Chavez Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 When the Head Coach gives you the pieces of the puzzle, a successful OC puts the square peg in the square hole and he puts the round peg in the round hole. Now if as an OC, you try and put the square peg in the round hole, or vice versa and you do it often enough, you will not be the OC for long No dispute there. and until you prove at another level on another team that you have learned to successfully implement the Head Coaches grand design, you will probably not find your services in much demand. By extension, the OC is only executing the Head Coaches offensive plan. 915223[/snapback] In SOME cases, yes - if, say, Holmgren, Shanny, or Martz employ an OC, the offense is probably VERY much the head coach's baby. In other cases, a head coach may hire an OC who he is comfortable with philosophically but is willing to let him do his thing. Dick Jauron (not a sterling head coach, but a good example of this) had Gary Crowton and John Shoop as OCs, and they pretty much appeared to have carte blanche with the offense. Tom Moore in Indy outlasted Jim Mora and the conservative Tony Dungy has done little to reign him in. I'm interested to see how Norm Chow "conforms" to Jeff Fisher in Tennessee. Etc etc. Now, even if Jimmy and co had more pull with Norv than I thought, the fact is that the trend of productive RBs has followed him from the Rams to Dallas to Washington to Miami and San Diego, regardless of the relative talent and pedigree of the backs (obviously you don't run for 1300 yds and double-digit tds by being a slow turd). Lamont Jordan is going to be another round peg in a round hole. I certainly don't think Norv Turner is pigheadedly inflexible, but it would appear he DOES have an idea of what he wants to do offensively, and Jordan is one of his pieces to accomplish that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jo Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 Last year was Porter's first year as a starting WR. For the first time in his brief career, he was constantly double covered, had a QB change a quarter of the way through the season and came up a whopping 2 yards shy of 1,000 yard season. It's also extremely difficult to catch a TD when the ball isn't being thrown your way in the end zone.But other than that....yeah....he's overrated. 915235[/snapback] Actually, I believe he started 10 games in 2003 and more than that in 2002 if you count the games the Raiders opened up 3 WR as a start. This is his 6th year in the league and he hasn't broken 1000 yards yet and has only gotten near it once. That's a great WR? He's no longer the #1 option, so what makes you think he won't revert back to the form of years prior? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 prepare for another 3-4 page thread on Jordan 915194[/snapback] More of a 3-4 page thread on Norv Turner's offensive philosophy and how it will impact the fantasy value of Raider players, specifically Crockett, Jordan, and Moss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 Actually, I believe he started 10 games in 2003 and more than that in 2002 if you count the games the Raiders opened up 3 WR as a start. This is his 6th year in the league and he hasn't broken 1000 yards yet and has only gotten near it once. That's a great WR? He's no longer the #1 option, so what makes you think he won't revert back to the form of years prior? 915241[/snapback] because he'll be 2nd in the progression instead of 1st or 3rd....which will lead to basically never being double covered...plus having R Moss on the opposite side..... that's enough to me...but now he has a beat hammy and I am staying away from that, although I am trying to see what type of condition Curry is in... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 More of a 3-4 page thread on Norv Turner's offensive philosophy and how it will impact the fantasy value of Raider players, specifically Crockett, Jordan, and Moss. 915243[/snapback] :doah: ok...fine....fine...it's still going to be a 3-4 page thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 Regarding Porter, I went into a season and drafted a bunch of #2s from productive offenses. That season taught me it's better to have a middling #1 than just about any #2 option (there are exceptions like there are to ANY rule, but I try to stick by that for the most part). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jo Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 because he'll be 2nd in the progression instead of 1st or 3rd....which will lead to basically never being double covered...plus having R Moss on the opposite side..... that's enough to me...but now he has a beat hammy and I am staying away from that, although I am trying to see what type of condition Curry is in... 915245[/snapback] Yes, but he'll have that many less balls thrown at him. I'll never be convinced that any WR is better off as a #2 than a #1 and he's no different. I'd bet he doesn't match the yards or TD output from last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 Yes, but he'll have that many less balls thrown at him. I'll never be convinced that any WR is better off as a #2 than a #1 and he's no different. I'd bet he doesn't match the yards or TD output from last year. 915250[/snapback] Peerless price... