Bad Poker Beat

[Capt Skinman]

Okay, so I stepped away from the online stuff when the feds got involved but a friend mentioned that he was back up and running on Pokerstars. I dump 100 clams and start right off on a .5/1 no-limit table to get back in the groove.

 

I played pretty well going up 50 clams in about 15 minutes off a couple great hands. It slowed after that and actually started cutting into my stack to where I was at about 90 clams at 2 hours in. So here comes the hand.

 

BEAT

Full table second to last in position and get pocket Js. Guy raises 3 clams at position right in front of me. I double it and he doubles over me so I call. At this point I'm thinking he's probably got something real close or a little better than me. Everyone else is out and its head to head.

 

Flop comes 5, 5, J! I put him on high pair and he charges me betting the pot (about 24 clams). I double and he goes all-in over the top of me. I call immediately knowing 5s are the only thing better; so I'm all-in.

 

Turn is an ace and I start screamin. Then river hits Q and I scream even more.

 

DUDE HAD POCKET QUEENS!

 

100 Clams gone and steamin.

[SheikYerbuti]

100 Clams gone and steamin.

 

 

mmmmmm. . .steamed clams :drool:. . . .

[Ursa Majoris]

That sucks.....and explains why I avoid gambling.

[jaxfactor]

When he reraised you before the flop, that's exactly what I would have put him on. Q's, K's or A's. If I were him, I'd be thinking you could have K's or A's so the fact that he went all in was very risky on his part. He probably figured his 2 pair(Q's and 5's) was good. Had he just called your raise after the flop, the A may have scared him off and you may have been able to win before the river. I don't think you did anything wrong in the way you played the hand. He just got lucky by going all in after the flop and hitting on the river. No way do I fold with a full boat J's over 5's. That's poker as the cliche goes.

[SheikYerbuti]

I don't think you did anything wrong in the way you played the hand.

 

Of course he did something wrong. . .he got all his money in as an 11-1 favorite.

 

Dum.

[Capt Skinman]

Of course he did something wrong. . .he got all his money in as an 11-1 favorite.

 

Dum.

 

That's exactly what I was thinking.

[Donutrun Jellies]

100 Clams gone and steamin.

He put the "won" in "11 to 1 odds" ... what you gonna do? Other than never bet what you aren't prepared to give away.

 

The Munchkins were playing parcheeeesie with their cousin the other night and the little one needed to role snake eyes to win ... the olders taunted her that the odds of that were 36-1 ... Two turns later, she hits it. 1 & 1. Game over.

 

Hey, at least you had an entertaining evening with it and that's really all that matters in gambling.

[detlef]

When he reraised you before the flop, that's exactly what I would have put him on. Q's, K's or A's. If I were him, I'd be thinking you could have K's or A's so the fact that he went all in was very risky on his part. He probably figured his 2 pair(Q's and 5's) was good. Had he just called your raise after the flop, the A may have scared him off and you may have been able to win before the river. I don't think you did anything wrong in the way you played the hand. He just got lucky by going all in after the flop and hitting on the river. No way do I fold with a full boat J's over 5's. That's poker as the cliche goes.

Dude, they were all in before the Ace even dropped. Nobody's getting scared off at that point.

[skylive5]

The guy had the best hand going in....and the best hand when it was over. Not sure if this qualifies as a bad beat. Don't get me wrong....does suck big time...but getting jacks wired always sucks.

[detlef]

The guy had the best hand going in....and the best hand when it was over. Not sure if this qualifies as a bad beat. Don't get me wrong....does suck big time...but getting jacks wired always sucks.

Well, in as much as there were not that many hands better than his QQ 55 after the flop, it was a solid play by the guy who won. To some degree, that makes it a bit less of a bad beat. I mean, it's not like he went all in with nothing but his pocket pair against a bunch of Ks and As in the flop and grabbed two more queens on the last two cards or anything.

 

That said, when dude went all in, he was a huge, favorite. That certainly makes it a bad beat.

[wildcat2334]

Well, in as much as there were not that many hands better than his QQ 55 after the flop, it was a solid play by the guy who won. To some degree, that makes it a bit less of a bad beat. I mean, it's not like he went all in with nothing but his pocket pair against a bunch of Ks and As in the flop and grabbed two more queens on the last two cards or anything.

 

That said, when dude went all in, he was a huge, favorite. That certainly makes it a bad beat.

