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iceman717

Heisman

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McSooner I'm sorry for being rude to you. When you call me out and claim I missed your point, then proceed to make the exact same point a second time, even though the argument has been shown to be fallacious, it makes me scratch my head. :confused:

 

I'll try to be more respectful in the future. cool_thu

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fish-boy:

Sorry man I LOVE my Sooners but White is not the best PLAYER in Div-1 College Ball...He's just not   :D  He's just on the best team!!!!!!!!!

 

 

GO SOONERS BEAT THE H E L L OUT OF USC

WOW - A sooner fan with common sense and objectivity. Your post is an island of logic and intelligence in the middle of the moronic sooner sea! Kudos to you Fish-boy!

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As for you, Ryan, I happen to be in a good mood today, so I'm going to forgive your delusions of grandeur.

 

For future reference, however, I would point out that if your objective is to make me (or anyone else) look like a fool, or "school" them:

* Changing the subject (as you did earlier by bringing up Wisconsin, Stoops, OU, etc. etc.) is a copout.

* Calling people names and running your potty mouth is lame. That's 4th grade stuff man.

* Coming out and saying "I schooled you" or "I made you look like a fool" doesn't make it so. If it was true, you wouldn't need to say it.

 

When you resort to those tactics, it's painfully obvious that you're losing the debate. And I (for one) am going to continue to call you on it.

 

Instead, you really need to work on constructing a cohesive and well-reasoned argument, supported by facts, that speaks to the issue at hand.

 

Oh and as for your comment about my alleged "argumentative personality"? Mighty hypocritical there my friend.

 

Have a nice day.

 

... now back to your regularly-scheduled Heisman discussion ...

 

(For the record, I anticipate it will be a tossup between White and Fitzgerald. Personally I'd give it to Fitzgerald, but I don't have a vote. A lot will depend on how Fitzgerald fares on Saturday vs. Miami in prime time. Finally, if White wins, it will not be because of his QB efficiency rating, it will be because he's the best player on the best team.)

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How about the guy who has taken OU back to the national championship... I mean, they have the same team as last year, exept he is the starting quarterback, and they are just absolutley destroying everyone.

1.Jason White

2.Chris Perry

3.Eli Manning

4.Larry Fitzgerald

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fish-boy, please tell me your not serious with comparing offenses... Of Course Symons is going to throw for more yards than OU... Its their Offense... You cant compare stats alone. Tech has the most wheels off offense in football... Stats are not the only thing that matters here. Oh yeah, why doesnt White have a shot in the NFL and Symons does? Symons will go no farther than Kliff Kingsbury did...

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I think the rhetorical question posed by fish-boy is, how well would he have done (relative to White), and where would OU be, if Symons was the Sooners' QB instead of White?

 

And on the flipside, what would White's stats look like if he were in Symons' shoes at Texas Tech?

 

He wasn't trying to compare the offenses themselves, but rather how Symons and White would perform in each situation, relative to one another.

 

If you conclude that Symons would have done just as well as White, had he been OU's QB instead, and/or that White's numbers playing for Texas Tech would not be any more gaudy than Symons', then that would seem to diminish White's case for the Heisman. (And you can do the same assessment plugging in Manning, Rivers, Leinhart, etc. etc.)

 

BTW I'm not taking that position, just clarifying the question. My opinion is that White is the most deserving QB out there, but that Larry Fitzgerald is the best college football player in the nation this season.

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I agree Dave - pulling for Fitz but think White will get it, and voting closes Dec. 10. Also, Leinart should get an invite to NYC for the ceremony along with White, Fitz, Perry and (either) EliM or BJ.

 

If White wins it, let's see if he can avoid the "Heisman Bowl Game Curse" like Palmer did last year....

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Sgt. Ryan:

The RB out of VaTech Jones in my opinion is the best player in college. I think he would put up hte same numbers regardless of where he played.

 

 

As for the Fitzgerald argumentIll add this. Move Mike Williams or Roy Williams to Pitt and move Fitzgerald to USC or Texas.  I believe both Williams would put up duplicate stats in that offense as Fitzgerald.  And Fitzgerald Id say wouldnt improve much on either Williams scenerio.

