I hate the Spurs for this type of cheap crap that Horry and Bowen pull, especially bowen.

[Shorttynaz]

Read into it what you want, but it was just reported on a LOCAL Phoenix radio show (620AM KTAR), that David Stern had planned on being at the Suns/Spurs game tomorrow, but he JUST cancelled his trip to Phoenix and obviously will not be in attendance.

Edited May 15, 2007 by Shorttynaz

[Sgt. Ryan]

#1 If I typing slowly would help you understand this, I would. The issue at hand is this: Try to follow this please. Depending on what the ruling is, unscrupulous players could realize that a hard foul could cause important players from the other team to leave the bench. It's not like every single sports website hasn't pointed this out. This is not a reflection on Horry or his intention, simply an observation of how this situation could lead to exploitation of the rule. That is freaking it. End of freaking story

 

#2 You were the one that ran with the Horry is a hack business. Someone said what I just said (again) and you took that to imply that Horry was "Mr. Irrelevant". That, sir, has everything to do with the fact that you are a fragile little boy and nothing to do with anything else.

 

Now go be dishonorable like your buddy Boozer

 

 

 

Your damn right I ran with the subject at hand, and not speculation on future clarifications of the rule. This post is about the series, and I stayed to the subject, not trying to say this rule or that rule needs to be looked at.

 

 

BTW, And this post was the reply to my post on the subject.

 

 

 

How can you say hardly Mr. Irrelevant? He's good for what?? Maybe 6-8 pts a game. 10 minutes off the bench? My point here is are the Spurs REALLY going to miss Robert Horry? Not at all. Even if STAT and Diaw dont get suspended. Michael Finley AND Brent Barry have been more clutch for the Spurs than Horry has.. Horry has hit some big time game ending shots, but he's missed quite a few as well.. He's not a starter for a reason.

 

My point is/was simply if these 2 Suns players do get suspended, look for more teams to abuse this rule in the same manner. So if Jalen Rose came into the game in the 3rd quarter and just outright leveled Tony Parker in game 5 or 6, and then walked away with his head held high like Horry did, the Spurs bench would just stand pat and watch but not come to Parker's defense??? It's natural to come to your boy's defense. I dont know. I am a Suns homer and I dont think that Stat did the right thing, but it would have been much different if he did get in the middle of Nash and Horry. Was he checking in? HA!! Good try bro.. It was rather funny on how quickly he answered that yesterday in his postgame press conference with such a straight face. Nice sell! Will it be bought?? I'm afraid not.

 

[Shorttynaz]

Per Phoenix local radio, they claim that per ESPN, Robert Horry gets a 2 game suspension, Stoudemire and Diaw BOTH get a 1 game suspension..

 

 

The league turned their head when Duncan stepped out on to the court when there was an altercation between James Jones and Elson in the 2nd quarter.

 

All I can say is WOW!!!!

 

Series over..

[Sgt. Ryan]

Per Phoenix local radio, they claim that per ESPN, Robert Horry gets a 2 game suspension, Stoudemire and Diaw BOTH get a 1 game suspension..

The league turned their head when Duncan stepped out on to the court when there was an altercation between James Jones and Elson in the 2nd quarter.

 

All I can say is WOW!!!!

 

Series over..

 

 

Not what anyone wanted, but clearly following the same path as before.

[Donutrun Jellies]

Duncan wont get suspended. He didnt leave the bench area.

 

The tape clearly shows him leaving the bench area to walk towards a possible altercation early in the game, crossing onto the court and over the 3 point line ...

 

But he won't get suspended.

[Shorttynaz]

Not what anyone wanted, but clearly following the same path as before.

 

I dont see it stopping here. It's going to get VERY ugly VERY soon.. They (league officials) had better do something soon!!!

 

It would be one thing if Nash had started this.. But he got punk'd. And then for his boys to come to his aide. Wow.. That's again all I can say.

[Shorttynaz]

Stoudemire, Diaw suspended 1 game; Horry 2

 

Associated Press

Posted: 2 minutes ago

 

 

 

PHOENIX (AP) - Phoenix center Amare Stoudemire and teammate Boris Diaw have been suspended for one game for leaving the bench after Robert Horry's hard foul of Steve Nash in Game 4 of the Suns' Western Conference semifinal against San Antonio, a person with knowledge of the penalty said Tuesday.

