AtomicCEO Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 yeah, you got me. the FY10 budget that obama is submitting with a $1.4 trillion deficit is bush's deficit. the trillion dollar stimulus bill, the 8% baseline spending increase on top of that in the FY09 omnibus, the massive expansion of government spending in all of the current budget proposals....all bush's fault. gotcha. You're saying a smarter answer is that Obama tanked the entire country in 1.5 months, and that Bush wasn't responsible. Yeah, you're right... that makes much more sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Neutron Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 You're saying a smarter answer is that Obama tanked the entire country in 1.5 months, and that Bush wasn't responsible.Yeah, you're right... that makes much more sense. Not many people believe that. All Az and others are trying to point out is the rate at which Obama and the dems are increasing the deficit and the fact that the CBO (long touted for its non-partisan nature) is saying Obama is wrong about his own budget. Plenty of dems linked CBO data when Bush published his cartoon budgets, but hey - why listen to them now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 The governmental forced bad mortgage loans alone made this as bad as it is in the US. Again with the totally incorrect right wing radio talking point. Question - how many of these loans did AIG make, exactly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted March 21, 2009 Author Share Posted March 21, 2009 You're saying a smarter answer is that Obama tanked the entire country in 1.5 months, and that Bush wasn't responsible. umm, no, that is not even close to what I said. what I said is that obama is proposing a budget blueprint with massive permanent spending increases that the CBO says creates trillion dollar deficits every year for the next 10 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 The governmental forced bad mortgage loans alone made this as bad as it is in the US. Without that, the US would have weathered this much better. If someone simply says it enough, people will believe it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicCEO Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 (edited) umm, no, that is not even close to what I said. what I said is that obama is proposing a budget blueprint with massive permanent spending increases that the CBO says creates trillion dollar deficits every year for the next 10 years. Then it sounds like you probably should have paid a little bit more attention before Jan 20th of this year, dumbass. Maybe we wouldn't be in such deep doo doo. I think it's more than a little ridiculous that you're someone who loudly vocally defiantly defended: - Massive deficit spending - Massive pointless unchecked war spending - Tax cuts in a time of increased deficit spending and pointless unchecked war spending ... and now all of a sudden you're concerned about the budget. Some of us have been saying for 8 years "This is dumb! This is pushing the debt onto the next generation! This has a history of causing recessions!" And now that we've got a dumb recession on the next generation, you've got the balls to still claim you know what's best????? And you want to complain about the method in which we undo the mess you made? REALLY????? Damn! I mean... DAMN! Edited March 21, 2009 by AtomicCEO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaP'N GRuNGe Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 (edited) yeah. The Bush administration created a world wide economic meltdown singlehandedly. I thought liberals were more attuned to other people and nations than that. The governmental forced bad mortgage loans alone made this as bad as it is in the US. Without that, the US would have weathered this much better. But "Bush is Stoopid" is an easier argument! Yeah, Bush wasn't involved at all in pushing questionable loans. Edited March 21, 2009 by CaP'N GRuNGe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Then it sounds like you probably should have paid a little bit more attention before Jan 20th of this year, dumbass. Maybe we wouldn't be in such deep doo doo. I think it's more than a little ridiculous that you're someone who loudly vocally defiantly defended: - Massive deficit spending - Massive pointless unchecked war spending - Tax cuts in a time of increased deficit spending and pointless unchecked war spending The initial CBO forecast on deficits has significant constant assumptions that won't come to frution, I'd assume this administration will pay attention to this. Nevertheless, listening to Az preach the pulpit on this is the equivalent to: - Steven Adler on living without drugs - Ike Turner on how you shouldn't beat women - Az on how you should not be munching Azz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 yeah, you got me. Yea, no kidding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcat2334 Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Then it sounds like you probably should have paid a little bit more attention before Jan 20th of this year, dumbass. Maybe we wouldn't be in such deep doo doo. I think it's more than a little ridiculous that you're someone who loudly vocally defiantly defended: - Massive deficit spending - Massive pointless unchecked war spending - Tax cuts in a time of increased deficit spending and pointless unchecked war spending ... and now all of a sudden you're concerned about the budget. Some of us have been saying for 8 years "This is dumb! This is pushing the debt onto the next generation! This has a history of causing recessions!" And now that we've got a dumb recession on the next generation, you've got the balls to still claim you know what's best????? And you want to complain about the method in which we undo the mess you made? REALLY????? Damn! I mean... DAMN! werd - it is mind-boggling to me how the righties are all of a sudden fiscally conservative after 8 years of W - I mean w-t-ph? and they continue with partisan bull- chit after W fiscally ran this country into the ground... maybe Obama will be like W and buck the trends of the budget forecast, and turn a negative into a positive, instead of the other way around Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 werd - it is mind-boggling to me how the righties are all of a sudden fiscally conservative after 8 years of W - I mean w-t-ph? Kind of weird how it doesn't boggle their minds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Neutron Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 werd - it is mind-boggling to me how the righties are all of a sudden fiscally conservative after 8 years of W - I mean w-t-ph? and they continue with partisan bull- chit after W fiscally ran this country into the ground... maybe Obama will be like W and buck the trends of the budget forecast, and turn a negative into a positive, instead of the other way around Plenty of fiscally conservative people hated what Bush did and hate what Obama is doing. The criticism of Obama is not all coming from Bush supporters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 yeah. The Bush administration created a world wide economic meltdown singlehandedly. I thought liberals were more attuned to other people and nations than that. The governmental forced bad mortgage loans alone made this as bad as it is in the US. Without that, the US would have weathered this much better. But "Bush is Stoopid" is an easier argument! Just felt like bumping the mind set Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimC Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Oooooh, say can you seeeeeee.