loaf Posted December 5, 2004 Share Posted December 5, 2004 So this season we went to 12 teams. 3 divisions of 4. Top 2 division winners get byes and 3rd division winner plays 6th. Playoffs start next week. Now we'll probably end up with 3 teams tying with the same record. Team A (2nd most points) played Team B (third most points) twice and split (same division) Team C (most points) Played Team A and lost but never played Team B our rules state: 4. 6 Teams make the Playoffs. The 3 Division Winners and 3 Wildcards. 5. Wildcards are decided by a. Best Record b. if two teams tie for best record than it goes to head to head Record between those two teams. c. if those two teams haven't played during the Regular Season, then it goes to the Team with the most points scored on the Year. So I'm trying to determine if Team B is SOL and Team A is in the Playoffs by virtue of his beating Team C? Even though Team B never played Team C? Thanks... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ts Posted December 5, 2004 Share Posted December 5, 2004 Clearly a hole in the tie-breaker rules, not allowing for the possibility of a three-way (or more) tie, but you know that already ... no matter how you try to close that hole for this year, someone will be unhappy, but I'd suggest falling back on tie-breaker "c": if those two teams haven't played during the Regular Season, then it goes to the Team with the most points scored on the Year. Seems to me that "c" is the rule that most closely applies to this situation, since not all of the three teams involved played one another. A case could be made that based on 3-way head to head play, A (2-1) followed by B (1-1) should be in, leaving C (0-1) out in the cold, but with a differing number of H2H games being played by all 3 teams, this seems the least equitable path to take. Just my $0.02 for the day. Good luck sorting it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelBunz Posted December 5, 2004 Share Posted December 5, 2004 (edited) Ditto TS.....clearly you need separate tie-breaker rules to determine divisional winners, wildcard winners....AND a tiebreaker for seeding purposes. Also...as distasteful as it sounds....next year you could go to a 14-week regular season, ensuring every team plays each other once and division foes twice. But that means you play the SB in week 17. OR.....you can pick one week (preferably a non-bye week) to play a doubleheader, thus eliminating the hole in scheduling. Again....this doesn't help you this year......I understand. Just curious.....are these three of the possible wildcards? Which seeds or winners do you already have of the 6 playoff-bound? Shoot us a link loaf. Edited December 5, 2004 by SteelBunz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big John Posted December 5, 2004 Share Posted December 5, 2004 My take is if head to head is not on an even basis on more than 2 teams, it should not apply, so i am with ts that "c" should apply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loaf Posted December 6, 2004 Author Share Posted December 6, 2004 Thanks, can't really supply a link as it is a CBS league and you'd need user name and password... anyways, these three teams are shooting for the 6 Seed... Anyone have an idea how to close this loophole for next year without going to double headers? There's gotta be some 12 Team Leagues out there that play 13 weeks and have 3 Weeks of Playoffs? Right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ts Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 Try this site for some ideas on tweaking your schedule for next year: Schedules Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loaf Posted December 6, 2004 Author Share Posted December 6, 2004 (edited) Try this site for some ideas on tweaking your schedule for next year:Schedules 594556[/snapback] I used them. paid the money and all. don't remember where I stuck the *** thing though... edit: and if I remember right, there wasn't any tiebreaker help. Just the schedule... I also used www.fflpros.com and they custom built one for me. Still, no help on the tiebreakers...thanks though... Edited December 6, 2004 by loaf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squeegiebo Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 I agree with those above: gotta go with total points as it is the only way to fairly compare these three teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelBunz Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 (edited) Thanks, can't really supply a link as it is a CBS league and you'd need user name and password... anyways, these three teams are shooting for the 6 Seed... Anyone have an idea how to close this loophole for next year without going to double headers? There's gotta be some 12 Team Leagues out there that play 13 weeks and have 3 Weeks of Playoffs? Right? 594543[/snapback] Since they are all three going for one wildcard.....I'd say just go by total points. I say this reluctantly....because I'm not a believer in total points as anything but a last resort in tie-breakers. I know.....I know......I'm in a minority. But my point has always been.....you play one match at a time to come up with your overall record....points across the board have no meaning. A win is a win.....whether it's 9-6.....or 54-49. I know this isn't the NFL.....lol....it's FF. But nowhere in the NFL do they use "total points scored" to determine a playoff contender. I think it has it's place......just NOT as the 1st or 2nd or even 3rd tiebreaker. At any rate......next year....for divisional foes, I like overall record (of course).....then HTH...THEN divisional record.....THEN points scored against teams you are tied with.......then overall points. So...two teams in the division could have the same record....same HTH (split).....and same divisional record....the tie is between THEM (points scored against each other)....not the points they score overall. (That's just my logic for determining divisional winners......most don't seem to agree here.) If still tied after all that.....then use the total points for the season. Then.....for determining wildcards across divisions (since with 3 divisions you don't have conferences)....throw out HTH....and just go with overall record.....then total points scored. Very unlikely total points will tie. Throw in a dice roll just in case. Edited December 6, 2004 by SteelBunz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squeegiebo Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 I know.....I know......I'm in a minority. But my point has always been.....you play one match at a time to come up with your overall record....points across the board have no meaning. A win is a win.....whether it's 9-6.....or 54-49. I know this isn't the NFL.....lol....it's FF. But nowhere in the NFL do they use "total points scored" to determine a playoff contender. 