The Top Wage Earners

[driveby]

Please find me a post from anywhere in my seven years here that has me saying "evil rich".

 

TIA.

It's implied. You're clever that way.

[Ursa Majoris]

What drives the average wage down, unemployment? People losing their jobs, then taking lower paying jobs? I see this idea tossed around all the time but don't know where those statistics come from.

Forced pay cuts too.

[yo mama]

Please find me a post from anywhere in my seven years here that has me saying "evil rich".

 

TIA.

You didn't. He's arguing about things he thinks you think.

[TimC]

Lemme see......do I want to survive on 98.5% of $39,653 or 92.3% of $90,468,000?

 

Decisions, decisions.......

 

Eddie Izzard is the funniest. I love his skit on "cake or death":

 

(language)

 

Edited November 4, 2010 by TimC

[Azazello1313]

What drives the average wage down, unemployment? People losing their jobs, then taking lower paying jobs? I see this idea tossed around all the time but don't know where those statistics come from.

 

well, a bad economy basically. it results in downward pressure on wages overall. if anything, the average wage should probably come down further to get the economy moving. but in any case, as long as the income of the rich is coming down faster, ursa's happy.

[Ursa Majoris]

You didn't. He's arguing about things he thinks you think.

Indeed.

 

My sole point in the numerous threads about the increasing gap between the very rich and the rest is simple - the tide that affects us all MUST provide relatively equal benefits. That's all. No punitive taxes, no Robin Hood-ism, no sending the rich to reeducation camps (except bankers, who should be publicly disemboweled), just a realization that no-one does things alone.

 

Lots of private companies follow this philosophy to the letter, ensuring that everyone involved benefits (and of course the top guy should benefit the most). I don't see why it should be different anywhere.

[SEC=UGA]

Forced pay cuts too.

 

You'd rather them be unemployed?

[Jimmy Neutron]

well, a bad economy basically. it results in downward pressure on wages overall. if anything, the average wage should probably come down further to get the economy moving. but in any case, as long as the income of the rich is coming down faster, ursa's happy.

 

I wonder how common that is. I've read news stories of it happening - has it happened a lot? It seems much more common that raises and bonuses are cut or eliminated. Are there really that many companies/jobs out there that have cut wages enough to drive this number down for the whole country?

[gbpfan1231]

Please find me a post from anywhere in my seven years here that has me saying "evil rich".

 

TIA.

Way too avoid the actual point - OK maybe you never said the words evil rich - you constantly harp on this wage gap and also believe that the rich should pay higher taxes than the less fortunate. I think it is obvious from your posts that you think it is not "fair".

 

The point is.... why should my boss be treated any differently and looked down upon compared to this other person. My boss risked everything by starting up this company and he is asked to pay a bigger share of taxes because "he can afford it".

 

I am thinking this gap issue is as much the fault of lower class because they just don't give a crap. Just look around and take notice of how many idiots are out there that do nothing to better themselves and in my opinion they are the people that are causing this gap. I guess if we just keep throwing money at them (from the rich) all will work itself out.

[Azazello1313]

Please find me a post from anywhere in my seven years here that has me saying "evil rich".

 

just for kicks I just did a search...."evil rich" doesn't appear to be part of your prefereed terminology. what I did find were a lot of instances of you talking about "evil government" when trying to characterize the views of people you disagree with, despite the fact that nobody you disagreed with had called government "evil". in other words, lots of instances of you doing exactly what you're complaining about here.

[SEC=UGA]

I wonder how common that is. I've read news stories of it happening - has it happened a lot? It seems much more common that raises and bonuses are cut or eliminated. Are there really that many companies/jobs out there that have cut wages enough to drive this number down for the whole country?

 

Or... perhaps the lesson here is that if they can screw up a simple calculation based on 74 tax returns, or fail to find inconsistencies in those returns, that just maybe the calcs for the other, oh, say, 80 million or so tax returns are just as screwed up?

[Ursa Majoris]

You'd rather them be unemployed?

Take NWA as an example. The employees there took multiple pay cuts in order to save their jobs. When the airline came out of bankruptcy, $400 million was put aside for executive bonuses - the same executives that led the airline into bankruptcy in the first place. Furthermore, that $400 million was the money saved from the pay cuts the rank and file took.

 

So, sure, I get why pay cuts are put in place.

[Azazello1313]

I wonder how common that is. I've read news stories of it happening - has it happened a lot? It seems much more common that raises and bonuses are cut or eliminated. Are there really that many companies/jobs out there that have cut wages enough to drive this number down for the whole country?

 

well some of it's happening with reduced hours and such. but mostly the average wage coming down is probably a result of higher paying jobs being the ones with targets on them in times when the budget is in crisis.

[Ursa Majoris]

Way too avoid the actual point - OK maybe you never said the words evil rich - you constantly harp on this wage gap and also believe that the rich should pay higher taxes than the less fortunate. I think it is obvious from your posts that you think it is not "fair".

 

The point is.... why should my boss be treated any differently and looked down upon compared to this other person. My boss risked everything by starting up this company and he is asked to pay a bigger share of taxes because "he can afford it".

