More theft?

[Perchoutofwater]

Food, shelter, and even education is easy. Mentors? Like Big Brothers? When I was working community mental health I forget how many years of a waiting list there was for Big Brothers.

 

I disagree with your point and I do so enthusiastically. Most of these kids need a hell of a lot more than a little discipline and structure.

 

Children are egocentric in their thinking. They are unable to take on the perspective of others s(lowly, over time, this changes). Have you ever heard that when children learn that their parents are getting divorced, they assume that this is happening because of their bad behavior and they promise to be good from now on? The children believe that their bad behavior led to their parents' divorce because of egocentric thinking.

 

Now, what does a child come to believe about himself when he is neglected by his mother and/or father? You know, it is quite typical for a child to believe that his parent has rejected/abandoned him when he is removed from his parent's care by Family Services. And because children are egocentric in their thinking, the child comes to believe that there must be something wrong with him or why would his mother abandon him? Thus the seeds of depression and low self-concept are born. When one believes that one is a loser, one does not seek to make improvements. Why? Because deep down, the child knows he will fail and it is too much to have to face that failure so instead, the child simply does not try.

 

Imagine what relationships are like for these kids. Ever seen a woman go from one abusive relationship to another? 99 times out of 100, as a little girl, she was abused in some way. You start working with them and deep down, they seek out losers because they KNOW they'll be rejected by good men. It all goes back to childhood.

 

I'm really--and I mean really, only scratching the surface for the type of psychological/emotional problems many of these children develop. By the time many of these kids become involved with Family Services, a little discipline and a little structure is not going to make a dent. Because deep down, they know that these new foster parents are going to reject/abandon them. They know this because deep down, these kids know there is nothing lovable about them. And rather than have to face more rejection, these kids will subconsciously sabotage a good placement because at least they can tell themselves that they weren't rejected again. This time, it was their decision.

 

I've a bit of professional experience in this area.

 

I will have to defer to your professional knowledge of the subject. I can only speak on the one example I've had living with me for the last few years. It sounds like he might be the exception rather than the rule. I will say It did take him a while to warm up to the family, but I think he over came this because we treated him with respect, demanded respect form him, and treated him like a member of the family.

[untateve]

I will have to defer to your professional knowledge of the subject. I can only speak on the one example I've had living with me for the last few years. It sounds like he might be the exception rather than the rule. I will say It did take him a while to warm up to the family, but I think he over came this because we treated him with respect, demanded respect form him, and treated him like a member of the family.

 

I promise you, he is the exception.

[Perchoutofwater]

You're going to need to elaborate a bit on this. I am not familiar with government muscling charities "out of business" in this regard.

 

When the government takes peoples money to pay for services, people are less likely to give to charities that provide the same services. In many cases they feel they have already given to that cause through their forced contributions. Things that were handled on the local level either via local governments or charities in many cases no longer are, because government now provides those services. A perfect example is look at the rebuilding of Galveston 100 years ago and rebuilding of N.O. after Katrina. Galveston was pretty much rebuilt by the people of Galveston not the government, and it was all done in basically a year. N.O. is still being rebuilt primarily by the government.

[bushwacked]

I don't.

 

So when you said every effort should be made and then defined what you meant you were completely talking out of your ass.

[Perchoutofwater]

I promise you, he is the exception.

 

I do know of three other exceptions that are almost identical situations, where families have decided to take the kids in outside the foster care system. In all cases the families are fairly religious, and in all cases the kids have thrived. I attribute this to the families actually caring for the kids, and not just looking for the government paycheck. I'm sure there are some really good foster parents out there in the system, but the majority of them I view as just one step up form the welfare mom in this story. Basically using these kids to get a bigger check.

[Perchoutofwater]

So when you said every effort should be made and then defined what you meant you were completely talking out of your ass.

 

Obviously your head is so far up your ass you can't read what is written and hold a coherent thought. I said I don't suppose to do it without forced charity, though I'd rather keep that forced charity to a minimum, finding families that are willing to take the kids in without compensation, because it is the right thing to do, and they are in a position to do it.

[SEC=UGA]

[Azazello1313]

Food, shelter, and even education is easy. Mentors? Like Big Brothers? When I was working community mental health I forget how many years of a waiting list there was for Big Brothers.

 

I disagree with your point and I do so enthusiastically. Most of these kids need a hell of a lot more than a little discipline and structure.

