AtomicCEO Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 So I built a deck with a big arbor off the back of my house. Yes, I rule. Here's the snag. I knew I needed a permit to build anything over 36" tall, so I drew up my plans, went down to the city office on rookie day, and they made a few changes to the structure of it, then signed off on my plans and issued me a permit number. I built my deck and had the inspector out to my house and he started poking around and said... "Oh no, no good. You have to have a brace here and a bracket here and a breagh breagh breagh." So I ripped apart some stuff and did what he said, and had had him out a second time. This time he said, "Oh no, no good. You have do do this and this." I pulled out the plans ok'd by the city and said, "Listen... what you are asking me to do is to rip it all up and start from scratch. These plans were approved. Look at them. See the marks. See the stamp. This approval process was the time to pull this crap, not now after it's built exactly like you said it had to be built." He refused to pass it, so I told him to f-off and get the hell off my property. But now I have this large beautiful, albeit un-permitted, deck on my house and we are thinking of selling it next year. What do I have to do before we sell? Disclose that it's not permitted? Rip it down? If I leave it up, sell the house, and it crashes into the dining room during a windstorm for the new owners... am I going to get sued? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 (edited) you better get something specific and in writing so you can have it set up properly with the approval of someone who can get sued for not giving you the correct or suffice amount of information... you would have been set if you got him to put this in writing the first time and followed what he said and then when he came out the 2nd time and disapproved the improvements made on the deck, you can talk him into waiving his BS fee... I would get one more and final look at this and in writing as I have said and have this done right....Deck's don't bring in nearly the same amount that you spend on it when you get your house appraised, but they really can be a difference maker in someones decision making....and if that deck falls through...someone is getting sued, probably you and the person who appraised the property...barring the fact that they said it met standards.. I would definitely get this taken care of ASAP if you plan on selling your property in a year or so... Edited December 1, 2007 by Avernus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polksalet Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 ask for a variance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cunning Runt Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 I wouldn't think you would have any liability at all. This would strike me as a "Buyer Beware" situation. Most buyers typically have a home inspection done prior to buying a home and while the inspectors can't be held liable for missing things since the buyers sign waivers, generally they catch the code stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 I wouldn't think you would have any liability at all. This would strike me as a "Buyer Beware" situation. Most buyers typically have a home inspection done prior to buying a home and while the inspectors can't be held liable for missing things since the buyers sign waivers, generally they catch the code stuff. but the fact that he needs a permit and hasn't passed inspection is where I don't think the "buyer beware" situation applies... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cunning Runt Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 but the fact that he needs a permit and hasn't passed inspection is where I don't think the "buyer beware" situation applies... I think liability after a home is sold and having a permit/passing inspection would be two different things and would indeed fall under the Buyer Beware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 I think liability after a home is sold and having a permit/passing inspection would be two different things and would indeed fall under the Buyer Beware. but what would happen between now and then since he doesn't have a permit?...I wouldn't expect him to get away with this since there is some sort of paper trail of him getting it inspected and failing... this most certainly is hitting a gray area for me... the buyer would have to know the deck is in bad shape and be willing to take the property after having this knowledge... and the majority of home purchasers just want to open up the door and move in without having to fix anything up.....something like this may scare away quite a few potential home buyers considering Atomic is apparently fixing the house up and then selling instead of leaving some work to be done...which in this case, the value would be a bit lower and someone would take the house looking for a deal to flip the property in a year or two...at least IMO anyways.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickspicks Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 If a City official "stamped" your plans and issued a Permit Number you have a Permit for Construction. What you probably do not have is an Occupancy Compliance Certificate and/or Final Approval due to the moron doing the inspections; A case of "I is a Building Inspector and I is more inportaint than you" syndrome. You sensed the attitude and tossed him on his ear. A Building Inspector must base field changes, his observations, etc. on Building Code Sections and his changes must be in writting. Contact the Chief Building Official (that's probably the person that approved your original designs) and ask for a meeting. Keep us posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 ask for a variance Um, no. If a City official "stamped" your plans and issued a Permit Number you have a Permit for Construction. What you probably do not have is an Occupancy Compliance Certificate and/or Final Approval due to the moron doing the inspections; A case of "I is a Building Inspector and I is more inportaint than you" syndrome. You sensed the attitude and tossed him on his ear. A Building Inspector must base field changes, his observations, etc. on Building Code Sections and his changes must be in writting. Contact