Domanick Davis - ongoing knee problems Part Deux

[Avernus]

Wells is no longer a Texan goofy.

 

 

ahhh....allow me...

 

[CaptainHook]

Odd that you are a paying member of this website, since he was ranked in the Top 10 here last season. I guess the Huddle and about 50 other prognosticators overrated him, and you are the genius, captainschmuck?

 

 

Actually yes. I had him ranked lower than most. I posted regularly about how he was being ranked too high going into last season. Thus, I didn't have him on a single one of my teams, and did not have to struggle through his injury problems. When DMD drafted him with the fourth pick (I think) in the interboard challenge, I threw up in my mouth a little bit.

 

Listen, I picked him up as a FA the year he busted out. I traded him in the off-season that year. The reason he puts up good stats (when he plays) is becasue Houston has NO ONE else. David Carr is completely content to dump the ball off over and over and over again. He doesn't like to make tough throws. He doesn't read defenses well. DD benefits from this. He is undersized (5'9"). He would make an excellent third down back. But an everydown back for 16 games he is not. Houston's offensive line is a much better run blocking unit than pass blocking. But since Carr spends so much time on his back (some of it by his own doing), peopole say, "Dom must be great, 'cause their line is terrible." They are NOT a bad run blocking group. Then add in his extensive injury problems. . .

 

Would I refuse to draft him? Of course not. But there is NO way I would take him as my #1 RB. And calling a elite back in the NFL is flat wrong. And it was not in the context of fantasy football. swammi called him "a Top 8 RB" period. I suspect that if you gave NFL GM's their choice of "injury-free" seasons from all the backs in the NFL, DD would probably not be in the top 15. Probably not even the top 20.

 

 

He finished 3rd in my league just 2 years ago.

 

One out of 3 seasons in the FF top 10 does not make you elite. Like I said, the original discussion was NFL status not fantasy status. However I don't think he's top 8 FF-wise either. PPR leagues (like yours) would be different of course. But most don't play those.

 

Sooo, one good injury-free year does not make you a top 8 back. nope.

 

 

 

But go ahead and keep drafting him too high. More for the rest of us.

Edited June 16, 2006 by CaptainHook

[Avernus]

Sooo, one good injury-free year does not make you a top 8 back. nope.

 

 

 

he still had too many 0's for my liking last year....

 

just as many, if not more than Westbrook who is a better back, with the better OL....but people put him behind DD...

[Ziachild007]

The reason he puts up good stats (when he plays) is becasue Houston has NO ONE else. David Carr is completely content to dump the ball off over and over and over again. DD benefits from this.

 

I'll say that statement is pretty much dead on.

 

He doesn't like to make tough throws. He doesn't read defenses well.

 

Partially correct, but I'd say it has a little more to do with the pass protection.

 

He is undersized (5'9"). He would make an excellent third down back. But an everydown back for 16 games he is not. Houston's offensive line is a much better run blocking unit than pass blocking. But since Carr spends so much time on his back (some of it by his own doing), peopole say, "Dom must be great, 'cause their line is terrible." They are NOT a bad run blocking group. Then add in his extensive injury problems. . .

 

He is undersized, but there has been plenty of smaller backs that have had success as an every down back. I would say his biggest problem has to do with him just being injury prone. And I agree that the Texans run blocking was not horrible, but no where near great either.

 

Would I refuse to draft him? Of course not. But there is NO way I would take him as my #1 RB. One out of 3 seasons in the FF top 10 does not make you elite. Like I said, the original discussion was NFL status not fantasy status. However I don't think he's top 8 FF-wise either. PPR leagues (like yours) would be different of course. But most don't play those.

But go ahead and keep drafting him too high. More for the rest of us.

 

 

I dunno, I may take him as my #1, depending on where I was drafting, what strategy I was using, how big the league was, and the scoring.

 

And calling a elite back in the NFL is flat wrong. And it was not in the context of fantasy football. swammi called him "a Top 8 RB" period. I suspect that if you gave NFL GM's their choice of "injury-free" seasons from all the backs in the NFL, DD would probably not be in the top 15. Probably not even the top 20.