 

Children are egocentric in their thinking. They are unable to take on the perspective of others s(lowly, over time, this changes). Have you ever heard that when children learn that their parents are getting divorced, they assume that this is happening because of their bad behavior and they promise to be good from now on? The children believe that their bad behavior led to their parents' divorce because of egocentric thinking.

 

Now, what does a child come to believe about himself when he is neglected by his mother and/or father? You know, it is quite typical for a child to believe that his parent has rejected/abandoned him when he is removed from his parent's care by Family Services. And because children are egocentric in their thinking, the child comes to believe that there must be something wrong with him or why would his mother abandon him? Thus the seeds of depression and low self-concept are born. When one believes that one is a loser, one does not seek to make improvements. Why? Because deep down, the child knows he will fail and it is too much to have to face that failure so instead, the child simply does not try.

 

Imagine what relationships are like for these kids. Ever seen a woman go from one abusive relationship to another? 99 times out of 100, as a little girl, she was abused in some way. You start working with them and deep down, they seek out losers because they KNOW they'll be rejected by good men. It all goes back to childhood.

 

I'm really--and I mean really, only scratching the surface for the type of psychological/emotional problems many of these children develop. By the time many of these kids become involved with Family Services, a little discipline and a little structure is not going to make a dent. Because deep down, they know that these new foster parents are going to reject/abandon them. They know this because deep down, these kids know there is nothing lovable about them. And rather than have to face more rejection, these kids will subconsciously sabotage a good placement because at least they can tell themselves that they weren't rejected again. This time, it was their decision.

 

I've a bit of professional experience in this area.

 

ok, so you want to rip perch's head off for saying that "all these kids need" are the right kinds of influences. point taken. many clearly have problems that will not be fixed by direction and discipline and structure. and yet, if there is one thing that WOULD make the most difference for the most kids, direction/discipline/structure would seem to be high on the list, wouldn't it? what exactly would you propose that would make a greater impact on more kids?

[Perchoutofwater]

You make so many absolute statements through several posts you can't even keep track of how many times you contradict yourself. When you try to rationalize points with retarded jibber jabber like this:

 

 

 

It makes it all the harder for everyone here to take you seriously.

 

Dude, does your reading comprehension suck that bad, or are you just trying to take what I said out of context? I said we're past the point of doing it without government help. That is something I view as unfortunate. Damn did you forget your ritalin this morning?

[bushwacked]

Obviously your head is so far up your ass you can't read what is written and hold a coherent thought. I said I don't suppose to do it without forced charity, though I'd rather keep that forced charity to a minimum, finding families that are willing to take the kids in without compensation, because it is the right thing to do, and they are in a position to do it.

 

Oh, that's what by any means necessary means.

[untateve]

I do know of three other exceptions that are almost identical situations, where families have decided to take the kids in outside the foster care system. In all cases the families are fairly religious, and in all cases the kids have thrived. I attribute this to the families actually caring for the kids, and not just looking for the government paycheck. I'm sure there are some really good foster parents out there in the system, but the majority of them I view as just one step up form the welfare mom in this story. Basically using these kids to get a bigger check.

 

 

Again, this is four situations with which you are familiar. I have probably evaluated/treated more than a thousand of these children. Your experience is the exception.

[bushwacked]

Dude, does your reading comprehension suck that bad, or are you just trying to take what I said out of context? I said we're past the point of doing it without government help.

 

This is what you said every effort means; no specification whether it comes from private or social programs; or a combination of both. :

 

You provide them with food, shelter, education, and mentors. Try to find families that will take them in and care for them. Try to have them learn from someone who is responsible. There are plenty of families willing to take in kids (provided they aren't already so screwed up that they pose threat to the family).

 

How is every effort for every child made by private charity alone? How can you be for it but against it?

 

Apparently you're for every effort up until a certain magical Perch point when you become offended by how much the govt. comes into play?

Edited April 29, 2010 by bushwacked

[Perchoutofwater]

Seriously,

 

Does anyone besides Bushwacko have a problem following what I've said? Not asking if you necessarily agree with it, but is anyone else as confused is he is?

[Azazello1313]

So when you said every effort should be made and then defined what you meant you were completely talking out of your ass.

 

you know, it seems as though perch has put his proverbial money where his mouth is when it comes to this issue. I won't ask whether you've done the same, because it is totally irrelevant. but your little b*tchy haranguing seems rather out of place.