Azazello1313 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 It's what he didn't do. ok, great. that was my question. what is it he didn't do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 ok....I see that fairly "only" measured 6'3", 291, where he was assumed to be more like 6'5", 300+. meanwhile the "other" top DT looks great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazinib1 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 ok, great. that was my question. what is it he didn't do? I'm not really sure if there is any one thing that he didn't do. he ran a great 40 (4.84) but his 10yd split was mediocre compared to Dareus. He also could not participate in the bench press due to a late season minor shoulder separation. He was also officially listed as 2 inches shorter than his college height. The combination of the above, with Dareus' fantastic Senior Bowl/Combine have knocked him down a few spots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawks21 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Jake Locker looked pretty good. He didn't get near the high 4.3 hype, but he didn't embarrass himself during the throwing sessions, which is much more important. He wasn't exactly sharp,especially early, but the QB position as a whole was pretty awful, and he wasn't one of the worst of the group, which for him is a huge step in itself. I thought he performed well. It was fun though, that he got to throw right after Kaeaepeaeaearnaeeak and right before Mallett. K has a brutal delivery. Locker looked much better than him, but was clearly outclassed by Mallett, who for my money was the second best performer at the combine, besides Julio Jones. Mallett can flat-out throw the football. If he was a 10, the next best passer was about a 7. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazinib1 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Jake Locker looked pretty good. He didn't get near the high 4.3 hype, but he didn't embarrass himself during the throwing sessions, which is much more important. He wasn't exactly sharp,especially early, but the QB position as a whole was pretty awful, and he wasn't one of the worst of the group, which for him is a huge step in itself. I thought he performed well. It was fun though, that he got to throw right after Kaeaepeaeaearnaeeak and right before Mallett. K has a brutal delivery. Locker looked much better than him, but was clearly outclassed by Mallett, who for my money was the second best performer at the combine, besides Julio Jones. Mallett can flat-out throw the football. If he was a 10, the next best passer was about a 7. I've said it before and I'll say it again, don't sleep on Kaepearnaek. He could easily be a 2nd round pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawks21 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I've said it before and I'll say it again, don't sleep on Kaepearnaek. He could easily be a 2nd round pick. I'm not saying he won't, but I thought with a better showing, he could have been a guy that could have possibly crept up into the first round. I don't think he looked like that type of prospect this weekend. He does throw the deep ball very easily, but everything he does just looks muddy. He isn't a "natural". I do like the kid though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Looking forward to your explanation of why my comment about Cam above means I'm a racist? I'll wait ... still waiting ...... Dude, he was being sarcastic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Cam looked horrid throwing some outs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazinib1 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 (edited) Cam looked horrid throwing some outs. +1 The 10yd out is a drill that many of the QB's misunderstood. They worried so much about completions that they failed this drill miserably. All the scouts want to see is the drop,plant and throw to the spot...didn't matter if the WR was there or not. But time after time, you would see the QB waiting on the WR. Even then, Cam couldn't get it done. Very bad outing for him and now I'm wondering if he is having second thoughts about participating in the drills cause his stock took a serious hit IMO. But we all knew that right? Redrumjuice? Hello you there? The QB that nailed the drills was Ponder. He'll fit perfectly into a west coast offense. He's almost a shoe-in early 2nd round pick. Edited February 28, 2011 by tazinib1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 +1 The 10yd out is a drill that many of the QB's misunderstood. They worried so much about completions that they failed this drill miserably. All the scouts want to see is the drop,plant and throw to the spot...didn't matter if the WR was there or not. But time after time, you would see the QB waiting on the WR. Even then, Cam couldn't get it done. Very bad outing for him and now I'm wondering if he is having second thoughts about participating in the drills cause his stock took a serious hit IMO. But we all knew that right? Redrumjuice? Hello you there? The QB that nailed the drills was Ponder. He'll fit perfectly into a west coast offense. He's almost a shoe-in early 2nd round pick. Golic was talking about the same thing this morning. That being the QBs are graded