 

I agree 100%

[Big Score 1]

 

The Texans are going to trade for RB Michael Bennett, but we hear the Saints are in no hurry to trade Bennett and won't let him go for less than a fourth round pick.

www.nfldraftblitz.com

 

[Menudo]

Listen, I picked him up as a FA the year he busted out. I traded him in the off-season that year. The reason he puts up good stats (when he plays) is becasue Houston has NO ONE else. David Carr is completely content to dump the ball off over and over and over again. He doesn't like to make tough throws. He doesn't read defenses well. DD benefits from this. He is undersized (5'9"). He would make an excellent third down back. But an everydown back for 16 games he is not. Houston's offensive line is a much better run blocking unit than pass blocking. But since Carr spends so much time on his back (some of it by his own doing), peopole say, "Dom must be great, 'cause their line is terrible." They are NOT a bad run blocking group. Then add in his extensive injury problems. . .

 

They are not a terrible run blocking offensive lines, but, there are still towards the bottom, imho.

 

Would I refuse to draft him? Of course not. But there is NO way I would take him as my #1 RB. And calling a elite back in the NFL is flat wrong. And it was not in the context of fantasy football. swammi called him "a Top 8 RB" period. I suspect that if you gave NFL GM's their choice of "injury-free" seasons from all the backs in the NFL, DD would probably not be in the top 15. Probably not even the top 20.

 

Well, I had thought he was talking about FF not real NFL. I would agree that he is not an elite NFL RB, but, in Fantasy Football, because he is such a big part of their offense, when healthy, he definitely has elite back potential.

 

One out of 3 seasons in the FF top 10 does not make you elite. Like I said, the original discussion was NFL status not fantasy status. However I don't think he's top 8 FF-wise either. PPR leagues (like yours) would be different of course. But most don't play those.

But go ahead and keep drafting him too high. More for the rest of us.

 

 

I've got the Tiki Barber / Domanick Davis combo as keepers in two of my leagues. I'm just hoping DD can put together a season like two years ago, but, the fact that he is injury-prone siimply cannot be ignored. I will have Parker backing him up in one league, and look for a solid #3 with my 1st pick in the other league. Most of the leagues I see now are PPR leagues, but, the fact that some still don't play in leagues with those might be the reason why there are so many different opinions on him. In a re-draft league with PPR, I'd have him somewhere in the 10-15 range only because of his injury issues, if I was assured he'd stay healthy, I'd have him top 5.

[Avernus]

www.nfldraftblitz.com

 

 

 

exactly....

[Big Score 1]

Personally I don't really care what you guys think, but I'm paying pretty close attention here.

 

Remember, Dom had already missed the first round of OTA's and that was blown off as a better to be safe than sorry scenario, but Dom was definitely expected to be fine for this go round of OTA's. So what happens this go round? Dom can't even make it through the walk throughs...that's right, read it again...walk throughs... without his knee swelling up. The Texans still haven't said what is actually wrong with his knee. His Coach is getting concerned now and making noises about how Dom is falling behind. This isn't like Green Bay where 14 veterans can skip the OTA's that the new Coach is holding. Dom is not like Favre, where he can tell Kubiak that he doesn't like what's being installed and to change it.

 

Texans drafted Morency last year with a #2. This tear they drop a 6th on Lundi. Spend money on a veteran FA in Smith. Sign an undrafted rookie FA.

 

Ok. Everything is cool right?

 

Uhhhh not so fast. Now it looks like they'll be dropping a 4th for Bennett. Look at the timing of this interest in Bennett by the Texans.

 

Fellas, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to put the pieces of this puzzle together....

 

My

[Avernus]

Personally I don't really care what you guys think, but I'm paying pretty close attention here.

 

Remember, Dom had already missed the first round of OTA's and that was blown off as a better to be safe than sorry scenario, but Dom was definitely expected to be fine for this go round of OTA's. So what happens this go round? Dom can't even make it through the walk throughs...that's right, read it again...walk throughs... without his knee swelling up. The Texans still haven't said what is actually wrong with his knee. His Coach is getting concerned now and making noises about how Dom is falling behind. This isn't like Green Bay where 14 veterans can skip the OTA's that the new Coach is holding. Dom is not like Favre, where he can tell Kubiak that he doesn't like what's being installed and to change it.

 

Texans drafted Morency last year with a #2. This tear they drop a 6th on Lundi. Spend money on a veteran FA in Smith. Sign an undrafted rookie FA.

 

Ok. Everything is cool right?

