Rule Question

[gbpfan1231]

I might have asked this before here but I can't remember....

 

If a team needed a crucial first down but was in a punt situation why could they not do a fake punt and have the punter throw a pass to the gunner?

 

The gunner is constantly getting bumped/pushed all the way down the field - As soon as the punter would throw the ball to the gunner it would be an immediate PI penalty or at the minimum illegal contact and the result in both cases would be a first down. this seems like a no brainer and would seem pretty easy to accomplish???

 

Now I guess the ball would have to be catchable and the gunner would need to stay in close proximity to the defender so defender continues to push/shove.

 

What am I missing here? I am sure it can't be this simple?? Gunners are eligible receivers right?

[Seahawks21]

First off, it would take quite a bit of time to practice. You've got to teach your punter/upback to wait for the gunner to clear the 5-yard mark. You've got to also teach what are usually backup DB's to act as WR's. Most teams don't have enough time to work on their normal special teams plays enough, and would have to kind of work on this play throughout the entire season in order to break it out in a game.

 

More importantly, I'm not sure that the benefit would justify the potential cost. I would think the refs would be a bit more lenient on the defensive backs, and might not be as strict on the 5-yard rule. Also, you've got a pretty close to a 0% chance to actually complete the pass. You are basing your entire chance for success on that play on the referee throwing his flag. If, by chance he doesn't throw the flag, you have just given the other team the ball, most likely on your side of the field. Most coaches would rather believe in their defense than possibly putting the outcome of the game directly in the hands of the officials.

[BeachBum]

I don't know the actual rules on a punt. It must be legal to keep hitting the 'gunner' down the field. So then it would come down to an interpretation - if it starts out as a 'punt', even if they don't kick it, when would the refs change it to a pass play? There are times when a punt turns into a pass play accidently because of a dropped/bad snap, and the punter runs around and throws wildly somewhere. It is probably still ruled a 'punt play' for penalty purposes?

 

I'd also think they'd worry about no call, and an interception.

[Hugh 0ne]

If a player from the kicking team is the first to touch the ball after it crosses the line of scrimmage, "illegal touching" is called and the receiving team gains possession at the spot where the illegal touching occurred. This is often not considered to be detrimental to the team committing the "illegal touching"; for example, it is common for a player on the kicking team to make contact with the ball before it enters the end zone and is thus ruled as a touchback. Since there is no further yardage penalty awarded, the kicking team is often said to have "downed the ball" when this occurs.

 

and this:

 

The punter (or another back, who is standing nearby) may decide to pass to a pre-designated receiver.

 

Basicaly make it impossible. I think.

 

ETA: Info from Wikipedia.

Edited January 12, 2011 by Hugh 0ne

[Hugh 0ne]

And from a 1997 NFL rule change:

 

"Punts and Fake Punts -- when a team fakes a punt and throws the ball downfield, pass interference calls on the two outside defenders who are actually trying to block a coverage man from getting downfield -- and might not even know the ball has been thrown -- have been eliminated."

[Hugh 0ne]

I think that covers all aspects of your question. My work is done here.

[MTSuper7]

And from a 1997 NFL rule change:

 

"Punts and Fake Punts -- when a team fakes a punt and throws the ball downfield, pass interference calls on the two outside defenders who are actually trying to block a coverage man from getting downfield -- and might not even know the ball has been thrown -- have been eliminated."

 

If this is the actual verbiage of the rule, then it must work both ways, so a push off would be legal too, no?

[gbpfan1231]

And from a 1997 NFL rule change:

 

"Punts and Fake Punts -- when a team fakes a punt and throws the ball downfield, pass interference calls on the two outside defenders who are actually trying to block a coverage man from getting downfield -- and might not even know the ball has been thrown -- have been eliminated."

Interesting. Thanks!

[G.K.Trey]

If a player from the kicking team is the first to touch the ball after it crosses the line of scrimmage, "illegal touching" is called and the receiving team gains possession at the spot where the illegal touching occurred. This is often not considered to be detrimental to the team committing the "illegal touching"; for example, it is common for a player on the kicking team to make contact with the ball before it enters the end zone and is thus ruled as a touchback. Since there is no further yardage penalty awarded, the kicking team is often said to have "downed the ball" when this occurs.

 

and this:

 

The punter (or another back, who is standing nearby) may decide to pass to a pre-designated receiver.

 

Basicaly make it impossible. I think.

 

ETA: Info from Wikipedia.

 

 

this is only the case if the ball is Kicked.

[osu1322]

another point I'd add to this arguement is even if u do pull of this fake punt (regarless of if it's by penalty or a completed pass) Wouldn't the defence / recieving team expect and prepare for it the second time. That is the hard part of special teams coming up with orginal trick plays that actually work and that ur opponents don't expect.