on hitting spots. However, you'd think that's a weird way of doing the drill because it's got to really go against a guy's instinct to throw a ball to a place that it looks like his WR is not going to get to. I mean, he must see that out of the corner of his eye. Wouldn't it be better if they paid capable WRs who knew how to run the route and would be there. Then you'd think the drill would be easier to measure. Either that or take the WR out all together and hang a tire there and have them throw through it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 fwiw, I heard mayock yesterday defending cam's throwing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazinib1 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 (edited) fwiw, I heard mayock yesterday defending cam's throwing. Not me. I watched and heard all 3 of them bashing him in this particular drill. Especially his footwork. I believe I heard Mayock later on backtracking abit and explaining that the WR's were new blah blah blah. Point was..it was a 5 step drop, plant, rotate the hips and step and throw to the spot. Hell Cam couldn't even get the footwork right. Look, I'm not a Cam hater. Really I'm not. The kid has tremendous talent but I think, and this is just my opinion, that he is a year or two away from being a NFL ready QB. Can he shake off this bad performance come Auburns Pro Day on the 8th? I'm not so sure but if he can at least show an improvement, it would go a long way in disproving his critics. He'll get to work with WR's he is used to on his home turf. If he has another bad outing, don't be surprised to see his stock fall significantly. But hell, I'm not an NFL scout, don't get paid to do this and no team has ever called me to ask for my advice so it also wouldn't surprise me to see him go #1 to Carolina Edited February 28, 2011 by tazinib1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazinib1 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Wouldn't it be better if they paid capable WRs who knew how to run the route and would be there. Then you'd think the drill would be easier to measure. Either that or take the WR out all together and hang a tire there and have them throw through it. I'd love to see something done but I'm not sure a tire is the answer. I believe the WR's are also graded on route running in this particular drill but its weighted more heavily towards the QB throwing to the spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I'd love to see something done but I'm not sure a tire is the answer. I believe the WR's are also graded on route running in this particular drill but its weighted more heavily towards the QB throwing to the spot. That seems dumb. Say what they want, but who looks better? A guy who keeps "throwing to the spot" and goes 10 for 20 because his guy is never there or a guy who keeps "throwing to the spot" and continually hits his WR in stride because dude is running the right pattern. Crappy luck for you if you get paired with the WRs who are on their way to earning themselves a failing grade for the drill. If nothing else, it's got to mess with a guy's head. The guy who's WR is always there is going to slip into the groove and start throwing better and better. Meanwhile, the other guy has to keep shaking it off and remind himself that he's doing OK despite the fact that his passes keep hitting the ground. Lastly, a cone on the ground is one thing, but can they tell if the ball passed where the WR was supposed to be at exactly chest level or was it a bit low or a bit high, both of which are less than ideal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazinib1 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 That seems dumb. Say what they want, but who looks better? A guy who keeps "throwing to the spot" and goes 10 for 20 because his guy is never there or a guy who keeps "throwing to the spot" and continually hits his WR in stride because dude is running the right pattern. Crappy luck for you if you get paired with the WRs who are on their way to earning themselves a failing grade for the drill. If nothing else, it's got to mess with a guy's head. The guy who's WR is always there is going to slip into the groove and start throwing better and better. Meanwhile, the other guy has to keep shaking it off and remind himself that he's doing OK despite the fact that his passes keep hitting the ground. Lastly, a cone on the ground is one thing, but can they tell if the ball passed where the WR was supposed to be at exactly chest level or was it a bit low or a bit high, both of which are less than ideal. I agree with every point you make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 fwiw, I heard mayock yesterday defending cam's throwing. i was half watching on DVR while doing some treasurer stuff for leagues and heard him waffling about Cam's throwing...he was on him some about the outs then was saying something about WRs not being who the QBs work with blah blah blah but he did also get on Cam about his drops and foot work too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeeR Posted March 1, 2011 Author Share Posted March 1, 2011 Looking forward to your explanation of why my comment about Cam above means I'm a racist? I'll wait ...You criticized a black person. That = racist. duh. Where you been the last oh 30ish years? The draft will not be affected by the lack of a CBA agreement. It will go on as usual. k, thx. Good. GB something sports-wise of interest between now and July. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theprofessor Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 You criticized a black person. That = racist. duh. Where you been the last oh 30ish years? k, thx. Good. GB something sports-wise of interest between now and July. Alright .... thanks for clearing that up. You're forgiven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 (edited) That seems dumb. Say what they want, but who looks better? A guy who keeps "throwing to the spot" and goes 10 for 20 because his guy is never there or a guy who keeps "throwing to the spot" and continually hits his WR in stride because dude is running the right pattern. Crappy luck for you if you get paired with the WRs who are on their way to earning themselves a failing grade for the drill. If nothing else, it's got to mess with a guy's head. The guy who's WR is always there is going to slip into the groove and start throwing better and better. Meanwhile, the other guy has to keep shaking it off and remind himself that he's doing OK despite the fact that his passes keep hitting the ground. It's all about understanding what it is you are being asked to do and to accomplish it. If a QB lets a 10 for 20 performance get into his head because of bad route running, he's got a lot bigger problems in trying to make a NFL squad than a 50% completion percentage. This is tryouts for the NFL. The guy who doesn't let the 10 for 20 because of poor WRs and keeps to his task professionally is going to stand out a hell of a lot more than the guy who is 20 for 20 but can't manage to do what is being asked of him and throws to the receiver instead. And that Newton can't do this very fundamental and basic thing that is required of pro QBs is no surprise. Edited March 1, 2011 by Bronco Billy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 It's all about understanding what it is you are being asked to do and to accomplish it. If a QB lets a 10 for 20 performance get into his head because of bad route running, he's got a lot bigger problems in trying to make a NFL squad than a 50% completion percentage. This is tryouts for the NFL. The guy who doesn't let the 10 for 20 because of poor WRs and keeps to his task professionally is going to stand out a hell of a lot more than the guy who is 20 for 20 but can't manage to do what is being asked of him and throws to the receiver instead. I knew someone was going to make this point. Yes, I get it. Dude needs to rise above. However, you tweaked my point. I was not comparing a guy who goes 10-20 to a guy who goes 20-20 but keeps missing his spot. I'm comparing two guys, both essentially "throwing to the spot", one of whom has some idiot who wont get there and the other has some guy who is money. Surely you must realize that it's going to be a hell of a lot easier for the guy with the WR who is running his route look good than the other guy. One guy keeps "throwing to the spot" and the other keeps putting the ball right on the numbers to a guy who happens to be running "to the spot". And again, it's self perpetuating. The guy with the good WR is going to get into the groove a whole lot easier than the other one. Say this was the NBA and they were doing shooting drills where you have to come off a screen, catch a pass, and shoot. Only, like this, they decide to make it a PG drill as well and have different guy feeding the shooters. So one guy has someone just feeding him the ball right where he wants it and the other keeps getting passes at his ankles or above his head. I mean, if that's going to get in a guy's head, he's got big problems waiting for him at the next level, right? But who's going to look better in the drill. Wouldn't it make sense to get some sold PG to just feed everyone? Keep in mind, these guys have got to be gripping a bit to begin with because this drill could earn or lose them literally millions of $$. Why not level the playing field? Why have it set up so that one guy can have the drill handed to him because he's throwing to a good WR and the other have to continually try to "shake off" the fact that his passes are landing incomplete because he's working with an idiot? And, again, I'd think you can only tell so much about how well a guy is throwing if he's basically putting it where it's supposed to go but the ball isn't being caught. There's something to be said for throwing a "catchable" ball. Some guys do, some guys don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawks21 Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 (edited) In the NFL, the three step out is a timing and placement route. In high school and college, it isn't. For the rest of their football playing lives, they will practice throwing to the spot on this route. Some WR's will get to the spot, and they will play on Sundays. Some won't and won't. Troy Aikman was the absolute master of the three step out route. He could hit the same spot every single time, no matter what was going on around him. If you were the WR and you couldn't get to that spot, Aikman was gonna rip your backside. Michael Irvin made a career