McDonalds sued for enticing children

[The Mucca]

yup.

 

While we're at it, way too many schools are feeding those turds all those cheetos, soda and candy. That's gotta stop.

 

Not here, against the law. So they just bring their own to school.

[Grimm74]

we're protecting society from getting even more obese than it already is.

 

Do you really care if some random stranger gets lung cancer from smoking? Or are the laws (eg. no advertising for smoking) in place to help society from collapsing under even more insane health care expense?

 

 

Check your stats. Dying younger proves to be a lot less costly to the government. Quit telling me how to live my life.

[Ursa Majoris]

Dying younger is cheaper on society?

He's right. In an economically perfect world, people would die the same day they become eligible for Medicare and SS.

[gbpfan1231]

It shouldn't be that hard to figure out. It just comes down to this, "pick on someone your own size".

 

You all keep avoiding my comments about how society recognizes that kids lack maturity to think critically and are, thus protected from many things. And companies specifically exploit the very weaknesses we've all agreed kids have. That's really it. It's not criminal, but it sure ain't very noble.

 

The rest of your post just proves you're reaching.

1) Yes, school lunches are a joke. And that is another thing entirely that has nothing to do with this topic.

2) Children are fed real food at all my places. Calorie count is less important than actually eating real food.

3) The last thing anyone would ever accuse me of is marketing my restaurants towards kids. Hell, I've been wrongly accused on this message board of trying to keep them out.

4) I'm not talking about things that kids might happen to think is cute. I'm talking about massive campaigns directed specifically at kids.

Well I am sorry it is hard for me to figure out what you are really saying. Are you saying that what McDonalds is doing is wrong and they should stop? That was the original topic before it was compared to illegal drugs and smoking.

 

Are you actually saying that McDonalds exploits kids by having a toy in a stupid box and that is the fault of the corporation over the parent to just say NO?

 

It is easy to say at a 20,000 foot level that kids are exploited. I have said it earlier in this thread that in my opinion McDonalds is doing NOTHING wrong - the problem with the kids are the parents.

 

I was bringing up the thing about your logo because where does it stop? If McDonalds can't put a toy in a box why should you be able to have a cute little logo?

[detlef]

Well I am sorry it is hard for me to figure out what you are really saying. Are you saying that what McDonalds is doing is wrong and they should stop? That was the original topic before it was compared to illegal drugs and smoking.

 

Are you actually saying that McDonalds exploits kids by having a toy in a stupid box and that is the fault of the corporation over the parent to just say NO?

 

It is easy to say at a 20,000 foot level that kids are exploited. I have said it earlier in this thread that in my opinion McDonalds is doing NOTHING wrong - the problem with the kids are the parents.

 

I was bringing up the thing about your logo because where does it stop? If McDonalds can't put a toy in a box why should you be able to have a cute little logo?

All I have been saying is that it alarms me that people aren't even annoyed by McDonalds tactics. That, in the rush to not be seen as free-market hating, nanny-staters you guys are actually defending this practice even on a simply ethical level. That, as you say it, "there is nothing wrong with it" at all.

 

Now, again (and I'm going to repeat this until someone actually addresses the similarities and quits pretending that I'm looking to completely absolve the parents from the responsibility of raising their kids).

 

Why do we have age laws on so many things? Why, for instance can kids not buy smokes? It seems that, by what most of you are saying, that any parent worth a crap should be able to keep their kids from smoking. Why do we let the parents off the hook? Maybe it's just a safety net. Maybe we realize that, even though a good parent is going to try their best to keep kids from smoking, they can't be watching them all the time. So, in the event that someone else influences the kid, there's one more barrier. The dude at the store won't sell it to them. Sure, they can still get them, but there's just one more thing standing in the way of kids making a stupid choice.

 

Why do we have age laws for porn, or booze, or entering into legally binding contracts? Because we think our kids don't know better. Don't get caught up on the relative danger of these things compared to fast food. That's not the point. The point is that we've established that kids are gullible and lack the maturity to make good choices.

