Azazello1313 Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 Hey Az, care to defend this one? if you're expecting me to reply to every talking point from moveon and thinkprogress over the next several months, you're mistaken. you wanna know mccain's position, why don't you just ask him? But McCain sided with the Bush administration yesterday on the waterboarding ban passed by the Senate, saying in a statement that the measure goes too far by applying military standards to intelligence agencies. He also said current laws already forbid waterboarding, and he urged the administration to declare it illegal. "Staging a mock execution by inducing the misperception of drowning is a clear violation" of laws and treaties, McCain said. could one perceive this as trying to have it both ways? if you've got a major hardon for blasting the guy, sure. but there was a lot in that bill besides applying the army field manual standards to the CIA, most of which is classified. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 i'll note that, while i go back and forth on this issue, i don't think i agree with mccain on this one: Several accounts reported that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was waterboarded while being interrogated by the CIA. According to the Bush administration, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed divulged information of tremendous value during his detention. He is said to have helped point the way to the capture of Hambali, the Indonesian terrorist responsible for the 2002 bombings of night clubs in Bali. According to the Bush administration, he also provided information on an Al Qaeda leader in England.[42] During a radio interview on October 24, 2006, with Scott Hennen of radio station WDAY, Vice President Dick Cheney seemed to agree with the use of waterboarding.[43] The following are the questions and answers at issue, excerpted from the transcript of the interview: Hennen: "…And I've had people call and say, please, let the Vice President know that if it takes dunking a terrorist in water, we're all for it, if it saves American lives. Again, this debate seems a little silly given the threat we face, would you agree?" Cheney: "I do agree. And I think the terrorist threat, for example, with respect to our ability to interrogate high value detainees like Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, that's been a very important tool that we've had to be able to secure the nation. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed provided us with enormously valuable information about how many there are, about how they plan, what their training processes are and so forth, we've learned a lot. We need to be able to continue that." … Hennen: "Would you agree a dunk in water is a no-brainer if it can save lives?" Cheney: "Well, it's a no-brainer for me, but for a while there I was criticized as being the vice president for torture. We don't torture. That's not what we're involved in."[44] The administration later denied that Cheney had confirmed the use of waterboarding, saying that U.S. officials do not talk publicly about interrogation techniques because they are classified. White House Press Secretary Tony Snow said that Cheney was not referring to waterboarding, but only to a "dunk in the water", prompting one reporter to ask, "So dunk in the water means, what, we have a pool now at Guantanamo and they go swimming?" Tony Snow replied, "You doing stand-up?"[45] On September 13, 2007 ABC News reported that a former intelligence officer stated that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed had been waterboarded in the presence of a female CIA supervisor.[46] Captured along with Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was a letter from bin Laden[47] which led officials to think that he knew where the Al Qaeda founder was hiding.[48] According to sources familiar with a private interview of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, he claimed to have been waterboarded five times.[42] "A CIA official told ABC News that he had been water-boarded, and had won the admiration of his interrogators because it took him two to two-and-half minutes to start confessing – well beyond the average of 14 seconds observed in others."[49] This is disputed by two former CIA officers who are reportedly friends with one of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed's interrogators. The officers called this 'bravado' and claimed that he was waterboarded only once. According to one of the officers, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed needed only to be shown the drowning equipment again before he "broke." "Waterboarding works," the former officer said. "Drowning is a baseline fear. So is falling. People dream about it. It’s human nature. Suffocation is a very scary thing. When you’re waterboarded, you’re inverted, so it exacerbates the fear. It’s not painful, but it scares the poopy out of you." (The former officer was waterboarded himself in a training course.) Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, he claimed, "didn’t resist. He sang right away. He cracked real quick." He said, "A lot of them want to talk. Their egos are unimaginable. (He) was just a little doughboy. He couldn't stand toe to toe and fight it out."[42] After being subjected to waterboarding, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed claimed involvement in thirty-one terrorist plots.[50] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budlitebrad Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 (edited) Romney will apparently endorse McCain later today and release his delegates. Coincidence? Edited February 15, 2008 by budlitebrad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicCEO Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 But McCain sided with the Bush administration yesterday on the waterboarding ban passed by the Senate, saying in a statement that the measure goes too far by applying military standards to intelligence agencies. He also said current laws already forbid waterboarding, and he urged the administration to declare it illegal. "Staging a mock execution by inducing the misperception of drowning is a clear violation" of laws and treaties, McCain said. So... I guess he's leading ht charge on prosecuting the people responsible for already doing it. Go get em John! Bust 'em up! Wait... what? He's not? Weird. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 Bush is on air now saying he needs telecom immuntity to protect the people. Truth is he is protecting them from lawsuits. If they've been recording every communication since 2002 those deleted White House emails must be in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moneymakers Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 (edited) Bush is on air now saying he needs telecom immuntity to protect the people. Truth is he is protecting them from lawsuits. If they've been recording every communication since 2002 those deleted White House emails must be in there. Rove served notice that Obama and Clinton would be targeted over how they vote on any Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act legislation that comes before the Senate this year. “Do they or do they not want our intelligence officials to be listening in on terrorists’ conversations in the Middle East who may … be plotting to hurt America?” Rove said. rove has you pegged. Telecommunications need protection from guys like Edwards. It allows the government to initiate wiretaps for up to one year against a wide range of targets. It also explicitly compels telecommunications companies to comply with the orders, and protects them from civil lawsuits that may be filed against them for doing so. Back to the topic These are the guys that you are worried about offending Al Qaeda's latest display of terror makes its way onto the Web — showing horrifying images of what appear to be prisoners in Iraq being doused and then burned alive Edited February 15, 2008 by moneymakers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaP'N GRuNGe Posted February 15, 2008 Author Share Posted February 15, 2008 Just one slight teeny tiny itsy bitsy little problem in using 9-11 and Al Qaeda as justification for illegal wire tapping... The Bush Administration was doing it BEFORE 9-11 even occurred. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheShiznit Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 Just one slight teeny tiny itsy bitsy little problem in using 9-11 and Al Qaeda as justification for illegal wire tapping... The Bush Administration was doing it BEFORE 9-11 even occurred. Grunge, the Ass Pustule you are trying to converse with has blinders on. He cannot find a coherent sentence with two hands and a flashlight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retrograde assault Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 McCain, yomama, Billary. They all spell p.u.s.s.y Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budlitebrad Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 (edited) McCain, yomama, Billary. They all spell p.u.s.s.y Giant d0uche or turd sandwich? Edited February 17, 2008 by budlitebrad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 Giant d0uche or turd sandwich? Too bad we don't have a John Wayne type actor from Hollywood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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