isleseeya Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 (edited) Yup One man's villain is another man's hero. And vice versa. example please as i do not believe both parties would be right ( the one who views the man as a hero and the other that views same man as a villain ..one of them may very likely be off or incorrect whether they realize itor not ) My point remains their is no middle ground as it pertains to evil ...there may be people who choose evil and do not understand why they have done so or care why or may even try to defend / justify it , but evil is evil ..period Edited March 13, 2008 by isleseeya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukon Cornelius Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 example please as i do not believe both parties would be right ( the one who views the man as a hero and the other that views same man as a villain ..one of them may very likely be off or incorrect whether they realize itor not ) My point remains their is no middle ground as it pertains to evil ...there may be people who choose evil and do not understand why they have done so or care why or may even try to defend / justify it , but evil is evil ..period ok u tell me what is evil.... then we can go from there.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isleseeya Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 Evil = knowingly doing something selfish , hurtful towards others or yourself , for your own personal motives or gain , with the full disregard to what is good , morally correct and what is right For me personally , as a Christian , and as i have said a few times in various threads , it is not only the action but the motive behind the action that helps constitute if something is evil , sinfulor wrong ok u tell me what is evil.... then we can go from there.... I did so already in the thread ( above ) I am not purposefully trying to be a nut breaker ...i see alot of kids today ( even mine ) who think that something is ok if others are doing it or if something bad is done its ok to react back badly , and i try to get in their heads that wrong is wrong and evil is evil ...its not ok even if many do not understand an example ...many Germans at one time viewed Hitler as a savior , he may have even helped improve some of their lives , but he did it with bad motives and evil intentions and at the cost of someone else ( actually millions of lives ) ..so while those people may see him in a positive light , its incorrect as evil was the root and force behind him and what he did I will get off my soap box now ... i get a little impassioned when it comes to some of the stuff ..meant no harm boys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukon Cornelius Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 Evil = knowingly doing something selfish , hurtful towards others or yourself , for your own personal motives or gain , with the full disregard to what is good , morally correct and what is rightFor me personally , as a Christian , and as i have said a few times in various threads , it is not only the action but the motive behind the action that helps constitute if something is evil , sinfulor wrong that is an awfully broad statement... i can punch holes in it easily.. u need to break it down a bit more.. things like morals change form culture to culture... im not trying to break you're balls either im just trying to see where you and other are coming from... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheShiznit Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 that is an awfully broad statement... i can punch holes in it easily.. u need to break it down a bit more.. things like morals change form culture to culture... im not trying to break you're balls either im just trying to see where you and other are coming from... Hey Yukon....are you Ted Bundy's brother? He felt murdering good looking nurses was perfectly ok and within his liberty as a human being. For some odd reason the people of Florida disagreed. Now, are you purporting that we should have given deference to Bundy's "feeling" about what he felt was right. You make no sense. You are basically saying that in any situation a person may find themselves in that there is no truth....and not the kind of truth where someone asks if you did something.....the kind of truth that is universal....almost metaphysical. So, are you saying there is no truth? Straight answer please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyBalata Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 Hey Yukon....are you Ted Bundy's brother? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wirehairman Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 Yup One man's villain is another man's hero. And vice versa. example please Dr. Jack Kevorkian? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukon Cornelius Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 (edited) Hey Yukon....are you Ted Bundy's brother? He felt murdering good looking nurses was perfectly ok and within his liberty as a human being. For some odd reason the people of Florida disagreed. Now, are you purporting that we should have given deference to Bundy's "feeling" about what he felt was right. You make no sense. You are basically saying that in any situation a person may find themselves in that there is no truth....and not the kind of truth where someone asks if you did something.....the kind of truth that is universal....almost metaphysical. So, are you saying there is no truth? Straight answer please. is it evil to kill someone if they are about to kill you?? is it ok to kill someone because of there religious or ethnic back round?? and you're example is another that is way out there.. is it evil to torture an animal before you eat it.. there is truth, but someones truth may not be others... is the bible truth, the quran, the lds bible, the torah, the Bab writings... etc?? is it evil to sleep with someones wife?? there are basic truths and morals and morays but they can and are interpreted differently. truth .....we are born, we live we die.... Edited March 13, 2008 by Yukon Cornelius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheShiznit Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 example pleaseDr. Jack Kevorkian? Kevorkian is evil when he actually does the killing. From what I know he gives people the things necessary to carry out their plan...that is not evil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukon Cornelius Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 Kevorkian is evil when he actually does the killing. From what I know he gives people the things necessary to carry out their plan...that is not evil. to some he is evil to the Nth degree.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wirehairman Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 Kevorkian is evil when he actually does the killing. From what I know he gives people the things necessary to carry out their plan...that is not evil. There is a difference between being the tool and supplying the tools? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheShiznit Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 is it evil to kill someone if they are about to kill you?? is it ok to kill someone because of there religious or ethnic back round?? and you're example is another that is way out there.. is it evil to torture an animal before you eat it.. there is truth, but someones truth may not be others... is the bible truth, the quran, the lds bible, the torah, the Bab writings... etc?? is it evil to sleep with someones wife?? there are basic truths and morals and mores but they can and are interpreted differently. truth .....we are born, we live we die.... IOW...there is not absolute truth...is that your position? All the other babbling aside....I noticed your inability to give a straight yes no answer....kinda telling. is there a universal truth that is unchanging...no matter what culture? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wirehairman Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 to some he is evil to the Nth degree.... to some he is an angel of mercy to the Nth degree.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheShiznit Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 There is a difference between being the tool and supplying the tools? Yes, have you ever read the republic. Virtue versus Vice? A hammer is neither full of virtue or full of vice. But that hammer can participate in vice as well as virtue....without actually effecting the standing of the hammer. The virtue of the hammer is to hammer nails and use it for what a hammer is made for. the vice of the hammer is to use it for things...like pummeling a skull....that it is not made to do. In this situation, it takes a human to wield the hammer. In Kevorkian's situation....he is not wielding the hammer....the patient is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukon Cornelius Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 to some he is an angel of mercy to the Nth degree.... exactly.. and i think he is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukon Cornelius Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 Yes, have you ever read the republic. Virtue versus Vice? A hammer is neither full of virtue or full of vice. But that hammer can participate in vice as well as virtue....without actually effecting the standing of the hammer. The virtue of the hammer is to hammer nails and use it for what a hammer is made for. the vice of the hammer is to use it for things...like pummeling a skull....that it is not made to do. In this situation, it takes a human to wield the hammer. In Kevorkian's situation....he is not wielding the hammer....the patient is. but he supplied the the hammer... if the hammer was not supplied the dead may not be accomplished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wirehairman Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 Yes, have you ever read the republic. Virtue versus Vice? A hammer is neither full of virtue or full of vice. But that hammer can participate in vice as well as virtue....without actually effecting the standing of the hammer. The virtue of the hammer is to hammer nails and use it for what a hammer is made for. the vice of the hammer is to use it for things...like pummeling a skull....that it is not made to do. In this situation, it takes a human to wield the hammer. In Kevorkian's situation....he is not wielding the hammer....the patient is. Let's see if I follow your logic correctly. A guy walks into a hardware store and asks a clerk, "What would be the best sledgehammer for bashing in the skull of the little old lady that lives next door to me and complains about my loud music all the time?" The clerk kindly replies, "This here Acme sledgehammer has a nice heft and should turn her old skull into paste." By your logic, after the guy brutally murders his neighbor, the clerk who knowingly sold the guy the sledgehammer and did not report anything is not evil but the guy wielding the hammer is? Am I on the right track? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Beatings Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 I shot the clerk? I shot the clerk? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wirehairman Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 (edited) IOW...there is not absolute truth...is that your position? All the other babbling aside....I noticed your inability to give a straight yes no answer....kinda telling. is there a universal truth that is unchanging...no matter what culture? I cannot speak for Yuke but do believe there is no universally agreed upon truth, whether it truly exists or not. Every culture (and individuals wihtin a culture to a lesser extent) all interpret this hypothesized truth differently. Edited March 13, 2008 by wirehairman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isleseeya Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 is it evil to kill someone if they are about to kill you?? No because your motive is not to kill but protect is it ok to kill someone because of there religious or ethnic back round?? no , thats murder and you're example is another that is way out there.. is it evil to torture an animal before you eat it.. Yes , because you are inflicting pain that is unnecessray there is truth, but someones truth may not be others... is the bible truth, the quran, the lds bible, the torah, the Bab writings... etc?? depends on your faith ..I take the Bible (New Testament ) to be true as i am a Christian ..I will not belittle , insult a jew for believing in Torah for example ...Not my job to be ultimate Judge is it evil to sleep with someones wife?? yes , its adultery ..a sin there are basic truths and morals and morays but they can and are interpreted differently. truth .....we are born, we live we die.... Answering one at a time above and directly ..I think i covered them well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheShiznit Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 but he supplied the the hammer... if the hammer was not supplied the dead may not be accomplished. Maybe, maybe not.....but he did not wield the hammer. Just think, if the company who made the hammer never produced one.....you see where this could go Yukon. The evil lies with the one wielding the hammer....period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isleseeya Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 Dr Kevorkian ...is not evil in his motives as if he is being sincere , he is trying to end suffering and pain for others ...He is however guilty of performing evil actions as he is ending a life that is not ending on its own This can tie into Soldiers in war Their motive is to protect themselves and fight for their countries needs ( and needs of fellow country men their family ) ...but the act of shooting and killing someone is evil Not always easy but evil can be defined Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheShiznit Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 I cannot speak for Yuke but do believe there is no universally agreed upon truth, whether it truly exists or not. Every culture (and individuals wihtin a culture to a lesser extent) all interpret this hypothesized truth differently. Well, then your contention is to answer this question with a truth...that there is no truth....so your universal truth is that there is no such thing as a universal truth.....what a conundrum? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheShiznit Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 Let's see if I follow your logic correctly. A guy walks into a hardware store and asks a clerk, "What would be the best sledgehammer for bashing in the skull of the little old lady that lives next door to me and complains about my loud music all the time?" The clerk kindly replies, "This here Acme sledgehammer has a nice heft and should turn her old skull into paste." By your logic, after the guy brutally murders his neighbor, the clerk who knowingly sold the guy the sledgehammer and did not report anything is not evil but the guy wielding the hammer is? Am I on the right track? Yep. Clerk didn't make the decision to bash the old lady's head in...that is my take. I would not like the decision by the clerk....but it is not evil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukon Cornelius Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 Answering one at a time above and directly ..I think i covered them well um, no but hay i see were you are coming from now.. have u ever herd of the Inuit.. read up on them survival drives a lot of what is evil and what is not.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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