 

 

yup- many different definitions of "bad beat" - when all the money goes in is a good place to start. I think this certainly qualifies as a bad beat

 

Just calling a medium sized pre-flop raise - and then getting all your dough in on the flop- and him sucking out the queen that is a brutal beat -

[Big Country]

It certainly qualifies as a bad beat, but, given the size of the pot and the little amount you have left once you make the flop raise, little chance he would be folding any of the 3 overpairs, a big jack or any 5, so, while it is a bad beat, it was not exactly a bad play by the other player. This is just one of those it's poker things.

 

Unrelated, but I was playing at a local casino a few nights ago. The player to my right had quads 4 times in about 45 minutes, all 4 when he was holding a pocket pair, and 3 of them coming on the flop. He got paid off on two of them, one when another guy turned a big flush, another when another guy had a full house. And people try to say online poker is rigged.

[SheikYerbuti]

And people try to say online poker is rigged.

 

Oh it is. . .

 

[Big Country]

Oh it is. . .

 

 

So, sticking to the poker related theme, been playing a bit at a local casino. Terrible blind structure for the buy in amount, but that is usually made up for by the terrible play. Just playing their $100 buy in no limit game, blinds are $2 and $3 (Yes, max buy in is 33 bets). The $300 game has blinds of $3 and $5, but, as the play is so bad in the $100 game, been doing fairly well.

 

Basic strategy I've been employing is being very aggressive early on to try build up a playable stack. Standard preflop raise varies from table to table, but generally it is about $15. Usually, if I have just bought in, I am looking for opportunities to get it all in as the stacks are short. So, if there is a raise to say $15 in front of me and a couple callers and I have a hand good enough to call, I'll probably push it in then to try take down the pot, adding 50% to my stack. Once I build up a bit of a stack I resort to more traditional play, not really looking to gamble for my stack. So far so good.

 

Sheik, what are your thoughts on this kind of strategy for this blind structure. Obviously it i not neccessarily needed at a new table when everyone only has $100, but when coming in to a table where over half the players generally are closer to $200+, do you think it is viable, or should I be looking to make some other adjustments? I've been basically following some of the basic advice Ed Miller has been writing about recently in his adjusting for Wild Games columns at Card Player and on his site, as it seemed to fit the mold for this structure.

 

My "bad beats" lately have come by making "good" laydowns (Guess it is better than losing big pots to donks, but still they hurt). End of a session, my last hand, and I am finally back to just down a small bit and have about $275 in front of me, been on a real tear at the table though getting run over by the deck and just outplaying people. SO, as it is my last hand, I make a blind raise to $6 before the cards are out. A couple callers then the SB makes it $25 and is called by the BB. I look and have 93o so decide to fold it, one additional caller behind me. Flop comes K99. Decent betting action. DOH. Turn is an ace. More action. River is the case 9. Lots of action. DOH. I figured it was going to be a chop with the ace, but turns out one guy had the king the other the ace. Oh well. Can't be results oriented.

 

Different session, and I am up with about $250 in front of me. A real tight player makes it 18 to go from UTG+1. Folds to me on the button. I have 99 and decide that with how tight he has been playing, he either has an overpair to me or at least AK, so I decide to be smart and lay it down. The SB calls, BB folds. Flop is Q95. DOH. Decent action. Turn is a 3 I believe. Money gets all in, about $150 a piece, though one of the players did have me covered had I stayed in. Turn over the hands. SB has AQ for TPTK, preflop raiser had kings and they held up. Again, can't be results oriented as I made the right read and acted on it, but still a real bummer.

[Big Country]

So, sticking to the poker related theme, been playing a bit at a local casino. Terrible blind structure for the buy in amount, but that is usually made up for by the terrible play. Just playing their $100 buy in no limit game, blinds are $2 and $3 (Yes, max buy in is 33 bets). The $300 game has blinds of $3 and $5, but, as the play is so bad in the $100 game, been doing fairly well.

 

Basic strategy I've been employing is being very aggressive early on to try build up a playable stack. Standard preflop raise varies from table to table, but generally it is about $15. Usually, if I have just bought in, I am looking for opportunities to get it all in as the stacks are short. So, if there is a raise to say $15 in front of me and a couple callers and I have a hand good enough to call, I'll probably push it in then to try take down the pot, adding 50% to my stack. Once I build up a bit of a stack I resort to more traditional play, not really looking to gamble for my stack. So far so good.

