Avernus Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110417/ap_on_...Wl0aG5lcmNvbmY- WASHINGTON – Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner says Republican leaders have privately assured the Obama administration that Congress will raise the government's borrowing limit in time to prevent an unprecedented default on the nation's debt.But a top Republican quickly pushed back Sunday and said there was no guarantee the GOP would agree to increase the $14.3 trillion debt ceiling without further controls on federal spending. Geithner told ABC's "This Week" and NBC's "Meet the Press" that Republicans told President Barack Obama in a White House meeting last Wednesday that they will go along with a higher limit. "I want to make it perfectly clear that Congress will raise the debt ceiling," Geithner said in the interviews taped Saturday and aired Sunday. He said the leaders told Obama that they couldn't play around with the government's credit rating. "They recognize it, and they told the president that on Wednesday in the White House," Geithner said. But Rep. Paul Ryan, the chairman of the House Budget Committee, said that while it was true nobody wants the country to default, it's essential to address future borrowing at the same time. "We want cuts in spending accompanying a raising of the debt ceiling. And that is what we have been telling the White House," Ryan said on CBS' "Face the Nation." Ryan, R-Wis., wrote the 2012 budget blueprint that the House passed on Friday. The plan for the budget year that begins Oct. 1 cuts $6.2 trillion over the coming decade and transforms Medicare for people under 55. The government is projected to reach its borrowing limit no later than May 16 and risks going into an unprecedented default. Geithner has said he will have a few options he can use that would delay a possible government default until about July 8. The looming credit crunch has heightened the tensions between the administration and Republicans in Congress. A last-minute deal last month between the White House and GOP avoided a government shut down on a budget running through September. But Republicans are seeking additional savings in the budget for next year, and say unless they get them, they won't support raising the debt ceiling. In an interview with The Associated Press on Friday, Obama predicted that Congress would raise the debt ceiling, but he acknowledged that he would have to offer more spending cuts in the budget to get a deal. Later, Obama's spokesman said a debt ceiling vote could not be contingent on upcoming negotiations over the budget. If the debt ceiling is not raised, Obama told the AP that it would undermine the solvency of the government, roil financial markets and potentially "plunge the world economy back into a recession." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 Isn't this good news? Not that we are basically forced to raise the debt ceiling but the what would happen if it wasn't? I'm glad Geithner is confident it will happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted April 18, 2011 Author Share Posted April 18, 2011 Isn't this good news? Not that we are basically forced to raise the debt ceiling but the what would happen if it wasn't? I'm glad Geithner is confident it will happen. it depends on if you're looking for a short term fix or a long term resolution.....more debt isn't my idea of a solution, but we're at opposite ends of the spectrum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt770 Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 Raising the debt ceiling is the equivalent of the captain of the Titanic saying "Screw it, this is a huge boat and that's just an iceberg. Full steam ahead." But then again, actually reducing the debt would mean balancing the budget, which would mean cutting entitlements to the bone and/or massive tax hikes, both unacceptable for politicians facing reelection. It's starting to feel like it doesn't matter what they do, because we're screwed regardless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 (edited) How are in the hell do we pay back 14 trillion + what they are still borrowing every minute? Geithner and everyone are saying, F it. We got ours and this ship is sinking, might as well just let it sink faster. Edited April 18, 2011 by WaterMan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackass Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 Raising the debt ceiling is the equivalent of the captain of the Titanic saying "Screw it, this is a huge boat and that's just an iceberg. Full steam ahead." I'm not quite seeing the analogy. Didn't the Titanic hit the iceberg and sink? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted April 18, 2011 Author Share Posted April 18, 2011 I'm not quite seeing the analogy. Didn't the Titanic hit the iceberg and sink? that's the point.....but hindsight is 20/20.... it's like the Captain of the ship saying "I'll take my chances hitting the iceberg" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEC=UGA Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 Did you guys see what the market did this morning after S&P issued a negative report for US debt... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted April 18, 2011 Author Share Posted April 18, 2011 Did you guys see what the market did this morning after S&P issued a negative report for US debt... nope, but I saw what gold and silver did ....and even though there's been a pullback on them already, the day is young.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt770 Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 nope, but I saw what gold and silver did ....and even though there's been a pullback on them already, the day is young.... I'm strongly considering putting my 401K and IRA in gold and silver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted April 18, 2011 Author Share Posted April 18, 2011 I'm strongly considering putting my 401K and IRA in gold and silver. I know that the experts always say to buy on the way up instead of on the dips, but I'd wait for a pullback. If we're going to have another wave of deflation coming, I think we could see a $30 spot price for silver. And for the few tards on these forums, this isn't a projection of any sorts...I just think that the price will come down significantly for one more great buying opportunity before it really starts going up....not to mention when silver approaches $50 and the media starts hyping up a great selling point for silver because "it hasn't been this high since the Hunt Brothers manipulated the Silver market"...there's going to be a lot of spinning coming up when we approach $48 Silver.... but then again, I also