The Right to Vote

[Azazello1313]

I compare that to, say, the fact that we spend more on defense than the next 18 countries combined. I mean, we've all seen the graphs, it's astounding. That would seem like a lot of money to me. But mention this as a possible issue and you're weakening the country. We spend more than 10x the next highest country in the world. Don't you think we could limp by if we spent, say, 5x as much as the next highest country? I mean, technically we're friends with most of these guys, so it's not like we need to be that much better armed than everyone else of any consequence combined. And if we do, then there really is something wrong.

 

that's a little misleading because, 1) our GDP is higher than the next several nations combined, and 2) a few of those countries right behind us in GDP are countries we defeated in WWII and basically didn't allow to re-arm. add to that the fact that we've basically been defending all of western europe on our dime for the past several decades. but yeah, we just can't afford to be the world's policeman anymore. I'm not sure what that has to do with the point you were answering though.

[SEC=UGA]

Defense Spending equates to 4.7% of GDP, Education 5.7% of GDP. We can destroy any country in the world if we want to... We can't out add a student from the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Poland, or Hungary (Among many others)

[untateve]

Defense Spending equates to 4.7% of GDP, Education 5.7% of GDP. We can destroy any country in the world if we want to... We can't out add a student from the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Poland, or Hungary (Among many others)

 

As long as we can destroy them, who cares if can't out add them?

[TimC]

Defense Spending equates to 4.7% of GDP, Education 5.7% of GDP. We can destroy any country in the world if we want to... We can't out add a student from the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Poland, or Hungary (Among many others)

 

Because they are so poor, they only need to add to 12.

[SEC=UGA]

As long as we can destroy them, who cares if can't out add them?

 

There is always that.

[detlef]

that's a little misleading because, 1) our GDP is higher than the next several nations combined, and 2) a few of those countries right behind us in GDP are countries we defeated in WWII and basically didn't allow to re-arm. add to that the fact that we've basically been defending all of western europe on our dime for the past several decades. but yeah, we just can't afford to be the world's policeman anymore. I'm not sure what that has to do with the point you were answering though.

I realize the GDP thing but wonder if the two actually need to be attached. One would think that defense spending would be as much attached to population as it is to GDP.

 

My point, however, is the one you got. That we simply don't need to populate the world with our bases and run around playing police.

 

As to why I brought it up. It was simply to provide context into the welfare queen bit that gets brought up all the time. I'm not saying it isn't a problem, but I guess I would like to know how big it is. I've employed plenty of people at pretty low wages, the very types who one would argue would realize that it's better to not work and just suck off the Gov't teet. And I just don't see that happening. And it's not like everyone I've ever hired is some highly motivated person. But the guys who get canned end up showing up at some other restaurant in short time, not on the dole.

 

But this gets brought up like it's the single biggest thing taking our country down. That we're so hell bent on robbing from the rich that a huge chunk of our population doesn't even bother trying. The logic behind that is misguided on two levels. Level one is the fact that the progressive tax rates actually make being rich a bad thing or at least that there's actually a threshold where taxes actually become a hardship. Level two is that welfare is so cool that there's just no reason to bother working.

 

So, a tangent to be sure, but there you go.

[Yukon Cornelius]

Defense Spending equates to 4.7% of GDP, Education 5.7% of GDP. We can destroy any country in the world if we want to... We can't out add a student from the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Poland, or Hungary (Among many others)

your perception of American students is way off. as is your spending on defense.

[Azazello1313]

As to why I brought it up. It was simply to provide context into the welfare queen bit that gets brought up all the time. I'm not saying it isn't a problem, but I guess I would like to know how big it is. I've employed plenty of people at pretty low wages, the very types who one would argue would realize that it's better to not work and just suck off the Gov't teet. And I just don't see that happening. And it's not like everyone I've ever hired is some highly motivated person. But the guys who get canned end up showing up at some other restaurant in short time, not on the dole.

 

But this gets brought up like it's the single biggest thing taking our country down. That we're so hell bent on robbing from the rich that a huge chunk of our population doesn't even bother trying. The logic behind that is misguided on two levels. Level one is the fact that the progressive tax rates actually make being rich a bad thing or at least that there's actually a threshold where taxes actually become a hardship. Level two is that welfare is so cool that there's just no reason to bother working.

 

well I will just speak for myself here, but to the extent I fret about the "welfare queen" kind of stuff, the problem IMO certainly isn't the dollar amount we spend directly on such programs. the thing I am wary of are the economic incentives embedded in the tax and social services codes that essentially lead people into that sort of lifestyle. the more you make it comfortable on the lower end of the economic spectrum, and the steeper you make the slope (with phased out subsidies and implicit marginal tax rates) between them and a more prosperous life, the fewer people you can expect to make that climb. it's not like a switch goes on and everybody decides "welfare is so cool I'm not going to work"....economic incentives aren't absolute on an individual basis -- people have other motivations, and differing levels of initiative. but on a societal level, yes people respond to economic incentives predictably and inexorably. and this is not a question of race or station -- ALL people respond to incentives. you make it just a little bit "cooler" to be on government assistance, just a few more cents on the dollar less worthwhile to try and work your way off the dole and yes, you ensure that huge numbers of people make slightly different decisions, resulting in fewer people working, people doing less work, etc. the true cost of a "welfare queen" isn't just the dollar amount paid out by society in government benefits, but also (especially) the lost productivity and contribution.

[Ursa Majoris]

I realize the GDP thing but wonder if the two actually need to be attached. One would think that defense spending would be as much attached to population as it is to GDP.

I'd have thought defense needs to be on a "this is enough" basis. Population doesn't really enter into it, otherwise China and India would have budgets three times ours. It should be a function strictly of what it takes to defend / deter others from attacking home turf and alliances entered into.

 

There's an easy 10% that could be carved off defense without any weakening at all. Enough to fund Obamacare.......

[SEC=UGA]

your perception of American students is way off. as is your spending on defense.

Well, my figure on defense spending came from googleing "US Defense Spending GDP". The Rankings for the US students came from the OECD and those countries ranked ahead of us in Mathematics.

Edited November 4, 2010 by SEC=UGA

[Scourge]

Maybe a better question is what is the point in voting when none of the candidates follow through with what is promised no matter who we elect? They say what they think the public wants to hear in order to get elected and then head on with their own personal agenda. They are lying, cheating backstabbers who are sucking this country dry and none of them seem to give a rats ass about "the people" once they get in office.

 

This

[Kid Cid]

This

Please see untateve's post above.