the Chief Building Official (that's probably the person that approved your original designs) and ask for a meeting. Keep us posted. This is the route to go. CC the City Manager and/or City Attorney on all correspondence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Dick Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 The question is: Is the deck built to code? Meaning, does it have the proper bracing, number of fasteners per board, etc. Just because you have a set of plans that are stamped doesn't mean it was built correctly. When the planning commission stamps a set of plans they are going under the assumption that you will build it per code. And if it doesn't pass inspection, then that usually means it wasn't built right, regardless of the stamp or not. I've built several houses, and just because you have a stamped plan doesn't give you immunity to build it any way you want. The stamped plans and permits just give you permission to erect the structure per building codes. Let us know what the objections were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickspicks Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 I knew I needed a permit to build anything over 36" tall, so I drew up my plans, went down to the city office on rookie day, and they made a few changes to the structure of it, then signed off on my plans and issued me a permit number. I built my deck and had the inspector out to my house and he started poking around and said... "Oh no, no good. You have to have a brace here and a bracket here and a breagh breagh breagh." So I ripped apart some stuff and did what he said, and had had him out a second time. This time he said, "Oh no, no good. You have do do this and this." I pulled out the plans ok'd by the city and said, "Listen... what you are asking me to do is to rip it all up and start from scratch. These plans were approved. Look at them. See the marks. See the stamp. This approval process was the time to pull this crap, not now after it's built exactly like you said it had to be built." He refused to pass it, so I told him to f-off and get the hell off my property. It sounds as though A.CEO is having problems with the Field Inspector. From my previous post contact the CBO and have a "face-to-face." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Dick Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 It sounds as though A.CEO is having problems with the Field Inspector. From my previous post contact the CBO and have a "face-to-face." Yep. The problem is once you piss off the Field guy you will never get anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicCEO Posted December 1, 2007 Author Share Posted December 1, 2007 Yep. The problem is once you piss off the Field guy you will never get anywhere. I have authority issues. I could always bust out the circular saw, take down everything over 36" and be done with it. I don't think I'm going to get anywhere with the city... I was just wondering if I held liability after the sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickspicks Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 I have authority issues. I could always bust out the circular saw, take down everything over 36" and be done with it. I don't think I'm going to get anywhere with the city... I was just wondering if I held liability after the sale. A Title Search would probably reveal a "Non-Compliance/Conforming Structure." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cunning Runt Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 (edited) A Title Search would probably reveal a "Non-Compliance/Conforming Structure." Maybe, maybe not. In any event this doesn't address the question of liability after the sale. I still say no liability. Except..... Except if there is anywhere in your Listing Agreement or Sellers Reps/Warranties where you have the opportunity/obligation to disclose and you neglect to do so, either by mistake or by intent. Or if you are directly asked if you know of anything along these lines affecting the property and you lie. If you're not required to disclose, I don't see where there is liability. Buyer Beware. I'd get a real estate attorney's 2 cents if you're that concerned. Edited December 1, 2007 by Cunning Runt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 Maybe, maybe not. In any event this doesn't address the question of liability after the sale. I still say no liability. Except..... Except if there is anywhere in your Listing Agreement or Sellers Reps/Warranties where you have the opportunity/obligation to disclose and you neglect to do so, either by mistake or by intent. Or if you are directly asked if you know of anything along these lines affecting the property and you lie. If you're not required to disclose, I don't see where there is liability. Buyer Beware. I'd get a real estate attorney's 2 cents if you're that concerned. I don't see how this information can't be disclosed... if he really wants there to be a deck on his property when he sells it, he needs to either get it down to size to where he doesn't need a permit or find a way to get the damm thing approved.... as I mentioned before, most buyers just want to open the door and move right in...they want as little hassle as possible.. this can be a hassle...albeit, probably a small one...but still a hassle... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF409ers Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 You should go ahead and disclose it prior to sale. You want to cover youself in case say 6 months later the deck crashes and someone gets hurt than they find out that the deck was not built to code or passed inspection, etc. IIRC a "title search" most likely will not show any record of you building a deck / not passing the inspection. A lot of people never get plans approved by the city / get inspections on additions like deck's, etc. and this kind of disclosure often gets overlooked. It is always better to play it safe and just disclose whatever could be a pain in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicCEO Posted December 1, 2007 Author Share Posted December 1, 2007 I have no problem disclosing. And this thing has survived numerous windstorms with gusts over 80mph. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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