 

Horry was suspended for two games after knocking Nash into the scorer's table with 18 seconds remaining in the Suns' 104-98 victory in San Antonio Monday night that evened the best-of-seven series 2-2, said the person, who sought anonymity because the official announcement had not yet been made.

[detlef]

Whatever. Rules are rules, I suppose (though I didn't see the game and am quite curious about the Duncan issue if they're just following the letter of the law). None the less, it is unfortunate that follow up actions to a punk move on the part of the Spurs will give them a huge advantage in the series.

[Shorttynaz]

It was just stated that Tim Duncan is not being suspended cause there was no altercation. But if James Jones would have thrown a punch at Elson, then there would have been an altercation, and THEN Duncan would be suspended.

 

I mean what message does this send?? I REALIZE A RULE IS A RULE, but to what extent does this need to be enforced?? Robery Horry took a cheap shot at Nash, only then to have the Spurs get rewarded for his actions. And the NBA is worried about it's image??? What are you protraying???

 

I'm done venting..

Edited May 16, 2007 by Shorttynaz

[Sgt. Ryan]

Begging for a Duncan suspension on that is weak at best. If your the better team win games 6 and 7 with your team. No excuses. Terry got suspended last yr, and Dallas still found a way to win that series, game 7 on the Spurs court. This yr game 7 is in Phoenix, and Stoudamire and Co should be raring to go in game 6. They take care of that one, then they come home to finish it off.

 

 

But imo the Spurs are the better team, and would have won anyway, this just gives the Suns a built in excuse. I hate that. I wish both teams were at full strength, but this series is hardly over, even if SA wins game 5. And if it is, then the proof was in the pudding to begin with.

Edited May 16, 2007 by Sgt. Ryan

[Shorttynaz]

Begging for a Duncan suspension on that is weak at best.

 

That's the thing. Neither myself or the fans are "begging" but as stated by the league, "A rule is a rule". You enforce it for one play, but turn your head on another one. It's no different than calling a block on one end of the court, but on the other end on the EXACT same play, it's called a charge. Where's the consistency??

 

It's just unfortunate for the Suns. It's too bad that it has to go down this way, but the ruling has been dished out. Time to deal with it and get Pat Burke and Jalen Rose in there. Those guys are total difference makers!!

[Sgt. Ryan]

YOu need to watch the film again, Duncan didnt do what Stoudamire did. Wasnt even close. Its one thing to stand up in the bench area, and walk around that area, but its anther to spring towards the play like Stoudamire did.

[wildcat2334]

YOu need to watch the film again, Duncan didnt do what Stoudamire did. Wasnt even close. Its one thing to stand up in the bench area, and walk around that area, but its anther to spring towards the play like Stoudamire did.

 

 

 

Yer a complete an utter hypocrite. If Stu Jackson is enforing that a "rule is a rule" then TD and Bowen should be suspended end of story. They both left the bench in anticiaption of an altrercation- done, they crossed the line. The NBA wants to play this off as going by the letter of the rule- which it clearly is not. It still is coming down to a judeemnt call and it is total BS.

 

So evidently between Stern and Jackson- a rule is a rule, but they have the last say on what exacltt is an "alteraction". How can they come out with a str8 face saying it doesn't apply to TD & BB because there was no altercation? Stat & Diaw left the bench at the time of the foul before there was any altercation- they could have been running to see if Nash was ok.

 

It is garbage, plain and simple. There is going to be ALOT of flack across the country on this- because no matter what they say- it is still a judement on their part as evidenced by Duncan coming onto the floor. There really is no excuse for this subjectivity.

[Sgt. Ryan]

Yer a complete an utter hypocrite. If Stu Jackson is enforing that a "rule is a rule" then TD and Bowen should be suspended end of story. They both left the bench in anticiaption of an altrercation- done, they crossed the line. The NBA wants to play this off as going by the letter of the rule- which it clearly is not. It still is coming down to a judeemnt call and it is total BS.

 

So evidently between Stern and Jackson- a rule is a rule, but they have the last say on what exacltt is an "alteraction". How can they come out with a str8 face saying it doesn't apply to TD & BB because there was no altercation? Stat & Diaw left the bench at the time of the foul before there was any altercation- they could have been running to see if Nash was ok.

