The Fab Five

[budlitebrad]

I think the Fab 5 should be happy that ESPN even wants to do a documentary about them. These shows are usually reserved for a team that has won SOMETHING.

 

See Georgetown.

[Sugar Magnolia]

But who paid for it?

 

Recalling back on the story, Chris had to pretend to be ghetto to fit the mold. He lived in a middle class neighborhood and I think his mom was a school teacher and dad a janitor. Not upper middle class by any means but not hungry either. He got a high school basketball scholarship . I am sure someone here can correct my facts as this is just from memory.

[Puddy]

Finally watched the whole thing last night. Grant Hill (whom I love by the way) took the whole thing out of context. Jalen was explaining how he felt at the time. He was being honest and I really get where he was coming from. I will say this...I went to Southwestern in the mid-80's (in fact. Perry Watson was my high school counselor) and one of my best friends was the student manager of the basketball team. When the Ed Martin thing broke I called him and he flat out told me that Ed Martin did indeed help the high school players. My buddy said that Ed even bought him a cake for his birthday and he didn't even play on the team (he did however play college ball at wiegie's Grand Valley State). That should tell you how tough it was to make Southwestern's team. Dude could ball for a college team but not for his high school. The Fab Five documentary confirmed to me that Martin was really into helping inner city kids. He was also into hoping that he could benefit from the superstars someday.

[Swashbucklers]

It seems kind of funny to me that the current Michigan roster looks somewhat like what Jalen Rose was describing when talking about Duke (albeit not as strong).

[Avernus]

If I understand Rose's argument correctly, he reserves the "Uncle Tom" label for the black players that actually chose to go to Duke. Now the question is: Is Rose calling those players "Uncle Toms" because they came from middle/upper class families or is he calling them Uncle Toms for some other reason. I think the answer is the latter. As I see it, Rose is mad at Duke for not recruiting kids like him (and Rose was a honor roll student in high school) and he is mad at black players who chose to go to Duke even though Duke wouldn't recruit black kids who didn't fit the "middle to upper class nuclear black family" model even if they might have been decent and intelligent kids. Hence, Rose is arguing that the black kids who went to Duke were supporting a framework that discriminated against lower-class black kids.

 

That's just how I see it. (And, yes, I do feel qualified to speak on Rose's behalf because when I was growing up we too had a big broken tv on the floor with a smaller working tv on top of it.)

 

I don't think he's calling them Uncle Tom's at all, I took it as they only recruit black players who are perceived as them because of their perceived upbringing...which fits Grant Hill to a "T"

[SayItAintSoJoe]

Grant Hill (whom I love by the way) took the whole thing out of context. Jalen was explaining how he felt at the time.

 

+1 (except for the man-love part)

[Azazello1313]

As I said in my posts, you don't have to agree with Rose's assessment of Duke or its players.

 

My point was that you were wrong to say that Rose was arguing that "black kids from good families (are) 'Uncle Toms'" or that " a kid with good grades and a good family who happens to be black has to go to a schit school or else he's a sellout"

 

Given that you have changed your argument to focus on the simple-mindedness of Rose's argument as I have presented it, I take it that you are therefore agreeing with me that your previous characterizations of Rose's argument were wrong (or, shall we say, "simple-minded"?).

 

huh? I'm not seeing how my position has supposedly changed. look, rose's statement as a 17 year old is pretty clear. it is that black kids who went to duke to play basketball were race-traitors because duke basketball only recruited "nice" kids (of all races). implicit in this accusation is that duke basketball's recruiting standards are racist. to me, both those accusations are incredibally simple minded, to use your term. but the one directed at the black kids who chose duke is particularly vicious, uncalled for and unwarranted. to equate "blackness" with one particular kind of experience (poor, inner-city, broken family, etc.), while requiring those with a different experience to either seek out that experience or somehow pay homage to it or risk being labelled as a race-traitor -- that's the real racism.

 

apparently you disagree, and think that calling other black kids who chose a rival school "uncle toms" is a thoughtful way of furthering the racial debate in this country. either that or you just like michigan/hate duke enough that the collateral damage is meaningless.

 

Finally watched the whole thing last night. Grant Hill (whom I love by the way) took the whole thing out of context. Jalen was explaining how he felt at the time.

 

right, but when given the opportunity he didn't clarify that he doesn't still view people like hill that way. about as far as he would go was to say, "hey, I was 17....I didn't really have a filter." that implies that he basically feels the same way he did then, even if he'd find a way to put it more diplomatically now. if he would have said, "that's how I felt at the time, watching duke ignore kids like me; but obviously I can see now how that label is completely unfair to grant hill and the other black players at duke", I'd applaud him and thank him for shedding light on the situation.

 

bottom line to me is that there is a way to get at what he was trying to say about duke and it's recruiting without throwing race bombs in everyone's face. instead he took the lou farrakhan route, and people here are applauding him for it.

[tonorator]

if duke was recruiting poor, questionable character white kids, then rose would have a point.

[Puddy]

right, but when given the opportunity he didn't clarify that he doesn't still view people like hill that way. about as far as he would go was to say, "hey, I was 17....I didn't really have a filter." that implies that he basically feels the same way he did then, even if he'd find a way to put it more diplomatically now. if he would have said, "that's how I felt at the time, watching duke ignore kids like me; but obviously I can see now how that label is completely unfair to grant hill and the other black players at duke", I'd applaud him and thank him for shedding light on the situation.

 

bottom line to me is that there is a way to get at what he was trying to say about duke and it's recruiting without throwing race bombs in everyone's face. instead he took the lou farrakhan route, and people here are applauding him for it.

 

Here's two minutes of explanation from Rose. You only quoted part of it. I take something completely different away from it. Dude was being honest. Do you suggest that he should do a documentary and not tell exactly how he felt at the time?

 

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