say buy what you can when you can....because you never know " difficult to tell, always in motion the future is" - Yoda.... I just wish I bought more silver than I did when it was in the teens ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEC=UGA Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 I know that the experts always say to buy on the way up instead of on the dips, but I'd wait for a pullback. If we're going to have another wave of deflation coming, I think we could see a $30 spot price for silver. And for the few tards on these forums, this isn't a projection of any sorts...I just think that the price will come down significantly for one more great buying opportunity before it really starts going up....not to mention when silver approaches $50 and the media starts hyping up a great selling point for silver because "it hasn't been this high since the Hunt Brothers manipulated the Silver market"...there's going to be a lot of spinning coming up when we approach $48 Silver.... but then again, I also say buy what you can when you can....because you never know " difficult to tell, always in motion the future is" - Yoda.... I just wish I bought more silver than I did when it was in the teens ..... Unless you have the silver and gold in your posession it ain't gonna do you any good when it all hits the fan. You really think you're gonna be able to go to the guy that issued your paper and say, "Hey, dude, I'm here for what you owe me..." I'd invest in iron and have the actual precious metals delivered to my door. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted April 18, 2011 Author Share Posted April 18, 2011 Unless you have the silver and gold in your posession it ain't gonna do you any good when it all hits the fan. You really think you're gonna be able to go to the guy that issued your paper and say, "Hey, dude, I'm here for what you owe me..." I'd invest in iron and have the actual precious metals delivered to my door. I'm not sure we're going to hit a SHTF scenario...I think things will get grim, but our perception of grim differs from what grim was 80 years ago.... and yeah I only get physical like Olivia Newton-John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Square Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 Unless you have the silver and gold in your posession it ain't gonna do you any good when it all hits the fan. You really think you're gonna be able to go to the guy that issued your paper and say, "Hey, dude, I'm here for what you owe me..." I'd invest in iron and have the actual precious metals delivered to my door. Cite me one failed economy where gold or silver really meant anything when the SHTF. Failed economies turn into barter systems. I don't invest in metals but the SHTF scenario seems a ridiculous reason to get into an investment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimC Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 It's good to see Geithner is still a moran that has failed at everything he has ever attempted in life. The only reason this bozo was ever hired was because he will be a puppet that will do and say whatever his boss wants. Yer a good little sheepy Geithner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEC=UGA Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 Cite me one failed economy where gold or silver really meant anything when the SHTF. Failed economies turn into barter systems. I don't invest in metals but the SHTF scenario seems a ridiculous reason to get into an investment. Rome, Weimar Republic, Ottoman Empire/Turkey, Austro Hungarian Empire, The southern US after the civil war. I agree that SHTF scenario is a ways off, but, if it does occur and all of your holdings are tied up in paper you have no wealth. At least with precious metals and gems you can go elsewhere and trade these for wealth. Say I have 400 ounces of gold (coins, bars, whatever) I can go to another nation, with an intact economy and trade these metals for currency and start over. If all of my wealth were in paper, when the economy tanked I have no where to go where I can trade this worthless paper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brentastic Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 It's good to see Geithner is still a moran that has failed at everything he has ever attempted in life. The only reason this bozo was ever hired was because he will be a puppet that will do and say whatever his boss wants. Yer a good little sheepy Geithner. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted April 19, 2011 Author Share Posted April 19, 2011 Cite me one failed economy where gold or silver really meant anything when the SHTF. Failed economies turn into barter systems. I don't invest in metals but the SHTF scenario seems a ridiculous reason to get into an investment. Zimbabwe.....the Zimbabwiian (sp?) dollar used to be on par with the USD not too long ago until they inflated their currency to the point of "hyper-inflation"....they reached a point where common folk would spend all day panning for little flakes of gold so they can buy bread..... gold and silver has value across the globe and when an economy fails, it's a storage of wealth due to the fact that it's value is static....but can be "over-valued" or "under-valued"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted April 19, 2011 Author Share Posted April 19, 2011 Rome, Weimar Republic, Ottoman Empire/Turkey, Austro Hungarian Empire, The southern US after the civil war. I agree that SHTF scenario is a ways off, but, if it does occur and all of your holdings are tied up in paper you have no wealth. At least with precious metals and gems you can go elsewhere and trade these for wealth. Say I have 400 ounces of gold (coins, bars, whatever) I can go to another nation, with an intact economy and trade these metals for currency and start over. If all of my wealth were in paper, when the economy tanked I have no where to go where I can trade this worthless paper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Square Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 Rome, Weimar Republic, Ottoman Empire/Turkey, Austro Hungarian Empire, The southern US after the civil war. I'm going to need more than your word sunshine. I also should have qualified a "modern economy". Hell, what happened in America during the great depression with gold? Any idea? The FED forced people to turn it in and it was basically illegal to own gold. I agree that SHTF scenario is a ways off, but, if it does occur and all of your holdings are tied up in paper you have no wealth. At least with precious metals and gems you can go elsewhere and trade these for wealth. Say I have 400 ounces of