 

It is garbage, plain and simple. There is going to be ALOT of flack across the country on this- because no matter what they say- it is still a judement on their part as evidenced by Duncan coming onto the floor. There really is no excuse for this subjectivity.

 

 

 

Because the rule says if you leave the bench because of an altercation, you will be suspended the next game. Players come onto the floor all the time during a timeout, stop in play, etc. so no one is saying they cant leave a specific area when play has halted, just they cant go onto the floor for an altercation. Again, if you read the rule, you will see the difference.

 

 

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2007...tory?id=2871615

 

 

NBA suspends Stoudemire, Diaw for leaving benchESPN.com news services

 

 

 

 

Horry

Diaw

Stoudemire

PHOENIX -- The Suns lost two players for one game, and the Spurs lost one for two contests in the wake of a series of incidents in Game 4 of the Western Conference semifinal.

 

Phoenix All-Star center Amare Stoudemire and teammate Boris Diaw were suspended Tuesday for one game for leaving the bench after Robert Horry's flagrant foul of Steve Nash on Monday.

 

The NBA also announced Horry was suspended two games for his actions in the Suns' 104-98 victory at San Antonio on Monday night. Phoenix's victory evened the series at two games apiece.

 

All three players will miss Wednesday night's Game 5 in Phoenix of what has been a rough, intense showdown between two of the best teams in the NBA. Horry also will miss Friday night's Game 6 in San Antonio.

 

Horry was suspended for flagrantly fouling Nash with 18 seconds remaining and then striking Raja Bell about the shoulders with a forearm, NBA executive vice president Stu Jackson said in a statement. Stoudemire and Diaw were suspended for leaving "the immediate vicinity of their bench" during the altercation.

 

The penalties are a severe blow to a Phoenix team that had rallied in the final minutes to beat the Spurs in San Antonio.

 

"This is a very unfortunate circumstance," Jackson said during a conference call. "No one here at the league office wants to suspend players any game, much less a pivotal game in the second round of a playoff series. But the rule, however, is the rule, and we intend to apply it consistently."

 

Stoudemire, a first-team all-NBA selection, is averaging team highs of 23.5 points and 10.3 rebounds in the series. His loss removes the Suns' imposing inside presence. Phoenix's problems are compounded by the absence of Diaw, who started when Stoudemire missed all but three games last season because of surgeries on both knees.

 

Horry, meanwhile, is a role player best known for his clutch 3-pointers. He has scored 4.8 points per game.

 

"I feel it's terribly wrong," Suns owner Robert Sarver said. "I feel we've been unjustly penalized for the fact that we played a clean, hard game. I feel if any team should have been penalized in this series, it should be the Spurs and it shouldn't be us. I feel like I've just been punched in the gut."

 

Asked if he thought it was a fair decision, Jackson said, "It's not a matter of fairness, it's a matter of correctness, and this is the right decision at this point in time."

 

Jackson said it was clear that Stoudemire and Diaw had violated the rule, saying they were "20 to 25 feet" from their seats.

 

"Both players stood and made their way towards the altercation which occurred on the court," Jackson said. "They did not remain in the bench area."

 

The Suns' coaches quickly pushed the two players back to the bench, but the damage had been done, even though neither player reached the confrontation.

 

The suspensions deflate a Suns team that finished Game 4 with a 16-3 run to regain homecourt advantage.

 

"I think we had the momentum going," Sarver said, "and for Robert Horry to be rewarded like that to me is unbelievable. I can't see the justice in it, but it is what it is. We'll play hard and do the best we can."

 

Sarver said that seeking a change in the rule would be at the top of his agenda for next season.

 

"The team that plays dirty should not be rewarded, and the team that plays fair should not be penalized," he said.

 

Sarver wasn't counting his severely depleted team out.

 

"When you've got Nash and Raja and Kurt [Thomas] and Leandro [barbosa] on the court, you can't bet against them no matter what the odds are, but I just feel horrible about it," Sarver said. "The guys played so well last night. They were so gritty and they hung tough and they beat the Spurs at their own game.

 

"They won the type of game we wouldn't have won two years ago. It was a big step forward for us, a big step forward for the team and the organization."

 

Jackson brushed aside a suggestion that Tim Duncan violated the rule in the second quarter when he rushed onto the court after Francisco Elson dunked and landed on the shoulders of the Suns' James Jones.