 

Sheik, what are your thoughts on this kind of strategy for this blind structure. Obviously it i not neccessarily needed at a new table when everyone only has $100, but when coming in to a table where over half the players generally are closer to $200+, do you think it is viable, or should I be looking to make some other adjustments? I've been basically following some of the basic advice Ed Miller has been writing about recently in his adjusting for Wild Games columns at Card Player and on his site, as it seemed to fit the mold for this structure.

 

So, played the other day and had an interesting situation come up:

 

It is the very first hand at a new table. So everyone has exactly $100 in front of them. I have not played with any of these players before, but based on the chatter, I pick up that 3 of them are retired locals (guessing retired based on age), one to my right, one to my left, and one across the table. Anyway, I get the BB for the first hand. There are two callers when the CO (this is one before the button for those not down with poker lingo) makes it $18 to go. Folded to me and I have AdJh. I decide to call. One other caller behind me, so 3 of us to the flop with approx. $60 in the pot. Flop comes down Jd8h5h. I check to see what the preflop raiser will do, other caller checks and the preflop raiser leads out with $40.

 

What do you do in this situation?

Edited January 3, 2008 by Big Country

[The Holy Roller]

So, played the other day and had an interesting situation come up:

 

It is the very first hand at a new table. So everyone has exactly $100 in front of them. I have not played with any of these players before, but based on the chatter, I pick up that 3 of them are retired locals (guessing retired based on age), one to my right, one to my left, and one across the table. Anyway, I get the BB for the first hand. There are two callers when the CO (this is one before the button for those not down with poker lingo) makes it $18 to go. Folded to me and I have AdJh. I decide to call. One other caller behind me, so 3 of us to the flop with approx. $60 in the pot. Flop comes down Jd8h5h. I check to see what the preflop raiser will do, other caller checks and the preflop raiser leads out with $40.

 

What do you do in this situation?

 

Hard to tell on first hand. It's all-in or fold. I had a situation at a recent tourney with a bunch of locals that I don't know. First hand, Rockets. I make a standard raise in third position. Player to my left reraises. Folds all the way back to me. I have to all-in him. He says. "There's only one hand that can beat me. " Pauses. Throws them down. KK. Out of respect for his play I show him the aces. But I don't know if i could have done what he did. In your case your either believe the bettor or get out. What kind of hand were you hoping for playing AJ? Hopefully the one that just flopped. You got what you wanted. Unless there's something about the player you can read it's all-in time.

[Big Country]

Hard to tell on first hand. It's all-in or fold. I had a situation at a recent tourney with a bunch of locals that I don't know. First hand, Rockets. I make a standard raise in third position. Player to my left reraises. Folds all the way back to me. I have to all-in him. He says. "There's only one hand that can beat me. " Pauses. Throws them down. KK. Out of respect for his play I show him the aces. But I don't know if i could have done what he did. In your case your either believe the bettor or get out. What kind of hand were you hoping for playing AJ? Hopefully the one that just flopped. You got what you wanted. Unless there's something about the player you can read it's all-in time.

 

Wow.. I have never been able to lay down Kings preflop. I have laid Queens down a few times preflop, and fortunately up til know have been correct to do so each time.

 

As for what I was hoping for with the AJ was exactly this. I hit TPTK plus a backdoor flush draw. I'd have preferred if I was drawing to the nut flush obviously. Being first hand, and never playing with the guy before, hadn't been able to pick up much of a read yet (though I certainly was able to as the session progressed).

 

Since I doubt there will be much else in way of response to the particular hand, I went with the line I had planned on and that was to push all in. The size of his continuation bet screamed overcards like AK, possibly hearts or a middle pair like 99 or TT. I figured if he had an overpair or flopped two pair on that board, that's poker, so the push was easy in my mind. The middle position player folded and the preflop raiser insta-called. I show my AJ and see I am getting crushed as he has JJ and flopped top set. Wow, the large flop bet really threw me... was he really that afraid of a flush draw given the amount of the preflop raise? Anyway, turn gave me hope as it was a heart, but river bricked and one hand in and I was reloading.

 

Ended up getting felted one more time in a set over set confrontation on an uncoordinated board, reloaded and doubled that up over the next hour or so when it came time that I had to leave even though I was rolling. Most of the table was playing nit-like tight, so I was able to pick up quite a few pots with standard continuation bets and got paid off nicely on my made hands. I did get lucky though when I hit top two pair with JT out of the BB (unraised preflop) on a flop with 3 hearts, made a bet and cleared out all but one short stack that pushed all in for a little more than my bet. He had flopped the flush, I turned the boat and took the pot. Got back to $200 so essentially played break even except for that first hand.