Any fair way to have seperate drafts ?

[Big Country]

Then why is Ryan Mathews being taken in the top 20 picks over players like D-Williams ?

 

1.11 SKY T 2 HOTTY Mathews, Ryan SDC RB

2.07 Team Legacy Best, Jahvid DET RB

3.09 Licensed to Chill Bryant, Dez DAL WR

3.12 Cavalier King Charles Williams, DeAngelo CAR RB

 

$1250 FFPC Dynasty start up draft.

 

Explain

 

At work, so can't pull up ADP sites at the moment, but using a single league's draft as your definitive source to push your point is a very weak piece of evidence.

 

To the point, if someone wants to give the 30th vet pick for the #2 rookie pick, then they can go for it. They are adults, should be allowed to manager their teams as they see fit.

Because the rules in my league are 1st round picks must go on your roster and 2nd-7th you get your option, Roster or taxi.

 

The 1st rounders need to go on the roster so you take on salary.

 

Kinda like the NBA draft. The 1st rounders get guarenteed contracts and 2nd rounders don't.

 

It's the same deal.

 

Fair enough. A rule that I do not care for, but fair enough.

 

Ok if I do 2 seperate drafts (like I already did in 1997) and someone draws a top 4 pick in both drafts while another team draws a bottom 4 pick in both drafts.

 

I just say congrats you hit the lottery to the 1st guy and sorry about your luck to the 2nd guy ?

 

Is that the type of league you want to be in ?

 

Just asking. If it is that is fine. Your willing to just let fate deal out the hand of greatness to some and death to others ?

 

I did it this way in 1997 and I drew the last rookie pick slot. Lucky for me 1997 might have been the worst rookie draft of all time.

 

 

Your league, you set the rules and you live by them. If the owners agree to a random draw for both drafts when signing up, then yes, you say tough, may you draft well.

[delusions of grandeur]

First a big no to designating certain rounds to start allowing rookies. Now, with a DTS, there is a slightly better aergument for allowing a separate draft for rookies, but, not all owners will want to put all of their rookies on the DTS, and, with allowing any player in their first 3 years on to the DTS, players in the non-rookie draft would be eligible for the DTS as well, thus, I revert back to my preferred thoughts of initial year player distribution which is to let your owners determine how to best fill out their rosters in the initial year of the league. If they want to take Matthews in the first round and DTS him, they should be allowed to if they so wish, realizing that this likely strengthens them in the future at the cost of the immediate term.

 

 

ETA: Your setup in terms of contract year cap is very similar to what is done in AFL. Unfortunately, I was not in the league in its initial year, just took over an orphaned team in need of some tending.

 

Thanks. I think we will likely just combine the two drafts. My only concern is people drafting rookies too early, since this will be all of our first dynasty league.... And as for the format it's the same story here. I took over an orphan team in a BoTH league, so was also not around for the startup... I think it was done seperately if I'm not mistaken (Opie?)

 

Trust me you will want more than 4-6 spot.

We will eventually expand rosters, but being that this is a dynasty noob league, we're going to start smaller.

 

But as for your last post, I don't think anyone was advocating random order in both drafts except the one stubborn owner in your league. If you're going to do 2 drafts, then it should absolutely be reverse order from the snake draft. Tell the dude he's going to have to compromise if he wants to convince you all to separate them.

Edited July 6, 2010 by delusions of granduer

[Big Country]

Thanks. I think we will likely just combine the two drafts. My only concern is people drafting rookies too early, since this will be all of our first dynasty league.... And as for the format it's the same story here. I took over an orphan team in a BoTH league, so was also not around for the startup... I think it was done seperately if I'm not mistaken (Opie?)

 

 

IMO, this happens with experienced dyansty drafters and noobs alike. It is all part of the valuation process owners go through. Some really value rookies and youth in general when building a dynasty, other stick with tried and true and load up on veterans in a bid to win now, and others go middle of the road. To me, it is one of the best parts of a dyansty league. You also get some great trade deadline activity, much like you see in MLB and NBA and to some extent the NFL, with teams trading away youth and future picks for a win now veteran, and teams that are all but out of the current year race maneuvering for future value.

[Jackass]

Because the rules in my league are 1st round picks must go on your roster and 2nd-7th you get your option, Roster or taxi.

 

The 1st rounders need to go on the roster so you take on salary.

 

Kinda like the NBA draft. The 1st rounders get guarenteed contracts and 2nd rounders don't.

 

It's the same deal.

 

Isn't that giving even more of an advantage to people who draft the top picks since people who draft at the bottom are going to have roster players that aren't going to be used much, if at all this year? Seems like that runs counter to the argument you're making?

Edited July 7, 2010 by Jackass

[MTSuper7]

To answer your earlier question, Henry, I wouldn't want to be in a league where luck of the draw could land me a bottom 3-4 rook pick and a bottom 3-4 vet pick. I'm not sure why anyone would want to be in a league like that... Having the rook draft go reverse order of the vet draft is the most common thing I've seen. Taz makes a good point - nobody knows how a rookie will pan out, as there are no guarantees. A proven young vet with a good 3-4 years left in the tank is a safer bet than the #1 rook pick most seasons. How do we know Ryan Mathews will pan out? Is it possible that San Diego actually stinks at run blocking and that the Chargers reached for Mathews? Tons more uncertainty with a rookie like that, dude. So your whole 1-24-150 vs. 12-13-14 argument really holds no water because rookies are a different animal whose value is quite mysterious until we see some regular season NFL games under their belts.

[Henry Muto]

I am not pulling 1 draft of info up when I tell you this. 1st your never going to find the ADP of a DYNASTY START UP DRAFT.