 

Uhhhh not so fast. Now it looks like they'll be dropping a 4th for Bennett. Look at the timing of this interest in Bennett by the Texans.

 

Fellas, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to put the pieces of this puzzle together....

 

My

 

 

[i_am_the_swammi]

swammi called him "a Top 8 RB" period.

 

Captain, what I actually wrote was:

 

"DD, when healthy, is a Top 8 RB."

 

The "when healthy" caveat is very important. Almost everyone, everywhere had him ranked int he Top 10 (some as high as Top 5) last year, coming off a reasonably healthy 2004. After having knee issues last year, and surgery in the offseason, his ranking naturally goes south (but still no lower than 12-15) until he can produce otherwise.

 

He is a pick with exceptional upside, given how he has performed in the past, and with Kubiak in charge this coming year. If he can stay healthy, he is definitely a Top 10 fantasy RB. The stats bear it out.

Edited June 16, 2006 by i_am_the_swammi

[Big Score 1]

After having knee issues last year, and surgery in the offseason,

Just a quick correction here swammi.

 

Dom's surgery did not take place in the offseason.

 

He had his knee surgery the Wednesday before the Texans season final, against the 49er's.

HOUSTON -- Houston Texans running back Domanick Davis had arthroscopic knee surgery Wednesday and will miss the season finale at San Francisco.

sports.espn.go.com

 

I didn't want people to be under the impression that maybe Dom had the surgery sometime in Jan, Feb or March and think to themselves that he just hasn't had enough recovery time.

[Avernus]

Captain, what I actually wrote was:

 

"DD, when healthy, is a Top 8 RB."

 

The "when healthy" caveat is very important. Almost everyone, everywhere had him ranked int he Top 10 (some as high as Top 5) last year, coming off a reasonably healthy 2004. After having knee issues last year, and surgery in the offseason, his ranking naturally goes south (but still no lower than 12-15) until he can produce otherwise.

 

 

 

people used to say the same stuff about Fred Taylor....

 

I'd take DD as a 3rd RB at best...because of his potential....but I'd rather have CTaylor...

[blaw23]

he still had too many 0's for my liking last year....

 

just as many, if not more than Westbrook who is a better back, with the better OL....but people put him behind DD...

 

 

If Westbrook is the better back, it has not shown up in stats from the past two year. Essentialy the only two year Westbrook was the starter. Agreed he has the better OL but Davis has put up the same numbers over the past two years as Westbrook, so how is it that Westbrook is better?

 

Davis the past two years has played in 26 games with an avg. of 21 ppg - 04 and 18 ppg - 05

Westbrook has played in 27 games with an avg. of 20 ppg - 04 and 18 ppg - 05

 

Basically they have put up the exact same numbers for the past two years.

 

That is in a league with 1-10 yds, rushing or receiving 1 pt per reception, 6 pts for TD

Edited June 16, 2006 by blaw23

[CaptainHook]

Captain, what I actually wrote was:

 

"DD, when healthy, is a Top 8 RB."

 

The "when healthy" caveat is very important. Almost everyone, everywhere had him ranked int he Top 10 (some as high as Top 5) last year, coming off a reasonably healthy 2004. After having knee issues last year, and surgery in the offseason, his ranking naturally goes south (but still no lower than 12-15) until he can produce otherwise.

 

He is a pick with exceptional upside, given how he has performed in the past, and with Kubiak in charge this coming year. If he can stay healthy, he is definitely a Top 10 fantasy RB. The stats bear it out.

 

 

In my opinion, DD has already had his best season. Just a feeling.

 

I wouldn't draft him that high, and I don't think he has that potential to be top 10. JMO.

[Ziachild007]

Personally I don't really care what you guys think, but I'm paying pretty close attention here.

 

The situation deserves monitoring, as would any that had a starting RB coming off of a season ending injury. Especially if the recovery process was not coming along as expected.

 

The Texans still haven't said what is actually wrong with his knee. His Coach is getting concerned now and making noises about how Dom is falling behind.

 

What do you expect from a guy that has spent so many years with Shanahan?

 

This isn't like Green Bay where 14 veterans can skip the OTA's that the new Coach is holding. Dom is not like Favre, where he can tell Kubiak that he doesn't like what's being installed and to change it.

 

Sorry if I do not see the connection between players by choice not wanting to come to voluntary workouts and a player that is injured and can not attend workouts.