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicCEO Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Plenty of fiscally conservative people hated what Bush did and hate what Obama is doing. The criticism of Obama is not all coming from Bush supporters. Maybe, but definitely not Az. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted March 22, 2009 Author Share Posted March 22, 2009 I won't bother pointing out all the times I disagreed with spending undertaken by the bush administration. I won't even bother going back and pointing out that every time there was controversy over baseline spending increases between bush and congressional democrats, it was democrats who wanted to spend MORE. I'm not going to waste any breath defending the bush administration record on the deficit, because it is not easy to defend. however, I'm not sure I understand how any of that argues in favor of MULTIPLYING the deficits piled up under bush and tripling the national debt obama inherited in 10 years. how does bush being bad on the deficit justify obama being worse? I'm not sure I get the logic. if it was for short term stimulus, perhaps you could defend it. but the problem with obama's current budget proposals is that the CBO predicts they will result in trillion dollar deficits 10 + years into the future. it's readily apparent that you all realize this, because of all the posts in this thread, not one has stepped up to praise the idea of spending that much money we don't have. it's nothing but deflection, excuses, blaming bush, etc. speaks volumes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 I won't bother pointing out all the times I disagreed with spending undertaken by the bush administration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 it's nothing but deflection, excuses, blaming bush, etc. It's also a total lack of belief that the predictions are in any way accurate. In fact, they are a total nonsense in the same way as an old crone staring into a crystal ball is nonsense. No-one can possibly predict all the events across the entire globe that would have effect on this prediction. Good grief, they even say so themselves. Any 10 year forecast is drivel - would anyone have predicted the current mess in 1999? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 It's also a total lack of belief that the predictions are in any way accurate. In fact, they are a total nonsense in the same way as an old crone staring into a crystal ball is nonsense. No-one can possibly predict all the events across the entire globe that would have effect on this prediction. Good grief, they even say so themselves. Any 10 year forecast is drivel - would anyone have predicted the current mess in 1999? It's stated in the article Az posted, but he refuses to acknowledge it. It's not like these projections can't be beneficial, but Az is just using it to wave his tardy flag; and everyone recognizes that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Neutron Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Any 10 year forecast is drivel - would anyone have predicted the current mess in 1999? Just this nut job... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Just this nut job... Looks like he's definitely half right: and reduce risk for individual institutions while increasing risk for the system as a whole. which is exactly what the individual companies did. Each was making it's own holes and the combined effort brought down the whole structure. And yet............ My main reasons for voting against this bill are the expansion of the taxpayer liability and the introduction of even more regulations. The entire multi-hundred page S. 900 that reregulates rather than deregulates the financial sector could be replaced with a simple one-page bill. He continues to campaign for less regulation, which flies in the face of preventing systemic risk. Given that individual companies care only about themselves, which is an absolute truth, who is to guard against systemic risk if not the government that Ron Paul so detests? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicCEO Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 however, I'm not sure I understand how any of that argues in favor of MULTIPLYING the deficits piled up under bush and tripling the national debt obama inherited in 10 years. For the same reason you defended unnecessary tax cuts in 2005... as a stimulus, only now we actually need it. Here's the deal, there was a recession starting in 2007 due to the things you defended and everyone said were going to cause a recession. Then we had a total banking collapse on top of it. Why are we spending twice as much as we should be? Because Bush really REALLY really f'd up the country, and we have two concurrent related financial problems going on. And we'd be much better off dealing with the banking collapse if Bush hadn't put our country in such amazing debt, but unfortunately we're kinda screwed right now. Multiple disasters = multiplying spending. Why don't you hop in your wayback machine and solve these problems from a position that isn't in a massive hole. Wouldn't that be cool? Or we could fast forward to 3 years in the future, where you'll be wrong about this as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Neutron Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Given that individual companies care only about themselves, which is an absolute truth, who is to guard against systemic risk if not the government that Ron Paul so detests? I don't buy into that. Certainly some companies will commit wrongs in the name of self-preservation and promotion. I think there are plenty of companies that operate using ethical and moral guidelines. As you have pointed out a number of times, not all banks got into subprime lending because they did not think it was worth the associated risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 I don't buy into that. Certainly some companies will commit wrongs in the name of self-preservation and promotion. I think there are plenty of companies that operate using ethical and moral guidelines. As you have pointed out a number of times, not all banks got into subprime lending because they did not think it was worth the associated risk. The point nevertheless is that the big banks DID blow the system up. Who will stop this if not the government? BTW, I should have limited my statement to large financial companies rather than all companies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaP'N GRuNGe Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Caught part of a pretty good interview with Spitzer on Zakaria today on CNN. Spitzer talked about how libertarianism got us into this mess but also warned that we can't swing too far the other way as populism can get out of hand with all the faux populist outrage in congress for example. Was a pretty good interview and made alot of sense. Never really knew much about the guy except for the hooker scandal, but after listening to him a bit I came away somewhat impressed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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