 

not going to exist. ADP of a redraft won't take into account what will happen in a dynasty start up.

 

2nd I have actually looked at over 50 start up drafts maybe even up to 100 because I been trying to find rules others use and I am going to be in a start up so I want to know where players are going.

 

Mathews goes in the top 25 picks in 90%+ of them

 

Bryant went 8th overall in 1 of them

 

Remember D-Will is 28 years old who do you want D-Will for 2-3 years or Mathews for 6-8 years ?

Bryant for 10-12 years ?

[jrobertz]

Henry,

 

If there is a cap in your league could you possibly auction off the rookie draft spots? That gives everyone a chance to get the picks, but it comes at a cost.

 

I am not saying that is a conventional way of handling this situation, but it seems like another idea that you have probaly not considered. Hell i have spent quite a while contemplating how to help you with this one.

[Henry Muto]

back to this topic because I am still trying to do a new start up dyansty league and some people in my league refuse to have only 1 draft and some refuse to have 2 drafts ? There are pros and cons to each.

 

The 1 draft method makes things fairer because anyone can decide when they want to draft a rookie. If you really want a rookie you go take him.

The bad part is this can really wreck your team for the 1st season if you take the rookies early on which you will need to do to get a few of them.

 

Having seperate drafts keeps teams from wrecking their team but there is absolutly no possible way to even out the picks.

 

The #1 rookie pick is worth 10x the #12 pick, and at least double what the #2 rookie pick is worth.

 

If you do a random draw for both seperate drafts someone could luck into a top 4 pick in both and hit the lottery.

 

I had a friend who in 2004 got #2 pick in his start up draft in both the regular and rookie drafts.

 

He took LT and Fitz in those drafts and went undefeated in 1 of the years and won 2 bowls his 1st 3 years.

 

All because of luck of the draw. How is that fair ? It is fair in a sense that anyone can get lucky but man if you draw #10 and #12 it sure sucks.

And for that team that draws #4 and #1 they hit the winning jackpot.

 

If you use reverse order of original draft then the weight goes the other way. Mathews went 15th overall in my draft I just did.

 

So if you get the 12/13 you are getting a free 2nd round pick.

 

The people getting the 1-6 picks get basically a 10th round pick in the rookies they get.

 

It is a no win situation.

[Big Country]

back to this topic because I am still trying to do a new start up dyansty league and some people in my league refuse to have only 1 draft and some refuse to have 2 drafts ? There are pros and cons to each.

 

The 1 draft method makes things fairer because anyone can decide when they want to draft a rookie. If you really want a rookie you go take him.

The bad part is this can really wreck your team for the 1st season if you take the rookies early on which you will need to do to get a few of them.

 

Having seperate drafts keeps teams from wrecking their team but there is absolutly no possible way to even out the picks.

 

 

So you are saying that you support mandating how owners build their teams?

 

 

If an owner wans to use early picks on rookie picks, they do so knowing full well that it "may" mean lesser performance initially, with potential greater payoff down the road in a dynasty league.

[Henry Muto]

So you are saying that you support mandating how owners build their teams?

 

 

If an owner wans to use early picks on rookie picks, they do so knowing full well that it "may" mean lesser performance initially, with potential greater payoff down the road in a dynasty league.

 

Great now if you can only convince the guy who wrote me this email when I said there would be only 1 draft.

 

What's the point of having 1? All drafting one does is give everyone a shot at the blue chipper they want without having to pay for it.

 

I think that is a bad idea. You are taking value from something.

 

I don't know why you of all people are in favor of this.

 

They shouldn't be in the regular draft because there really aren't many rookies that are worth a high pick but you'd have to use a high pick to get them which will make you lose now. That's pretty stupid.

 

Who gives you a better team and better chance to win right now, Boldin or Bryant? That is an easy question. Boldin. Who would you rather have for the remainder of their carrer? That is also an easy question. Bryant. They are both likely to be drafted in about the same area of a draft if it's all inclusive.

 

I don't think that's right and I think it's a terrible idea.

[Big Country]

Just tell him - That what he describes is the whole point - each owner actually has to make a decision about how he would prefer to build his team. Bukld for the now with a veteran like Boldin, or use said pick to build for the long term, with potential immediate return, with a guy like Bryant.

 

Tell him that it is a terrible idea to tell owners who they can and can not draft when they wish to. His first sentence describes it all - it gives everyone a shot at the players they want, and they do have to pay for it by using their pick, often times earlier than would be normal in a redraft league due to the nature of a dynasty league.

 

Sounds like the one owner that is arguing the point is afraid that someone will use that early pick on a guy like Bryant or Matthews, getting a good long term prospect, and that the rookie may actually perform better than the veteran he might take instead looking at the now.

[Henry Muto]

My draft is coming up here soon and it seems my league wants 2 seperate drafts.

 

What do you think about this idea to make it more fair. They want 2 complete seperate draws.

 

So what if off the top the person who gets the 1st rookie pick then gets last rookie pick in all other rounds and vice versa so the #12 guy gets 1st in the rest of the rookie draft.

 

#1 would look like this 1,24,36,48,60,72,84

#12 would look like this 12,13,25,37,49,61,73

 

Then we also take the 3rd and 4th rounds of the regular draft and do the opposite of the rookie pick

 

The guy with the #1 rookie pick gets both the 36 and 48

The guy with the #12 rookie pick gets both the 25 and 37

 

Everyone else falls in line after that.

 

Would this be enough to make things at least somewhat fairer ?

 

Thoughts ?