 

Texans drafted Morency last year with a #2. This tear they drop a 6th on Lundi. Spend money on a veteran FA in Smith. Sign an undrafted rookie FA.

 

Actually Morency was a 3rd last year, but whos counting?

 

Ok. Everything is cool right?

 

Uhhhh not so fast. Now it looks like they'll be dropping a 4th for Bennett. Look at the timing of this interest in Bennett by the Texans.

 

Fellas, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to put the pieces of this puzzle together....

 

My

 

 

But even if Dom was 75% right now, wouldnt it still be a smart football decsion for the Texans to take measures to be prepared in case he didnt make it the rest of the way back? Not saying that you are reading too much into it, but IMO it is better for them to be safe now (signing Smith, trading for Bennett) than be sorry later (having Lundy and Morency shoulder the whole load).

 

You could be right and it could become a major issue that not only affects fantasy teams, but would also have a great impact on the Texans this year. As a Texan fan, I would not really be all that thrilled to see Morency and Smith as the main RB options for my team. Getting Bennett would make things a little better maybe, but still wouldn't be tickled pink about it.

 

With that being said, I still expect Dom to be back and ready and ready to go when the season starts.

[Big Score 1]

Sorry if I do not see the connection between players by choice not wanting to come to voluntary workouts and a player that is injured and can not attend workouts.

 

It was about the fact that a completely new offense with new schemes, terminology etc being installed and most of that is done during the OTA's. Kubiak himself has said Dom is falling behind.

 

Unfortunately for Dom, he is not like Favre, where he can come in and tell Kubiak that he doesn't like it and to change it to what he is more comfortable with.

 

That was the point.

[Big Score 1]

But even if Dom was 75% right now, wouldnt it still be a smart football decsion for the Texans to take measures to be prepared in case he didnt make it the rest of the way back? Not saying that you are reading too much into it, but IMO it is better for them to be safe now (signing Smith, trading for Bennett) than be sorry later (having Lundy and Morency shoulder the whole load).

The point is, with Dom's knee swelling up in simple walk throughs, when he was suposed to be good to go, I suspect he's not close to 75%.

 

The Texans already had Morency, Lundi, Smith & Taylor, but are NOW looking to add even more depth at the expense of another draft pick, for Bennett.

 

Call me crazy, but I don't see this as being a hugh vote of confidence for Dom.

[i_am_the_swammi]

I'd take DD as a 3rd RB at best...because of his potential....but I'd rather have CTaylor...

 

 

3rd RB at best? In a 12-team league, that means you'd be taking him as the #25-36 RB. If that's the case, I doubt you'll have to worry about him as your #3 RB...he won't be there for you. But it sounds like you are more than OK with that.

 

Seriously, I also wouldn't want all my eggs in his basket, but he is certainly worth the upside he brings to the table for a 3rd-4th round pick (especially if you lock-up Morency with a later-round pick).

 

Like I said, if he can stay healthy, in this offense, I think he is good for 1400 rushing/500 receiving/12-14 TDs....Top 10 stuff.

[i_am_the_swammi]

The point is, with Dom's knee swelling up in simple walk throughs, when he was suposed to be good to go, I suspect he's not close to 75%.

 

The Texans already had Morency, Lundi, Smith & Taylor, but are NOW looking to add even more depth at the expense of another draft pick, for Bennett.

 

Call me crazy, but I don't see this as being a hugh vote of confidence for Dom.

 

 

Then I guess this discussion is a little premature. Since most fantasy drafts are in late August, most people should have plenty of time to see how well his knee holds up in training camp.

 

Most services have him ranked now between 12-15, and that is with the question of his health taken into consideration. If he can prove himself healthy in August, bump him another 4-6 spots, IMO, ahead of the likes of Westbrook, Julius, McGahee, K. Jones, Dillon, Taylor, Lewis, and the Fosters. I'd lump him side-by-side with Rudi, Jackson and Jordan, with more break-out upside, based on what Kubiak has done with his offensive scheme to other RBs.

[Ziachild007]

The point is, with Dom's knee swelling up in simple walk throughs, when he was suposed to be good to go, I suspect he's not close to 75%.

 

That was just a number I threw out there as an example, I am not saying he is or is not 75% right now.

 

The Texans already had Morency, Lundi, Smith & Taylor, but are NOW looking to add even more depth at the expense of another draft pick, for Bennett.