 

So, we have laws set up to help parents do their job when it comes to raising their kids. The whole, "it takes a village" bit. That we get each others backs on this. Sure, it's ultimately your job to teach your kids right from wrong, but you also know that most everyone else is going to help you should your message miss the mark. The guy at the liquor store has your back. The cops have your back. We've actually established laws to help parents help their kids to do the right thing.

 

Except for McDonalds. They do not have your back at all. They see you as the competition. Because every effort you make to teach your kids that they shouldn't live off that crap, hurts their bottom line. So, they launch a massive campaign to drown you out as best they can. They inundate your very impressionable kids (who we've already established are vulnerable and not exactly capable of making wise decisions on their own) with as much imagery and happy McDonalds goodness as they can so that they'll pester you every time they see the arches. So you either cave, or you're the dick. That's what McDonalds turns you into. Either the spineless d-bag who feeds your kids crap or the evil tyrant who deprives them of "the only thing in the whole wide world that they want (at least for now)". Now, obviously, this is not the only way you'll "be the dick" to your kids. But wouldn't it be nice if you had to go through this crap as rarely as possible? Wouldn't it be nice if someone wasn't devoting millions to make you "be the dick" as often as they possibly can?

 

So, why are you cool with him? He sees your kid as a mark and you as the a-hole standing in the way. And he's devoted millions to defeat you. And this is the guy who needs to be protected, not only by the law (which is fine enough) but also from even being called out for his tactics? And you guys are the ones waving the "people need to take responsibility for the actions" flag around? Sounds more like guys who don't mind being pushed around. That, despite the fact that they put so much effort into making your job as a parent as annoying as they can, when they're done screwing with your kids, they turn right around and remind you of all the good times you've had. And you say, "Oh yeah, I'm lovin' it"

 

As far as the "kids eating a few Big Macs a week isn't going to hurt them bit" (which I realize is more Mucca's point than yours). McDonalds is trying to establish a positive connection with your daily diet early on. They make you love them young, you love them long time. Then, when your a-hole parents who kept you from the glorious arches are out of the way, you can rekindle your love affair with their crap food. Kids, after all, are not the only fat people in this world. That is very much undeniable.

Edited December 20, 2010 by detlef

[Dr. Sacrebleu]

On a different tack, ordinary citizens want their voices heard. they have a variety of ways of getting that done.

Sometimes it's voting with their feet (or in this case their mouths) when they make a point of NOT going to McDonald's because it is unhealthy. As a result McDs has, in response to the market, started offering more healthy alternatives. Sometimes it is by protest, by for example in france when they started busting up Mcdonald's and as a result the company decided to tone down the high visiility of their restaurants. And sometimes it is by lawsuits, the substance of which I btw I do not agree with, as a lever to get McDonalds to be less agressive in their marketing strategies.

Individual people are pretty powerless versus a large holding that they feel affects them. This is a way to put pressure on that company to respond to the individual's needs through bad publicity.

Yeah. It's not exactly a shining moment in democracy and the fre market, but it is reality.

It's kind of like Orly Taitz, or lady.hawke repeatedly suing to get Obama' election overturned. It is a way to get their message out (obama foreign muslim terrorist) rather than a true legal challenge.

I understand that most of you would like the free market to be the arbiter of all things, butwhen an individual or a small group of individuals wants to get something done in THEIR interest, they use the tools at their disposal.

Imagine if you had a nice little house in the rolling hills, far from everything, and all of a sudden MEGA CORP bought the plot of land right next to yours to build a huge complex. I am pretty sure you would go out and invoke zoning laws, organize protests, perhaps start frivolous law suits to convince MEGA corps to go elsewhere...

[keggerz]

Tack on grocery stores that put the cereal kids want at their eye level.

[Ursa Majoris]

Tack on grocery stores that put the cereal kids want at their eye level.

And every store on the planet putting the "mama me wanna" stuff at the register.