594598[/snapback] Perhaps that is because in the NFL, one team has the opportunity to stop the other teams opponents from scoring. Not the case in FF. Total points has a legitimacy in FF that does not exist in the NFL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelBunz Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 Perhaps that is because in the NFL, one team has the opportunity to stop the other teams opponents from scoring. Not the case in FF. Total points has a legitimacy in FF that does not exist in the NFL. 594617[/snapback] That could be the case Squeegie.....but I have another theory....I'll tell you about it sometime....lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Smales Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 Thanks, can't really supply a link as it is a CBS league and you'd need user name and password... anyways, these three teams are shooting for the 6 Seed... Anyone have an idea how to close this loophole for next year without going to double headers? There's gotta be some 12 Team Leagues out there that play 13 weeks and have 3 Weeks of Playoffs? Right? 594543[/snapback] We have a 12 team 3 division league with playoffs in weeks 14-16. Each team playes thier division foes twice and all but one team once. Out tiebreakers are H2H record, then either division record (If teams are in same division), or W-L-T percentage against common opponents (since not all teams play everyone once), then total points. We had this issue last year and had to close up the loophole as well. We had a note in the rules that the tiebreakers used are interpreted the same way the NFL does. What this means is if you use H2H as a tiebreaker, the only way one team would win that is if they had a 1.000 winning percentage against all tied teams. This being the case you would go to Tiebreaker C total points and looks like Team B loses out. Good luck and don't forget to update your rules for next year!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loaf Posted December 6, 2004 Author Share Posted December 6, 2004 So I have to decide the Intra-Divisional winner first then the guy in the other Division goes for the tiebreaker? Seems like the lonely guy gets a bye into the wildcard tiebreaker scenario...If anyone has an idea on how to close this gap, I'd really appreciate it... Steel, thanks for the suggestion. I've copied and emailed it to myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Love Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 If you want to avoid this next year, make total points scored your first tiebreaker after overall record. It avoids this type of mess, is usually decisive, and really is the best way to measure how good a team is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squeegiebo Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 That could be the case Squeegie.....but I have another theory....I'll tell you about it sometime....lol. 594642[/snapback] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelBunz Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 (edited) So I have to decide the Intra-Divisional winner first then the guy in the other Division goes for the tiebreaker? Seems like the lonely guy gets a bye into the wildcard tiebreaker scenario...If anyone has an idea on how to close this gap, I'd really appreciate it... Steel, thanks for the suggestion. I've copied and emailed it to myself. 594655[/snapback] Sure loaf. Hannibals is the only league I play in where divisional winners don't mean anything.....lol. 12 teams.....split into 4 divisions. They simply take the top 6 records for the playoffs (one twist....if the overall points winner is NOT top 6....that owner gets an automatic 6th seed in playoffs). **BTW....that would help you immensely next year.....to reorganize into 4 divisions of 3 teams and all in 2 conferences. Playing your 2 division foes twice equals 4 games.....leaving 9 games left to play everyone else once. Then....take 4 divisional winners....and one wildcard from each conference for the playoffs. That way you keep your Weeks 14-16 playoff schedule. Most 12-team/3-division leagues I'm in have only 4 teams to the playoffs....no bye weeks....2-week playoff in weeks 15 and 16. Edited December 6, 2004 by SteelBunz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 Loaf - I think I have a very similar problem. Three or even four way tie for 6th and final playoff spot, and no provision for a three way head to head tie breaker. I do have four more levels of tie breaker after that, though. I'm gonna use some logic to fix my issue, I'll post here when the dust settles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loaf Posted December 6, 2004 Author Share Posted December 6, 2004 Loaf - I think I have a very similar problem. Three or even four way tie for 6th and final playoff spot, and no provision for a three way head to head tie breaker. I do have four more levels of tie breaker after that, though. I'm gonna use some logic to fix my issue, I'll post here when the dust settles. 594698[/snapback] thanks. I really appreciate it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.