 

 

I just dont think hes the best WR.  If you have watched Mark Claytons YAC you would agree he is one of the best Wrs in college.  He consistantly takes a 10 yard slant and takes it 40+ to the house almost every game.  He also shares the spotlight with Brandon Jones so he isnt the only target on OUs offense.  Pitt doesnt have another WR to the calibur of Jones, Clayton, or Fitzgerald on its roster.  Fitzgerald gets doubled alot, but also gets twice as many balls thrown his way as a result means more receptions.  Pitt also throws a ton in the red zone.  OU, Texas and USC run it when they get down there instead.  

 

Im not saying Fitzgerald is not a great player. But I dont think hes even the best WR in the country.  Fitzgeralds numbers are no different than Symons when you look at the system and what players benefit the most from their system.

Please tell me you are not serious. Please tell me the only reason you made this asinine post was so that you could "plug" OU and their players again. I have tried to not directly confront any of your posts, because I honestly believe people are entitled to their opinion (however delusional they may be). But wow, this post takes the cake. What color is the sky in your world?

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Ryan --

 

Let's explore your "it's the system" argument against Larry Fitzgerald, by examining how well current Dallas Cowboy Antonio Bryant performed in the same Pitt system from 1999 to 2001.

 

2001

RECEIVING GP No. Yds Avg TD Long Avg/G

-------------------------------------------------

BRYANT, Antonio 10 42 659 15.7 9 45 65.9

 

2000

RECEIVING GP No. Yds Avg TD Long Avg/G

-------------------------------------------------

BRYANT, Antonio 10 68 1302 19.1 11 84 130.2

 

1999

RECEIVING G No. Yds Avg TD Long Avg/G

--------------------------------------------------

BRYANT, Antonio 11 51 844 16.5 6 44 76.7

 

Here is Larry Fitzgerald this season:

RECEIVING GP No. Yds Avg TD Long Avg/G

-------------------------------------------------

FITZGERALD,L. 11 84 1569 18.7 21 58 142.6

 

Bryant had one season with >1000 yards and >10 TDs. You'd think a future 31st overall draft pick would post better numbers than this in such an explosive system at Pitt's, wouldn't you?

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Guest aqualung

Pitt fan here.

 

dave, I can't agree that they have the same offense. Bryant had Barlow for 3 years to help him. Pitt has had absolutely no running game this year until last week when Brandon Miree finally came back from injury. This is what is so impressive about Fitzgerald. He is double and triple covered every down because of the non existent running game and still keeps rolling up 100 yard games.

 

Getting back to the Heisman though, I don't think he has a chance to win it. They have 3 losses already and still have to play Miami this week. Being a sophmore hurts his chances also.

 

I'm just glad he's on the team I root for. He sure is a pleasure it watch.

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Sgt. Ryan:

We can argue till we are blue in the face.

Okay.

 

Sgt. Ryan:

There is no question White deserves this award.  Hes the best player on the best team, and the reason this team is undefeated and not 10-2 like last yr.

I'd respectfully submit that it would be more accurate to say that Nate Hybl was the reason you guys weren't 12-0 last year, than it is to say that Jason White is the reason you guys are 12-0 this year. C'mon, those are pretty pedestrian numbers for a team with all those weapons. Just because White is head-and-shoulders better than last year's average-to-sucky QB, that alone doesn't make him Heisman-worthy. By that logic, White would be considered the greatest QB of all time if only I had been under center for the Sooners last year.

 

If you want to argue that Antonio Bryant was no more than an average collegiate WR, and that's what makes Fitzgerald seem so great, then be my guest.

 

The whole "best player on the best team" rationale really doesn't hold water with me (although to be certain, some voters will buy into this thinking). I don't think how good the team a kid plays for has anything to do with whether or not he's the best player in the country. After all, if that's what mattered, then all the finalists may as well be Sooners, since there's no disagreement that OU's the best team.

 

BTW I loved the line, "that's a long pass." Nice.