 

Again, it's called marketing and it's always within the parent's power to simply say no.

[gbpfan1231]

absolutely correct.

 

But when we say this, aren't we assuming that all parents are 'good' parents with this line of thinking?

 

Wouldn't most of y'all say that way too many parents just aren't all that great, at least with regards to nutrition? Shouldn't we be trying to protect the kids from parents who just don't care enough, aren't educated enough, or whatever?

 

I'm not excusing parents from making bad health choices, but shouldn't we as a society recognize reality?

You can't protect everybody from everything. Seriously folks - McDonalds is putting a toy in a box and they are evil for pitting kids against parents. Is this how the marketing meeting went...

 

Mkt Exec: I say we sell a box of food at a small price and it is a cheap alternative to buying off the menu - someone can just order the happy meal and it will have a cheeseburger and fries and a drink - people can choose a cheeseburger or a hamburger or maybe even mcnuggets

McD's prex: Hey how about we put a toy in it and then all the kids will hate the parents and will force the parents to come to our store and buy the happy meal - it is not just a neat thing to put in a box but what we will be doing is taking control of the parents and we will then have the power to make the kids want our food.

 

Bulldiaper dirt. All McDonalds is doing is marketing a portion of the menu - yes towards kids but who cares people can say NO.

 

Also - going to McDonalds once in a while does not kill or necessarily hurt kids - My niece and nephew do go to Mcd's once in a while - they are sheltered away from it nor are they there everynight - but guess what - my sister as a responsible parent also makes sure that her kids do not sit on the couch and play video games they are outside and active and play sports and do other things and these kids are very very healthy. I eat McD's once in a while and I work out and am very healthy.

 

Some restaurants give kids crayons and paper to color on - oh no that is evil because they serve chili cheese fries and parents can't stop the kids from wanting to color.

 

Gimme a break you bunch of nannies and take some responsibility.

[redrumjuice]

Shouldn't we be trying to protect the kids from parents who just don't care enough, aren't educated enough, or whatever?

 

NOOOOOO.

 

Mind your own DAMN BUSINESS!

 

What is it with you people? Now I know why the unabomber did it.

[redrumjuice]

How many times have you seen a really fat kid and wanted to hit the parent?

 

Why stop at fat? How about stupid? Ugly? Ghey? Black?

[gbpfan1231]

umm, THIS is exactly the point. Too many parents do NOT take responsibility. How many times have you seen a really fat kid and wanted to hit the parent?

Many times - but guess what it is none of our business.

[Big Country]

Ya know, parents can just opt for the apple slices and milk in lieu of the fries and soda. My big pet peeve with that though is they charge extra for the milk. Presumably milk costs more so it makes sense, just wish it was something where the healthy option cost the same or was actually the default, so rather than opting for the healthier alternatives parents would have to choose to opt for the unhelthy options.

 

We're fortunate that the few times we do go there, our kids generally prefer the apples.

[gbpfan1231]

so you feel the need to intervene on behalf of the child, but won't cuz we shouldn't interfere? fair enough.

I am not going to intervene on how people feed their own children. If I see parents beating kids or driving drunk with kids in the car then yes that is a very different story.

 

If I see a fat kid in McDonalds eating a happy meal with parents then so be it - not something I would do with my kids if they were overweight but for the 1000th time in is none of anybody's business when it comes down to what parents feed the kids.

[redrumjuice]

do you really think I'm going to attempt to have a conversation with you?

 

Yes, but I understand my difficult question is hard for you to reply too with your weak, nosy argument.

[gbpfan1231]

Ya know, parents can just opt for the apple slices and milk in lieu of the fries and soda. My big pet peeve with that though is they charge extra for the milk. Presumably milk costs more so it makes sense, just wish it was something where the healthy option cost the same or was actually the default, so rather than opting for the healthier alternatives parents would have to choose to opt for the unhelthy options.

 

We're fortunate that the few times we do go there, our kids generally prefer the apples.