gold (coins, bars, whatever) I can go to another nation, with an intact economy and trade these metals for currency and start over. If all of my wealth were in paper, when the economy tanked I have no where to go where I can trade this worthless paper. So if the world's only superpower has an economy that fails, you think gold is really going to help you out? That there are going to be a bunch of "intact" economies just waiting for you and your shiny metal (that you are going to transport easily) to help you re-create wealth? Or that a huge influx of people now dumping gold onto the market will assist you in recreating wealth? It is also important to remember that gold is not used when economies fail. history shows that when an economy completely collapses, the first that appears is a black-market barter system in which people trade items for other items or services. In a primitive culters, items of utility often become the medium of exchange, and the same is temporarily true in a failed economy. A skill, a pair of blue jeans, or a tank of gas becomes very valuable, but not gold coin or nuggets. usually a new government rises from the ashes, and a new paper money or coinage is established. Gold will, at best, play a minor role, and the gold investor will be left with the sick feeling that real estate, canned soup, or knowledge would have been a better hedge against a failed economy. -Dave Remsey, Total Money Makeover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 it depends on if you're looking for a short term fix or a long term resolution.....more debt isn't my idea of a solution, but we're at opposite ends of the spectrum. If Congress fails to lift the debt ceiling beyond its current limit of $14.29 trillion — or even waits too long — the chain of events will be similar, but the asset under question will be America itself, not some newfangled Frankenstein bond made out of mortgages from the Reno suburbs. Which would mean the aftermath would be much, much worse. “The cornerstone of the global financial system is that the United States will make good on its debt payments,” says Mark Zandi, chief economist at Moody’s Analytics. “If we don’t, we’ve just knocked out the cornerstone, and the system will collapse into turmoil.” If we are on the opposite ends of the spectrum it's because I don't believe the collapse of American society is needed for a long term solution. But I suppose that's the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brentastic Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 (edited) I'm going to need more than your word sunshine. I also should have qualified a "modern economy". Hell, what happened in America during the great depression with gold? Any idea? The FED forced people to turn it in and it was basically illegal to own gold. So if the world's only superpower has an economy that fails, you think gold is really going to help you out? That there are going to be a bunch of "intact" economies just waiting for you and your shiny metal (that you are going to transport easily) to help you re-create wealth? Or that a huge influx of people now dumping gold onto the market will assist you in recreating wealth? (Regarding the bolded above): Yep, it was called Executive Order 6102. It is speculated by 'CONSPIRACY THEORISTS' that this gold was then moved out of Fort Knox and shipped to Europe, under the control of foreign bankers (the guys who really own the Fed). Although this has yet been proven, there have been several attempts to audit the gold in Fort Knox with no success. Furthermore, what made this Executive Order even shadier was the Gold Reserve Act of 1934. This act was put in place only 9 months after the Executive Order 6102 and changed the value of gold from $20 per troy ounce to $35 per troy ounce and because a year earlier Executive Order 6102 made it a criminal offense for U.S. citizens to own or trade gold anywhere in the world, aside from a select few (jewelers, coin collectors etc...), that means only foreigners could benefit from the 75% increase in the value of gold. Shady. Yet people like Bushwacked will convince you that believing in these 'CONSPIRACY THEORIES' is foolish. Edited April 19, 2011 by Brentastic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 Shady. Yet people like Bushwacked will convince you that believing in these 'CONSPIRACY THEORIES' is foolish. Don't target me. It isn't fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted April 20, 2011 Author Share Posted April 20, 2011 I'm going to need more than your word sunshine. I also should have qualified a "modern economy". Hell, what happened in America during the great depression with gold? Any idea? The FED forced people to turn it in and it was basically illegal to own gold. Do you think that gold will be confiscated this time around?....there's a difference between the great depression and now.....this time the entire world is playing, not to mention this is the 1st time that all the other countries are able to purchase precious metals (China has finally allowed their people to buy Precious Metals and even tells their own people to buy it) You can't compare a depression 80 years ago to what we are going through now So if the world's only superpower has an economy that fails, you think gold is really going to help you out? That there are going to be a bunch of "intact" economies just waiting for you and your shiny metal (that you are going to transport easily) to help you re-create wealth? Or that a huge influx of people now dumping gold onto the market will assist you in recreating wealth? if we fail, the entire world fails....gold and silver has been a storage of wealth - when you say "I'm going to need more than your word sunshine"....do your own research....I only believe in pointing to the area where you can find water....I can't drag you to it and bring the water to your lips by doing all the research for you (and yes, I know you directed this towards SEC)..... when you're wrong about something, do your own research on it.....don't plead ignorance by spouting what you consider to be facts like "so if the worlds only superpower has an economy that fails"....life goes on elsewhere, you just haven't done your research.... watch videos by Mike Maloney on YouTube...you might be up to speed in a few weeks... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted April 20, 2011 Author Share Posted April 20, 2011 If we are on the opposite ends of the spectrum it's because I don't believe the collapse of American society is needed for a long term solution. But I suppose that's the case. ...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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