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Dave, you can take your apology and shove it straight up your a$$. If I posted that the sky was blue, you'd yip back that I was somehow inferior and just didn't know what I was talking about. Sorry Napolean, I'm not playing your game. Like I said to another poster, I you would like to talk football, fine. Drop the BS and let's do it. If you want to argue just for the sake of argueing, do it by yourself.

 

As of right now, you no longer exsist.

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McSooner:

Dave, you can take your apology and shove it straight up your a$$.  If I posted that the sky was blue, you'd yip back that I was somehow inferior and just didn't know what I was talking about.  Sorry Napolean, I'm not playing your game.  Like I said to another poster, I you would like to talk football, fine.  Drop the BS and let's do it.  If you want to argue just for the sake of argueing, do it by yourself.

 

As of right now, you no longer exsist.

You've got to be kidding me with this. The whole point of this board is to argue college football. Post here, and expect to have your opinions critiqued, predictions rebutted, and theories picked apart, if not by me than by any of the other dozens of regulars here. That's what makes it entertaining!

 

The irony is, it's the attitude you and the other OU homers bring that make it as contentious and adversarial as it is around here. I don't have a problem with that, but you've got to admit, you dish out more than your fair share of smack, so you should be able to take some, too. (Just today I notice you're back at it with the "Wisconsin" taunt to the OSU guy.)

 

That said, if instead of arguing, what you'd prefer is back-slapping and high-fiving with other OU fans, then I'm sure there are plenty of Sooner boards around. There the sky can be whatever color you want it to be, and nobody's gonna tell you different.

 

Sheesh.

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I believe Fitzgerald will win it by a landslide you Dumba$$es. A QB's job is to throw the FU----- ball. Who is the last Heismann winning QB to do well in the pros?????????????????????????????? ???

I didn't think you had an answer!! FUC? QB's & give it to the rightful owners, the real studs, The RB's, WR's & High impact Defensive players!!

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Despite what the homers on either side say, the Heisman race is still up for grabs, and IMO tonight's game is going to have a huge impact on the outcome. If Fitzgerald blows up for 150 and 2 scores, and Pitt beats Miami in prime time, he'll win over the voters still on the fence. If he has a quiet game and Miami cruises, then advantage White.

 

In either case, it makes tonight's game that much more intriguing!

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Sgt. Ryan

the Lil 10 as a whole is a weak conference.  

The Sporting News ranked the conferences and, in order, they were 1)SEC; 2)Big Ten; 3)Big 12 (with the comment "aside from Oklahoma, does any team really scare you? And please don't say 'Texas'").

 

Just an opinion that's maybe slightly less biased than your own (and mine, to be fair).

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I agree that you can stick a fork in Fitzgerald after tonight's stinker.

 

I was glad the kid was able to extend his TD streak though.

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True, White will win it. But Leinart deserves to be sitting there in his nice suit, along with CPerry, Fitzgerald, and Eli....

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fish-boy:

 

Would White have put up the same numbers that BJ did if White was the starter for Tech????And playing catch-up all the time.

[/b]

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM I GUESS NOT.... being that He's play catch-up in the BigXII Championship game, and hes sucking wind!!!!!!! And further more no one held to Tech to Less than 21 pts and that was NC State not OU!!!!

 

Guess all questions are answered now!!!!!

 

I just hope OU still gets a Sugar Bowl Bid.

 

IMHO when White got hit and hurt his elbow Thompson should have came in, KSU is blitzing and White can't RUN and he's no Marino......

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Sgt. Ryan:

Jason White will win it and it wont be close.

I reckon not. jester

 

After the KState performance, it'll be close and White may well have blown it altogether. Add in Fitz's last performance and Perry might get a close look.

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CAN WE PLEEEEEEEEEAAASE STOP WITH THE JASON WHITE B.S. WITH THE HEISMAN NOW. HE NO LONGER PLAYS FOR THE BEST TEAM - AND PERSONALLY, HE REALLY SHOULDN'T EVEN BE ONE OF THE TOP 3 CONTENDERS.

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