You are lucky!!! If I was in line behind you and heard you order the fries for your kids you would have had to deal with me!!!

[redrumjuice]

You are lucky!!! If I was in line behind you and heard you order the fries for your kids you would have had to deal with me!!!

 

Did you just call BC's kids fat?

[Grimm74]

If a super healthy restaurant used the same tactics like a toy in a box would we restrict that as well?

 

The great thing about McDonalds is they have healthy options. They did so b/c of public pressure and most importantly there was a DEMAND for it. My daughter had a happy meal and she had a cup of fruit, glass of milk, and a hamburger. I'm not sure about you guys but that hamburger isn't exactly the calorie and lard festival everyone is making it out to be. A Mcd hamburger is 100% beef with no other additives. So we need to protect our kids from beef..?.. no more meatloaf, meatballs and etc????

 

McDonald's goal is not to serve unhealthy food. Their goal is to sell food people want.

 

We sometimes have to sit back and say how much do we want our lifestyles ruled by the ignorant. I for one think it is best to limit this type of action to the best of our abilities.

 

In regards to your sex, drugs, cars and evn contracts argument there are immediate health/non health impact issues there. Not only that but each one of those you listed will/could have a negative impact on another individual. Food is not the same. Can you not see a difference? Unless of course a kid throws his happy meal toy at me.

[detlef]

You can't protect everybody from everything. Seriously folks - McDonalds is putting a toy in a box and they are evil for pitting kids against parents. Is this how the marketing meeting went...

 

Mkt Exec: I say we sell a box of food at a small price and it is a cheap alternative to buying off the menu - someone can just order the happy meal and it will have a cheeseburger and fries and a drink - people can choose a cheeseburger or a hamburger or maybe even mcnuggets

McD's prex: Hey how about we put a toy in it and then all the kids will hate the parents and will force the parents to come to our store and buy the happy meal - it is not just a neat thing to put in a box but what we will be doing is taking control of the parents and we will then have the power to make the kids want our food.

 

Bulldiaper dirt. All McDonalds is doing is marketing a portion of the menu - yes towards kids but who cares people can say NO.

 

Also - going to McDonalds once in a while does not kill or necessarily hurt kids - My niece and nephew do go to Mcd's once in a while - they are sheltered away from it nor are they there everynight - but guess what - my sister as a responsible parent also makes sure that her kids do not sit on the couch and play video games they are outside and active and play sports and do other things and these kids are very very healthy. I eat McD's once in a while and I work out and am very healthy.

 

Some restaurants give kids crayons and paper to color on - oh no that is evil because they serve chili cheese fries and parents can't stop the kids from wanting to color.

 

Gimme a break you bunch of nannies and take some responsibility.

I see you're still ignoring the fact that I don't intend to let parents off the hook for raising their kids.

 

At any rate, as far as I'm concerned, it's not just about the toys, but the constant and complete bombardment of media. I read somewhere that many more kids recognized Ronald McDonald than the POTUS. So, it very much is working. And they know this. So trying to poo poo any intent on their part is not a battle you are going to win. Besides the fact that it is a very logical argument to assume that bombarding a very gullible demographic with marketing is going to be effective, the fact that they've been pumping millions of dollars for ever into this strategy very much proves that point.

 

And your attempts to compare that to restaurants simply accommodating kids and giving them something to draw with in order to pacify them during their meal so they don't have screaming meltdowns and annoy other diners is weak at best.

 

OK, try this one. Say you have a 14 year old daughter. Every time you're hanging out at the dinner table, she mentions that her best friends older sister keeps telling her that working in a strip club is a great way to make money. That she she should do it once she turns 18. You, of course, try to convince her otherwise. But, every single day, she keeps at it, "But Katie's older sister says how much money you can make." And on and on.

 

Then you run into Katie's older sister or maybe Katie's parents at the store. Do you bother saying something? Or is that you just being a my little buddy because it's your job to teach your daughter right from wrong.