out of getting to that spot. As a QB you take your three steps, plant, and fire the ball to that spot about two yards from the sideline. The scouting personnel wanted to see who could do it, even if it meant incomplete passes. Almost equally as importantly, they wanted to see which WR's could get to the spot. I agree that there is something a bit off about it, but if the QB's understand what is asked, it can be a pretty revealing little test. Edited March 1, 2011 by Seahawks21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazinib1 Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 In the NFL, the three step out is a timing and placement route. In high school and college, it isn't. For the rest of their football playing lives, they will practice throwing to the spot on this route. Some WR's will get to the spot, and they will play on Sundays. Some won't and won't. Troy Aikman was the absolute master of the three step out route. He could hit the same spot every single time, no matter what was going on around him. If you were the WR and you couldn't get to that spot, Aikman was gonna rip your backside. Michael Irvin made a career out of getting to that spot. As a QB you take your three steps, plant, and fire the ball to that spot about two yards from the sideline. The scouting personnel wanted to see who could do it, even if it meant incomplete passes. Almost equally as importantly, they wanted to see which WR's could get to the spot. I agree that there is something a bit off about it, but if the QB's understand what is asked, it can be a pretty revealing little test. Exactly..except in this particular drill, it was a 5 step drop. The 3 step is more of a spread formation play where the wr only takes a few steps and the ball is ther when he turns. Speaking of formation, kinda embarrassed to ask c@ause I should have caught it, but does anybody remember where the wr's lined up on this drill? Dvr people? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 (edited) Keep in mind, these guys have got to be gripping a bit to begin with because this drill could earn or lose them literally millions of $$. Why not level the playing field? Why have it set up so that one guy can have the drill handed to him because he's throwing to a good WR and the other have to continually try to "shake off" the fact that his passes are landing incomplete because he's working with an idiot? And, again, I'd think you can only tell so much about how well a guy is throwing if he's basically putting it where it's supposed to go but the ball isn't being caught. There's something to be said for throwing a "catchable" ball. Some guys do, some guys don't. I don't understand. You keep reiterating how limited the value is of this drill and then you explain how well it measures mental toughness and poise under severe pressure - two things all very good to great QBs have - as well as discipline and the ability to make NFL type throwss instead of college throws. The more you argue about this, the more good reasons you bring up for running this drill and all the QB traits it measures - unintentionally done on your part for sure, but valid points none the less. Scouts also get to watch movement and footwork on the drop, as well as body positioning in a very tight drill. Then you act as if this is the only throwing drill the QBs go through, as if they don't have an opportunity to run drills where they can show some savvy, touch, and imagination. Hint: The QBs will be making a lot more throws than just 20 10-yard outs... Earth to det: NFL QBs work with idiots on a regular basis. One of the differences between the merely competent ones and the great ones is whether they can find a way to succeed consistently under these adverse circumstances. There's great value to being able to watch a QB react when his WR screws up and he is under such intense pressure of potentially losing millions. You don't think the scouts are actually only watching the completion percentage or whether the QB throws exactly to the same spot every time, do you? Well, given your comments, maybe you do. Edited March 1, 2011 by Bronco Billy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Square Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Sounds like you are giving them a lot of benefit of the doubt BB. These "experts" still only have a 50% hit ratio with QBs in the first round, so I don't know if I completely buy into the theory (or results) of what they are running them through. If I was a QB, I'd probably not throw at the combine (Gabbert). I just don't see the upside if you are already looking at being a first day pick. I'd do my pro day on my home field with my WRs that I practiced all year with and then show up the combine and workout and do the interviews. Just doesn't seem to be much upside for a QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby's Hubby Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Colin Kaepernick. He is big and very fast. He has a nice deep ball and a very strong arm. What is the story on this guy? He seems to out measure Cam Newton in all departments, why take Newton top 10 when you can have Kaepernick 2nd round or later? Please advise.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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