 

I am thinking this gap issue is as much the fault of lower class because they just don't give a crap. Just look around and take notice of how many idiots are out there that do nothing to better themselves and in my opinion they are the people that are causing this gap. I guess if we just keep throwing money at them (from the rich) all will work itself out.

Difficult to know where to start with all this, but let's have a shot at it. I'll respond to the bolded parts in order.

 

1. I doubt you'll find me saying anything about "it's not fair".

2. "Looked down upon"? How so?

3. Define "lower class". All my posts on this subject have been the differential between the very top 1% or 2% and the rest. Are we to assume that 98% of people are "lower class"?

4. You won't have to look very hard to find posts of mine condemning welfare leeches, if that's who you're talking about. If you think that's my point, you have missed it altogether.

[SEC=UGA]

Take NWA as an example. The employees there took multiple pay cuts in order to save their jobs. When the airline came out of bankruptcy, $400 million was put aside for executive bonuses - the same executives that led the airline into bankruptcy in the first place. Furthermore, that $400 million was the money saved from the pay cuts the rank and file took.

 

So, sure, I get why pay cuts are put in place.

 

But not all are evil!!

 

But when Delta Air Lines emerged from Bankruptcy in April of this year, CEO Gerald Grinstein actually turned down 10 million dollars in stock awards and reduced his pay to $338,000. Delta employees had taken cuts in pay and benefits of up to 40 percent.

[gbpfan1231]

Difficult to know where to start with all this, but let's have a shot at it. I'll respond to the bolded parts in order.

 

1. I doubt you'll find me saying anything about "it's not fair".

2. "Looked down upon"? How so?

3. Define "lower class". All my posts on this subject have been the differential between the very top 1% or 2% and the rest. Are we to assume that 98% of people are "lower class"?

4. You won't have to look very hard to find posts of mine condemning welfare leeches, if that's who you're talking about. If you think that's my point, you have missed it altogether.

Nevermind - from now on I will make note of every exact word that you have said. My bad.

[bushwacked]

You didn't. He's arguing about things he thinks you think.

 

Right, it' s his MO. He can't debate what you think, so he''ll debate "what he wants you to think."

 

 

"Well, that's a liberal point of view. And liberals outlaw happy meals and kill babies."

[gbpfan1231]

Right, it' s his MO. He can't debate what you think, so he''ll debate "what he wants you to think."

 

 

"Well, that's a liberal point of view. And liberals outlaw happy meals and kill babies."

You guys are actually correct - I was debating what I thought Ursa meant. Looks like I was wrong - I remember reading a lot of his posts in topics about the wage gap and I thought he was all for trying to shrink the gap - I did not know that he was specific against a few people that are at the top 1% that don't deserve what they have made - I agree with him on a big part of that.

 

I also know that I am way out of my league when it comes to debating with most people here - I can tell by reading the posts that people like Ursa, Az, SEC, BP are much smarter than I am - I throw in my two cents and actually enjoy reading what those people have to say.

 

My main point was that there are 1,000's and 1,000's of people on the bottom end of the scale that either cheat the system or don't even try to better themselves and that is as big of an issue with the gap as the top 1%.

 

What did this topic have to do with Happy Meals? I did mention that in a different topic because of the legislation that passed in San Francisco. If you agree with what passed you are nuts and the people that passed that legislation were liberals - no doubt about it.

 

I will give you credit for one thing - If your attempt is to be a tool - You are great at it.

[Ursa Majoris]

You guys are actually correct - I was debating what I thought Ursa meant. Looks like I was wrong - I remember reading a lot of his posts in topics about the wage gap and I thought he was all for trying to shrink the gap - I did not know that he was specific against a few people that are at the top 1% that don't deserve what they have made - I agree with him on a big part of that.

To clarify, my thoughts are that in an ideal "rising tide lifts all boats" scenario, everyone rises. There are a ton of factors why this is never going to happen, including your point about the bums, leeches and sheer lazy bastards. I also don't see any reason why entrepreneurs who create businesses and anyone with in-demand talent shouldn't make bank. This is not politics of envy stuff.

 

If I had to sum things up I would say this. I see the whole nation as an enterprise in and of itself, thus the crew of said enterprise mostly are contributing to it's success in some role or another. If national wealth grows, it's right that the benefits of that should flow everywhere, not just into a tiny portion of the crew. This isn't to diminish that tiny portion's contribution in any way, it's just pointing out that no-one does things alone.

 

Private, smaller companies generally seem to understand this way better than big public ones, for whatever reason, although that's a generalization that has many exceptions, no doubt. Successful private enterprises (like the one I work for) value their employees and make sure they share in success, so an increase in company wealth really does lift all boats. I'd like that to be the same for the USS United States of America. That's it, really.

[Yukon Cornelius]

My main point was that there are 1,000's and 1,000's of people on the bottom end of the scale that either cheat the system or don't even try to better themselves and that is as big of an issue with the gap as the top 1%.

money wise it doesn't.