 

At what point are you allowed to be angry about someone making your job as a parent more difficult?

 

Or does that make you a ninny that doesn't want to take responsibility for your actions?

 

And btw, I don't think mine and Opie's opinion on the matter are exactly the same.

[gbpfan1231]

How do you feel about Shaquille O'Neal's efforts to fight childhood obesity? Should he mind his own business?

 

 

I am not sure of exactly what Shaq is doing but there is a difference between making people aware and getting into someone's business.

 

Let's say Joe has an effort to try and educate people and has an effort to fight stupidity. Would you mind if he donates money to schools and has other things to make people aware compared to sending you a direct e-mail and trying to help with your stupidity.

 

No issues with making people aware that obesity is a problem but stay out the people's individual lives - Is the little Mario guy too cute and now kids want to play more video games which may lead to obesity - do we want someone to step in and make rules saying these characters appeal too much to children - no - let the parents decide.

 

Edit: You guys seriously don't see how this oversteps your bounds. I am simply boggled some of you think this way. If this is the way people are going to be thinking in the future I hope I enjoy the next couple years and then damn let it end.

Edited December 20, 2010 by gbpfan1231

[detlef]

If a super healthy restaurant used the same tactics like a toy in a box would we restrict that as well?

 

The great thing about McDonalds is they have healthy options. They did so b/c of public pressure and most importantly there was a DEMAND for it. My daughter had a happy meal and she had a cup of fruit, glass of milk, and a hamburger. I'm not sure about you guys but that hamburger isn't exactly the calorie and lard festival everyone is making it out to be. A Mcd hamburger is 100% beef with no other additives. So we need to protect our kids from beef..?.. no more meatloaf, meatballs and etc????

 

McDonald's goal is not to serve unhealthy food. Their goal is to sell food people want.

 

We sometimes have to sit back and say how much do we want our lifestyles ruled by the ignorant. I for one think it is best to limit this type of action to the best of our abilities.

 

In regards to your sex, drugs, cars and evn contracts argument there are immediate health/non health impact issues there. Not only that but each one of those you listed will/could have a negative impact on another individual. Food is not the same. Can you not see a difference? Unless of course a kid throws his happy meal toy at me.

What part of, "my point is not based on how much worse these things are but that the fact that, because we restrict their consumption on an age basis proves that we've established that people below a certain age lack the maturity to not make stupid decisions." That whole bit is a just intended to establish the fact that these guys are exploiting something we all agree exists.

[Grimm74]

Also maybe the first thing the government does before its "NO TOYS" campaign is lift the tariffs on sugar and take away the subsidies of corn products like high fructose corn syrup.

[Yukon Cornelius]

Remember anyone can have kids and there are many that should not.

[detlef]

Also maybe the first thing the government does before its "NO TOYS" campaign is lift the tariffs on sugar and take away the subsidies of corn products like high fructose corn syrup.

You're not going to get an argument from me. Again, I don't think they should be in this argument to begin with. But I sure as hell wouldn't mind if they didn't actually pay people to produce garbage.

[gbpfan1231]

Remember anyone can have kids and there are many that should not.

Amen - hey let's have all perspective parents sign a waiver that says "I will not allow my child to eat food from any place that advertises to children"

 

Detlef - you keep saying I don't answer your question or see your side but you have not really answered mine....

 

This is about food - stop going off on different tangents like now stripping....

 

I can't believe people want other people to decide how a place like McDonalds who sells FOOD can market the product. Again - you are saying it is wrong that McDonalds has a toy in a happy meal? You think this should not be allowed?

 

I said I would not but I will go back to the stripper thing. I am not sure if being a stripper is so wrong and I am not so sure eating McDonalds is so wrong but I do know here in Green Bay that a few strippers have been dong both and that my friends is WRONG.

 

I see I missed the I in doing - I kind of like how it turned out though - kind of a freudian slip of the tongue.

Edited December 20, 2010 by gbpfan1231