 

Call me crazy, but I don't see this as being a hugh vote of confidence for Dom.

 

 

I agree. But like I was saying if you were the Texans front office and coaching staff and IF Domanick wasnt ready to go in August, would you rather say "Man I am excited about this 4th round pick next year!" or "Man I am glad we have an experienced backup running back that can help carry the load.

 

And once again, with Kubiak coming from Denver, I am not really surprised to see him stockpiling RB, whether that has to do with Doms knee or not.

[Avernus]

If Westbrook is the better back, it has not shown up in stats from the past two year. Essentialy the only two year Westbrook was the starter. Agreed he has the better OL but Davis has put up the same numbers over the past two years as Westbrook, so how is it that Westbrook is better?

 

Davis the past two years has played in 26 games with an avg. of 21 ppg - 04 and 18 ppg - 05

Westbrook has played in 27 games with an avg. of 20 ppg - 04 and 18 ppg - 05

 

Basically they have put up the exact same numbers for the past two years.

 

That is in a league with 1-10 yds, rushing or receiving 1 pt per reception, 6 pts for TD

 

 

 

no...last year Westy was in the top 5 in my PPR league....DD was around 10-15...

 

in 04...DD was the 3rd best back...Westy was the 6th...

 

DD played 15 games in 04 and 11 in 05...and his knee is in shambles right now...

 

Westbrook played 13 in 04 and 12 in 05......and he's in outstanding shape right now...

 

also.....in 04...DD had 423 pts...Westy had 394 in 2 less games

 

in 05...DD had 253 pts in 11 games played...Westy had 306 in 2 less games

 

the past 2 seasons DD has played 1 more game than Westy and put up 24 less points.....

 

also...on top of that....Westbrook was going to only miss a week or 2 tops but the Eagles were clearly out of the playoffs and he went onto rehabbing ahead of time and getting a jump start on the offseason and 2007....

 

plus they wanted to see what Ryan Moats has......whereas the Texans have Morency...Lundi and likely M Bennett......

 

obviously DD does not have what it takes to last in the NFL...

[Avernus]

3rd RB at best? In a 12-team league, that means you'd be taking him as the #25-36 RB. If that's the case, I doubt you'll have to worry about him as your #3 RB...he won't be there for you. But it sounds like you are more than OK with that.

 

Seriously, I also wouldn't want all my eggs in his basket, but he is certainly worth the upside he brings to the table for a 3rd-4th round pick (especially if you lock-up Morency with a later-round pick).

 

Like I said, if he can stay healthy, in this offense, I think he is good for 1400 rushing/500 receiving/12-14 TDs....Top 10 stuff.

 

 

I won't disagree with you....I just don't think he has a shot at staying healthy from the reports I am hearing...

 

I have made my strength of making the playoffs every year except 1 since I started fantasy (98) by avoiding players who are either injury prone or one's that have a history of either leaving games or are Rosie O'Donnell.....and DD fits all of the above IMO.......maybe not exactly injury prone....but when he's done in the NFL...that will be the label on him...

[Menudo]

In my opinion, DD has already had his best season. Just a feeling.

 

I wouldn't draft him that high, and I don't think he has that potential to be top 10. JMO.

 

 

I've got to admit that the fact the Texans are considering Bennett has me very concerned about DD's health. I'm still hoping for the best, but, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't very concerned.

[Big Score 1]

Then I guess this discussion is a little premature. Since most fantasy drafts are in late August, most people should have plenty of time to see how well his knee holds up in training camp.

I agree here.

Just keep a close eye on him and if you do draft him, you have to figure him as your #2. I think it would be a mistake to draft Dom as your #1, given that his knee is not rehabbing as expected and his well documented inability to stay healthy, in season.

Most services have him ranked now between 12-15, and that is with the question of his health taken into consideration. If he can prove himself healthy in August, bump him another 4-6 spots, IMO, ahead of the likes of

Westbrook Disagree,

Julius Agree,

McGahee Disagree,

K. Jones Agree,

Dillon Agree,

Taylor Agree,

Lewis Agree , and the

Fosters Agree.

I'd lump him side-by-side with Rudi Agree in PPR Leagues, otherwise Disagree, Jackson Disagree and Jordan Disagree, with more break-out upside, based on what Kubiak has done with his offensive scheme to other RBs.