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jo Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 (edited) Peerless price... 915252[/snapback] Ok, that's a pretty good counter, though its not a direct comparison since he changed teams and systems in the process. Exception to the rule I think. Edit: I didn't mean to get this thread started on Porter, sorry...the point of my original post is that I'm not worried about Jordan's TDs. Edited August 7, 2005 by Jo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 Ok, that's a pretty good counter, though its not a direct comparison since he changed teams and systems in the process. Exception to the rule I think. 915261[/snapback] true, but had a new HC and QB...plus the 2 WR's that were with him were gone...so it could be somewhere in the league ...I just don't think Porter is someone who could handle being "the guy" to make plays down the field....he's more of a better compliment to a stud....especially if they have even a glimmer of hope at a ground game...which Jordan will at least be... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Score 1 Posted August 7, 2005 Author Share Posted August 7, 2005 Actually, I believe he started 10 games in 2003 and more than that in 2002 if you count the games the Raiders opened up 3 WR as a start. This is his 6th year in the league and he hasn't broken 1000 yards yet and has only gotten near it once. That's a great WR? He's no longer the #1 option, so what makes you think he won't revert back to the form of years prior?915241[/snapback] A cut & paste from the now infamous thread Porter v. Burleson, Which do you take? In 2000, Porter's 1st year in the NFL, he only played in 12 games, starting none at the WR position and what little action he did see as a WR, it was in the slot. (Brown & Jett ahead of him) 2001 Porter garnered slightly more playing time, appearing in 15 games, but only ended up starting in one as a WR and that one start was again in the slot. (Brown & Rice ahead of him) 2002 is the year Porter began to really show his talent. He appeared in all 16 games that year, starting 14 while filling the the WR slot position and posting solid #'s - 51 recpts for 688 yds with a 13.5 avg and 9 Td's. (Brown & Rice ahead of him) 2003 Porter suffered a set back. Porter was initially diagnosed as having an abdominal strain, which as it turns out, was a mis-diagnosis by the Raiders medical staff. A second opinion revealed his injury to actually be a Sports Hernia which he ended up requiring surgery. He did appear in 10 games, but only started one and wasn't truly healthy in any. (Brown & Rice ahead of him) 2004 we know what he did. His first year in the NFL playing full-time at the WR flanker position, Porter rang up 64 recpts for 998 yds with a very nice 15.6 ypc avg to go along with 9 TD's. So while Porter was indeed going on his FIFTH season in the NFL last year, the reality of it is, he'd actually only had about TWO seasons of real NFL game experience as a WR prior to last year and both of those seasons were where seemingly his focus / dedication was to the WR slot position. Only last year did he have any real prolonged NFL work at the WR flanker position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 A cut & paste from the now infamous thread Porter v. Burleson, Which do you take? In 2000, Porter's 1st year in the NFL, he only played in 12 games, starting none at the WR position and what little action he did see as a WR, it was in the slot. (Brown & Jett ahead of him) 2001 Porter garnered slightly more playing time, appearing in 15 games, but only ended up starting in one as a WR and that one start was again in the slot. (Brown & Rice ahead of him) 2002 is the year Porter began to really show his talent. He appeared in all 16 games that year, starting 14 while filling the the WR slot position and posting solid #'s - 51 recpts for 688 yds with a 13.5 avg and 9 Td's. (Brown & Rice ahead of him) 2003 Porter suffered a set back. Porter was initially diagnosed as having an abdominal strain, which as it turns out, was a mis-diagnosis by the Raiders medical staff. A second opinion revealed his injury to actually be a Sports Hernia which he ended up requiring surgery. He did appear in 10 games, but only started one and wasn't truly healthy in any. (Brown & Rice ahead of him) 2004 we know what he did. His first year in the NFL playing full-time at the WR flanker position, Porter rang up 64 recpts for 998 yds with a very nice 15.6 ypc avg to go along with 9 TD's. So while Porter was indeed going on his FIFTH season in the NFL last year, the reality of it is, he'd actually only had about TWO seasons of real NFL game experience as a WR prior to last year and both of those seasons were where seemingly his focus / dedication was to the WR slot position. Only last year did he have any real prolonged NFL work at the WR flanker position. 915277[/snapback] good numbers here, I somehow missed this in that thread you pulled this from...either that, or I overlooked it with the length and all.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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