 

"Both players got up," Jackson said. "There was no altercation, and they ran down to the other end of the court."

 

Jackson also wasn't buying Stoudemire's contention he had a right to be at the scorer's table because he was checking in to the game.

 

"I've not seen a player report in quite that way," Jackson said.

 

The suspensions are the latest twist in an intriguing series that's featured several rough plays.

 

Nash has received the brunt of it. He missed a critical portion of the final minute of Game 1 because of a bloody gash in his nose, the result of a head-on collision with Tony Parker.

 

After Game 2, Stoudemire called the Spurs "a dirty team," specifically mentioning Bruce Bowen and Manu Ginobili.

 

In Game 3, Bowen kneed Nash in the groin, but the NBA decided no suspension was warranted.

 

After he went back to the bench following Horry's foul, Stoudemire chose to rub it in.

 

He turned to the Spurs crowd and chanted "Dirty, dirty, dirty."

 

"Can I get a 'dirty' now?" Stoudemire shouted. "Now, was I out of line?"

 

Before Chicago took on Detroit in their Game 5 on Tuesday, Bulls coach Scott Skiles weighted in on the suspensions.

 

"A rule is a rule, and in the past handful of years since they put that in, there have been I think less than five, maybe less than three, but there have been a couple occasions where someone just put one foot on the floor and got suspended. So if you're going to have a hard and fast rule like that, I think you've got to abide by it, and you can't make any exceptions," Skiles said.

 

Information from The Associated Press was used in this

[Sgt. Ryan]

Also Horry pushed Nash with his shoulder, as Nash was trying to go around him. That looked like a flop to me by Nash, and I love the guy. His momentum was definately carrying him towards the sideline, when he was bumped. But this wasnt Horry trying to injure Nash. And at worst was a hard NBA foul, though one could argue it was flagarant. Either way, he shouldnt have gotten 2 games for that. No freakin way.

[wildcat2334]

I know the rule. Technically Stat & Diaw- left the bench no one is arguing that. BUT they also left the bench at the time of the FOUL- not after any altercation bewtween Bell & Horry- There was no altercation between Nash & Horry- it was a hard hip check and there was no altercation at that point.

 

Gimme a break- Stern makes judgement calls on the freakin time in his league- both players showed temendous restraint and retreated to the bench- this is the playoffs and Stern had the chance to do the right thing- and he didn't.

 

It is effing bullchit on so many levels. The rule, the enforcing of the rule, and the intent are all way off base.

[Sgt. Ryan]

I wish all players were playing, but I completely agree with the ruling. NO way you can nto give those 2 a free pass for doing what they are told not to do, or they will get a game. Its that simple.

 

 

And Nash went after Horry afterwards and could have got got a game himself. Watch the video on ESPN.com again. Its pretty clear.

[polksalet]

Does Bell now start at center for the suns or will they sign Joe Kleine?

[Shorttynaz]

Also Horry pushed Nash with his shoulder, as Nash was trying to go around him. That looked like a flop to me by Nash, and I love the guy. His momentum was definately carrying him towards the sideline, when he was bumped. But this wasnt Horry trying to injure Nash. And at worst was a hard NBA foul, though one could argue it was flagarant. Either way, he shouldnt have gotten 2 games for that. No freakin way.

 

There were 2 infractions against Horry. He got 1 for the flagrant foul on Nash, and he got another for throwing an elbow at Raja Bell

[Sgt. Ryan]

There were 2 infractions against Horry. He got 1 for the flagrant foul on Nash, and he got another for throwing an elbow at Raja Bell

 

 

Bell came at him. Had bell not, that wouldnt have happened. IF someone comes at me, they are getting more than an elbow. Besides, Bell was a dirty player even as a Maverick. He gets what he deserves.

[montster]

Bell came at him. Had bell not, that wouldnt have happened. IF someone comes at me, they are getting more than an elbow. Besides, Bell was a dirty player even as a Maverick. He gets what he deserves.

 

 

what the hell is your point? yeah, if horry hadn't flattened nash, then the stoudemire and diaw suspensions wouldn't have happened, either. so either you think bell should have been suspended, too (which is fine if you think that), or you think horry shouldn't be punished for retaliating against bell (which would be completely hypocritical).